Is it racism I don't know and is this the reason MTV and radio won't play rock music anymore.
http://www.avclub.com/twincities/art...niversi,70488/
http://www.avclub.com/twincities/art...niversi,70488/
Is this why there not much Rock music around.
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This so called "study" is nonsense.
Who are the main influences on early rock music?
Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, BB King and Jimi Hendrix.
All held in very high esteem by many rock fans.
What colour are they?
Who are the main influences on early rock music?
Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, BB King and Jimi Hendrix.
All held in very high esteem by many rock fans.
What colour are they?
Rock isn't popular at the moment, except when it comes to established rock band tours.
Dance-pop is what's in, and will be for the next few years.
Dance-pop is what's in, and will be for the next few years.
First of all, not sure why this has anything to do with whether rock music is popular or not
Secondly, seen as we don't know much about the make up of each of these groups apart from the fact that they were all white youth you can't really take much from the results.
Was there a control group that dodn't listen to any music? if so what were the results with them
What was the message in the songs people were listening to. If the main theme of the music from the black artists was about how bad their life was of course they are going to get more sympathy.
As previously mentioned, rock music has it's roots in black music anyway.
Surely if the people listening to black music gave less to white charities, isn't this also racist?
In summary, what a load of bull!
Secondly, seen as we don't know much about the make up of each of these groups apart from the fact that they were all white youth you can't really take much from the results.
Was there a control group that dodn't listen to any music? if so what were the results with them
What was the message in the songs people were listening to. If the main theme of the music from the black artists was about how bad their life was of course they are going to get more sympathy.
As previously mentioned, rock music has it's roots in black music anyway.
Surely if the people listening to black music gave less to white charities, isn't this also racist?
In summary, what a load of bull!
Rock music is popular. The singles chart doesn't accurately represent what's popular with the general public to be honest.
There are radio stations and TV channels which play rock music. Capital FM and 4Music aren't the places to go if you want to hear rock music.
The study seems a bit strange to me. I don't see any logical reason why someone who listens to rock music would be more openly racist. And even if that's actually true, the people behind radio and MTV probably don't know that. They just play the songs that get them the most viewers/listeners.
There are radio stations and TV channels which play rock music. Capital FM and 4Music aren't the places to go if you want to hear rock music.
The study seems a bit strange to me. I don't see any logical reason why someone who listens to rock music would be more openly racist. And even if that's actually true, the people behind radio and MTV probably don't know that. They just play the songs that get them the most viewers/listeners.
Originally Posted by nikproffitt:
“What was the message in the songs people were listening to. If the main theme of the music from the black artists was about how bad their life was of course they are going to get more sympathy.
Surely if the people listening to black music gave less to white charities, isn't this also racist?”
“What was the message in the songs people were listening to. If the main theme of the music from the black artists was about how bad their life was of course they are going to get more sympathy.
Surely if the people listening to black music gave less to white charities, isn't this also racist?”
In the study, it said one of the groups that didn't favour the white charity was made to listen to Fergie. She's a white artist, but she does black music (which is probably why they included her). Her songs are generally about how slutty she is lol, not about how bad her life was.
And it says none of the people listening to black music gave less to the white charity. The people listening to black music gave and equal amount to each of the ethnic groups.
I agree though. It doesn't make any sense to me that this would be the case with people who listen to rock music. I wouldn't be surprised if that study they did was just a joke tbh. Most people who listen to rock music aren't racist.
Originally Posted by Dizagaox:
“Rock isn't popular at the moment, except when it comes to established rock band tours.
Dance-pop is what's in, and will be for the next few years.”
“Rock isn't popular at the moment, except when it comes to established rock band tours.
Dance-pop is what's in, and will be for the next few years.”
I don't agree with that at all, only kids listen to dance pop music in general. Rock music is hugely popular still, just don't expect the Top 40 singles charts to reflect this, as rock bands don't release singles now as a rule.
If you look outside of the charts and what is on many threads on this site, you will see a load of rock bands selling a lot of gig tickets and doing decent album sales.
Study could have been done much better
1) Give people groups to split money between
2) Get these people to listen to different types of music
3) Give people slighlty different groups, but still with the same base causes, to split money between
4) Analyse the changes
1) Give people groups to split money between
2) Get these people to listen to different types of music
3) Give people slighlty different groups, but still with the same base causes, to split money between
4) Analyse the changes
That study is a perfect example of the fact that just because you are educated that does not mean that you are intelligent. Utter bollocks.
That's all I have to say.
That's all I have to say.
Who cares what mtv and the radio plays. There is plenty of good rock/.metal around. Maybe rock doesn't mean much when it is applied to pretty much every crappy indie band going. Just search and you will find. I go to a metal club every week and only choose to hang around people who think that way though so probably biased.
Originally Posted by mvood:
“Uh oh rock is in trouble, MTV and radio aren't playing it”
“Uh oh rock is in trouble, MTV and radio aren't playing it”
Rock does need a certain amount of media attention to maintain it's long term commercial viability to a certain extent thoughThe bands that do get media attention are not the best examples of rock music these days IMO - they tend to be one's that have alot of corporate backing rather than by the quality of the music.The marginal rock fans get the belief that there is no new rock music of quality out there & don't bother searching it out then.People who are passionate about their rock music will always search out stuff that suits their own personal taste though.
It's not cheap to go on the road - bands need a certain number of fans to make them viable.It's easier for established bands who built up a fan base when rock music had a higher media attention.One reason why so many older bands are reforming.It's a difficult world for new rock bands who haven't gained enough traction though, when the music media generally doesn't seem to be interested in them & there is a perception in certain quarters that rock music isn't popular, past it's sell by date, stopped evolving or whatever.
MTV ..... LOL
This is the second thread I've seen on DS (and there could be more) trying to get a foothold or sow the seed of doubt that Rock music is dead or dying, honestly Rock has changed in its popularity up and down since it started but its always been popular, I dont know if Rock music will ever die? but I dont think it will, like classical music I still think it will be around in one of its many forms hundreds of years from now and long after fads like hip hop and other rubbish I hear on the radio these days have long gone.
Heck, even Gary Moore who switched from Rock to a succesful blues career switched back to Celtic Rock just before he died.
This is the second thread I've seen on DS (and there could be more) trying to get a foothold or sow the seed of doubt that Rock music is dead or dying, honestly Rock has changed in its popularity up and down since it started but its always been popular, I dont know if Rock music will ever die? but I dont think it will, like classical music I still think it will be around in one of its many forms hundreds of years from now and long after fads like hip hop and other rubbish I hear on the radio these days have long gone.
Heck, even Gary Moore who switched from Rock to a succesful blues career switched back to Celtic Rock just before he died.
Originally Posted by Scratchy7929:
“Rock does need a certain amount of media attention to maintain it's long term commercial viability to a certain extent thoughThe bands that do get media attention are not the best examples of rock music these days IMO - they tend to be one's that have alot of corporate backing rather than by the quality of the music.The marginal rock fans get the belief that there is no new rock music of quality out there & don't bother searching it out then.People who are passionate about their rock music will always search out stuff that suits their own personal taste though.
It's not cheap to go on the road - bands need a certain number of fans to make them viable.It's easier for established bands who built up a fan base when rock music had a higher media attention.One reason why so many older bands are reforming.It's a difficult world for new rock bands who haven't gained enough traction though, when the music media generally doesn't seem to be interested in them & there is a perception in certain quarters that rock music isn't popular, past it's sell by date, stopped evolving or whatever.”
“Rock does need a certain amount of media attention to maintain it's long term commercial viability to a certain extent thoughThe bands that do get media attention are not the best examples of rock music these days IMO - they tend to be one's that have alot of corporate backing rather than by the quality of the music.The marginal rock fans get the belief that there is no new rock music of quality out there & don't bother searching it out then.People who are passionate about their rock music will always search out stuff that suits their own personal taste though.
It's not cheap to go on the road - bands need a certain number of fans to make them viable.It's easier for established bands who built up a fan base when rock music had a higher media attention.One reason why so many older bands are reforming.It's a difficult world for new rock bands who haven't gained enough traction though, when the music media generally doesn't seem to be interested in them & there is a perception in certain quarters that rock music isn't popular, past it's sell by date, stopped evolving or whatever.”
I disagree. Rock is clearly popular now, without the media attention, which proves that it can be popular without media attention.
Rock bands can get fans solely with their music. They don't need to be in the news all the time to get well-known, their music does it for them.
And yes, the bands that get mainstream attention aren't the best example of the genre. The same happens with dance, hip hop, pop, RnB and electronica music. The artsits you hear on the radio aren't the best examples of those genres either, so that's not as much of a problem as it may seem imo.
Originally Posted by Radiomaniac:
“Is MTV still going?
I'm too busy listening to rock music and Planet Rock to have noticed.”
“Is MTV still going?
I'm too busy listening to rock music and Planet Rock to have noticed.”
Sadly but more known for their trashy reality shows about people getting drunk or 16 year olds getting pregnant.
Originally Posted by BluesTrainRadio:
“If you look outside of the charts and what is on many threads on this site, you will see a load of rock bands selling a lot of gig tickets and doing decent album sales.”
“If you look outside of the charts and what is on many threads on this site, you will see a load of rock bands selling a lot of gig tickets and doing decent album sales.”
Established rock acts with fanbases are doing fine.
New rock acts aren't. Between the three major UK record labels, over 50 rock artists/bands were dropped in 2010/11, as the labels stopped funding their A&R.
Originally Posted by Dizagaox:
“Established rock acts with fanbases are doing fine.
New rock acts aren't. Between the three major UK record labels, over 50 rock artists/bands were dropped in 2010/11, as the labels stopped funding their A&R.”
“Established rock acts with fanbases are doing fine.
New rock acts aren't. Between the three major UK record labels, over 50 rock artists/bands were dropped in 2010/11, as the labels stopped funding their A&R.”
Pretty much this, not sure what the answer is to be honest...
The bands that are already well established seem to be doing just fine... so it proves there is still a large following out there that is still interest in rock music.
U2 and their recent 360 tour was the highest-grossing tour of all time... putting on shows for 7,272,046 people. They were pretty much selling out stadiums that hold 80,000 people and over. Mainly rock acts dominate this... U2, Rolling Stones, AC/DC but Madonna being the only pop-related act in there.
..The irony is fans of rock/heavy metal/punk/goth etc probably face more discrimination by the general public than people of colour do.
New and young Rock acts stiff make it, as I've mentioned Rock varies in popularity and now might be one of its lowest ebbs, who knows? but I never had to look far to find this thread of a new upcoming Rock act from the UK (near where I live actually) who have signed a world wide record deal ...
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18372970
I've been into Rock music since I was about 12 and I'm 52 now with no signs of slowing down and have been to many many Rock concerts, you just have to look at the average age of a Rock concert goer to determine that its hard to get an average age, there are kids in their teens to old Rockers like me at these shows and it will always be like that I reckon ... its timeless.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18372970
I've been into Rock music since I was about 12 and I'm 52 now with no signs of slowing down and have been to many many Rock concerts, you just have to look at the average age of a Rock concert goer to determine that its hard to get an average age, there are kids in their teens to old Rockers like me at these shows and it will always be like that I reckon ... its timeless.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“I disagree. Rock is clearly popular now, without the media attention, which proves that it can be popular without media attention”
“I disagree. Rock is clearly popular now, without the media attention, which proves that it can be popular without media attention”
Agree, it's clearly popular (alot of DS posters don't seem to realise this though).I did say rock still needs media attention 'to a certain extent', especially the newer bands that have clear quality, but get lost in the 'noise' of the internet.It's hard to get enough attention by relying on the internet alone & playing at smaller venues etc. to get to the next level.
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“I
And yes, the bands that get mainstream attention aren't the best example of the genre. The same happens with dance, hip hop, pop, RnB and electronica music. The artsits you hear on the radio aren't the best examples of those genres either, so that's not as much of a problem as it may seem imo.”
“I
And yes, the bands that get mainstream attention aren't the best example of the genre. The same happens with dance, hip hop, pop, RnB and electronica music. The artsits you hear on the radio aren't the best examples of those genres either, so that's not as much of a problem as it may seem imo.”
You're saying the 'traditional' music related media is basically Focked up at the moment then - don't disagree.They all need to sort their acts out
i.e. research what us music fans really want to listen or read about.Don't get me started on what the Major labels are trying to do at the moment.Intent on self destruction (as far as new music anyway) it seems to me.They seem to be relying on copyright (on old music) to keep themselves afloat more & more these days - alot of artists are claiming back their copyrights even so that's coming under pressure even http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/ar...ef=larryrohter
Originally Posted by Dizagaox:
“Established rock acts with fanbases are doing fine.
New rock acts aren't. Between the three major UK record labels, over 50 rock artists/bands were dropped in 2010/11, as the labels stopped funding their A&R.”
“Established rock acts with fanbases are doing fine.
New rock acts aren't. Between the three major UK record labels, over 50 rock artists/bands were dropped in 2010/11, as the labels stopped funding their A&R.”
The problem is that major UK record labels aren't interested in Rock acts. Because the major labels are run by accountants they are only interested in quick return, not long term investment. Boybands, girlbands, X-Factor, give quick returns in terms of sales and, as soon as their popularity fades the next big thing comes along to take their place. Rock bands give a long-term return on the investment and, over that long term, give far more in terms of revenue stream.
Now one of those models, the long term one, is sustainable, however the one the major record labels have chosen to use, the short term model, isn't.
However there are now a number of specialist Rock record labels, RoadRunner, SPV, Nuclear Blast, K-Scope, Powerage, etc, who understand this long term model and are applying it very successfully. I bet the vast majority of those bands dropped by the three major UK record labels have already been signed up, probably to one of those labels I have already mentioned.
As for new Rock acts breaking through, I've been to a number of gigs already this year and I have plenty more lined up already, but here's four off the top of my head....
Shinedown - Sold out
Rammstein - Sold out
3 Doors Down - Sold out
Black Stone Cherry - Sold out
Of those four bands Rammstein are by far the most established, however they sing almost entirely in German and so aren't an obvious candidate for UK success, but the other three would be virtually unheard of my the vast majority of mainstream audiences and yet they are selling out venues in the UK. In fact Black Stone Cherry's entire tour has already sold out.
What is holding Rock music back from more mainstream interest has nothing to do with the popularity of the bands, as can be seen they are very popular amongst Rock fans, it is the blatant snobbery of the mainstream media, TV, Radio, and Print, who steadfastly refuse to cover Rock music despite its continued popularity.
Originally Posted by Glawster2002:
“The problem is that major UK record labels aren't interested in Rock acts. Because the major labels are run by accountants they are only interested in quick return, not long term investment. Boybands, girlbands, X-Factor, give quick returns in terms of sales and, as soon as their popularity fades the next big thing comes along to take their place. Rock bands give a long-term return on the investment and, over that long term, give far more in terms of revenue stream.
Now one of those models, the long term one, is sustainable, however the one the major record labels have chosen to use, the short term model, isn't.
However there are now a number of specialist Rock record labels, RoadRunner, SPV, Nuclear Blast, K-Scope, Powerage, etc, who understand this long term model and are applying it very successfully. I bet the vast majority of those bands dropped by the three major UK record labels have already been signed up, probably to one of those labels I have already mentioned.
As for new Rock acts breaking through, I've been to a number of gigs already this year and I have plenty more lined up already, but here's four off the top of my head....
Shinedown - Sold out
Rammstein - Sold out
3 Doors Down - Sold out
Black Stone Cherry - Sold out
Of those four bands Rammstein are by far the most established, however they sing almost entirely in German and so aren't an obvious candidate for UK success, but the other three would be virtually unheard of my the vast majority of mainstream audiences and yet they are selling out venues in the UK. In fact Black Stone Cherry's entire tour has already sold out.
What is holding Rock music back from more mainstream interest has nothing to do with the popularity of the bands, as can be seen they are very popular amongst Rock fans, it is the blatant snobbery of the mainstream media, TV, Radio, and Print, who steadfastly refuse to cover Rock music despite its continued popularity.”
“The problem is that major UK record labels aren't interested in Rock acts. Because the major labels are run by accountants they are only interested in quick return, not long term investment. Boybands, girlbands, X-Factor, give quick returns in terms of sales and, as soon as their popularity fades the next big thing comes along to take their place. Rock bands give a long-term return on the investment and, over that long term, give far more in terms of revenue stream.
Now one of those models, the long term one, is sustainable, however the one the major record labels have chosen to use, the short term model, isn't.
However there are now a number of specialist Rock record labels, RoadRunner, SPV, Nuclear Blast, K-Scope, Powerage, etc, who understand this long term model and are applying it very successfully. I bet the vast majority of those bands dropped by the three major UK record labels have already been signed up, probably to one of those labels I have already mentioned.
As for new Rock acts breaking through, I've been to a number of gigs already this year and I have plenty more lined up already, but here's four off the top of my head....
Shinedown - Sold out
Rammstein - Sold out
3 Doors Down - Sold out
Black Stone Cherry - Sold out
Of those four bands Rammstein are by far the most established, however they sing almost entirely in German and so aren't an obvious candidate for UK success, but the other three would be virtually unheard of my the vast majority of mainstream audiences and yet they are selling out venues in the UK. In fact Black Stone Cherry's entire tour has already sold out.
What is holding Rock music back from more mainstream interest has nothing to do with the popularity of the bands, as can be seen they are very popular amongst Rock fans, it is the blatant snobbery of the mainstream media, TV, Radio, and Print, who steadfastly refuse to cover Rock music despite its continued popularity.”
I'm not sure Rammstein want or even need UK success, they seem to get to no.1 everywhere else..including Russia! The U.K market is probably the most lucrative after the U.S market for sure but Rammstein make up for the U.K losses in other countries.
Originally Posted by Katana1000:
“MTV ..... LOL
This is the second thread I've seen on DS (and there could be more) trying to get a foothold or sow the seed of doubt that Rock music is dead or dying, honestly Rock has changed in its popularity up and down since it started but its always been popular, I dont know if Rock music will ever die? but I dont think it will, like classical music I still think it will be around in one of its many forms hundreds of years from now and long after fads like hip hop and other rubbish I hear on the radio these days have long gone.
Heck, even Gary Moore who switched from Rock to a succesful blues career switched back to Celtic Rock just before he died.”
“MTV ..... LOL
This is the second thread I've seen on DS (and there could be more) trying to get a foothold or sow the seed of doubt that Rock music is dead or dying, honestly Rock has changed in its popularity up and down since it started but its always been popular, I dont know if Rock music will ever die? but I dont think it will, like classical music I still think it will be around in one of its many forms hundreds of years from now and long after fads like hip hop and other rubbish I hear on the radio these days have long gone.
Heck, even Gary Moore who switched from Rock to a succesful blues career switched back to Celtic Rock just before he died.”
It's not so much dead, just not in the mainstream anymore.
Originally Posted by Viscount Byron:
“I'm not sure Rammstein want or even need UK success, they seem to get to no.1 everywhere else..including Russia! The U.K market is probably the most lucrative after the U.S market for sure but Rammstein make up for the U.K losses in other countries.”
“I'm not sure Rammstein want or even need UK success, they seem to get to no.1 everywhere else..including Russia! The U.K market is probably the most lucrative after the U.S market for sure but Rammstein make up for the U.K losses in other countries.”
However the fact that their arena tour last month in the UK was a complete sell out does show they have achieved reasonable UK success.
If they didn't want it, why would they bother with an arena tour in the first place? They could have simply done a token London show.
The point I was trying to make was the four bands I listed as examples have this year sold out shows and tours, despite absolutely no interest from the mainstream, showing the ongoing popularity of Rock music in the UK.
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