the evidence provided by others in this thread contradicts what you say

how much more of a professional dancer does he have to be to make him "professional" ... he's worked all his life in dance, performing in the West End and all over the world not only dancing himself but teaching and choreographing ... and has judged on numerous shows

And his marking on Cirque was pretty unreliable too. Like there, he gets confused whether he is marking the choregraphy or the performance of the routine. He can't act much himself (or rather he can only act as himself) and is often inconsistent marking the acting - or ignores it - or misses the point - or expects something done as he would do it. He marks the dancing trivia without marking the rest of the performance, and has narrowed his scope to miss most of whats important to an audience. He has past history of marking people compared to their last performance, and his expectations of them - and not what they do relative to a common scale or anyone else. He just doesn't mark a whole performance to any stable standard, and his marks and comments seem all too often about who he fancies, rather than how well they have done.

Jason, in between the unacceptable rudeness, actually did have a marking standard and did better marking the males objectively. Now we seem to have the worst of both worlds. People were turning off because things are now duller, but now we have silly controversial marking for effect from a panel thats produced even more bizarre marks than the previous problematic ones with Karen, Ruthie, Nicky or Emma managed.

BIB Have you ever actually seen him perform in person on a stage to make that accusation or are you simply going off what you have seen on a few tv programmes where he is not actually acting a role anyway? What you see on screen is different from his actual performing job and even taking out the previous tv judging roles he is still more than qualified to pass comment on the dance and performance side of DOI.

He gave one low mark and IMO he justified it perfectly well. All this outcry just because the forum favourite wasn't the star of the show for once. Had it been reversed and Jennifer had been given that routine and got a 6.5 from Louie there would not have been a bad word said about him in fact you would all have been praising him.

well seeing as he was implying he fancied Matt Evers the other week then he slipped up with his marking last night .. plus I remember earlier in the series when he gave Matthew W a lower mark than some of the others he was accused on here for just giving him low marks because he was jealous that Matt got a job in the West End that Louie also went for .... it seems he can't win

perhaps he's actually marking on what he sees and what he likes instead of all these stupid conspiracy theories ... I suppose when he gave Chemmy 8.5 last night it was because he fancied Sean?

I find it interesting how Katarina often makes remarks about fancying some of the boys but when she gives them high marks it's never discussed that it's "because she fancies them"

also how do you know that Louie can't act .. have you ever seen him in anything to give an example of how he can't act?

Just so Im understanding you,are you saying his mark is justified based on the fact that the routine bored him which was his ludicrius justification.

I cannot stand Chico but had he given Chico such a poor score then I would still have been saying its a joke.
The routine is the work of T&D is it not?
The prop choise is down to T&D is it not?
Jorgie controlled her prop to perfection,she danced and skated the routine almost perfect and was graceful and elegant in her performance.
The prop given is said to be one of the hardest props to work with,and yet Louis gives her 1 whole point less than one of Andys routines previously,the margin of the point gap was far too wide..he seems to have totally disregarded the 7 or 7.5 mark.

he didn't just mark on that .... he said that he thought it lacked performance and emotion compared to what Jorgie usually does .. he said he wasn't wowed by her performance and thought that it was lacking .... seeing as he's there to mark on performance I think that that justifies his opinion (even if other's don't agree with him or think he marked low, it's his right to have an opinion as that's what he's there for, not to give the marks that people want him to give according to their opinions)

That makes his marking even stranger.
Compared to how she usually performs?
Has she performed with a prop before?
Did he feel Andy put a whole points more emotion into the 7.5 he gave Andy in a previous show?
Is he only voting based on performance? If so this is wrong,whilst he has no knowledge of skating he could see she did not falter or stumble,she did not drop her prop or get it tangled..in fact everyone else said she handled it well.
Is it Jorgies fault she got a routine that involved very little if any storytelling?
The others had several props and a comedic routine,should they be rewarded and Jorgie penalised for T&Ds decisions on routine and props?

Thank you diamond1 you've pretty much put what I was going to in response to that post. He is entitled to say he found the routine boring why should he give it a 9 etc if he was bored by it? The whole point of the performance is to capture the judges as much as the skating skills so therefore he was not captured by the performance and therefore yes he can use that as part justification for his points.

I found the routine boring so it was executed perfectly but there was nothing in it. There was no expression or emotion from Jorgie and it was almost as if she couldn't really be bothered doing it and IMO and as others have said there was more that could have been done with the ribbon. Even something as simple as changing arms with it rather than it just being held up in one hand and not just trailing behind her when skating there could have been more done and I would have expected more from the routine so I can see why Louie expected more from it too.

The judges mark on execution, yes, but they also award them marks based on difficulty and performance levels. If she executed it well but didn't perform well (because there was no performance in the routine) or do anything particularly difficult (because there was nothing difficult in there) then she couldn't get a high mark.

I haven't seen her performance though so I can't comment on whether I personally think it's justified.

Echo this.

performing with or without a prop makes no difference to how you could mark "performance" ....he demonstrated how he thought her actual perfrmance "level" was substandard to what he would expect from her .... it had nothing to do with what prop she had .... he obviously felt that the others performed and acted their routines better (regardless of content/choreography)

For what it's worth I thought that Jen's choreography was lacking greatly in skating but she did "perform" it well as did all the others . for me Jorgie looked a bit vacant and detached throughout her routine and I agree with Louie that the way she worked the ribbon was a bit lacklustre and emotionless

of course both the props allocated and the choreography aren't the skaters responsibility but the judges have to mark on what they see being performed and mark according to their opinions .. especially if they're makring on performance ... it would be pointless for them to say "I didn't think that was a good performance, I wasn't keen on the way you used the prop and I didn't enjoy it but you were given a crap routine so I'll give you a 9"

That is his perogative to do so, isn't it?? Why oh why should he had given her a 7 or 7.5 if he thought the performance was 'boring' and not Jorgie's usual good standard??

But that doesn't stop the judges scoring Jen high, her performances are never difficult, performed well maybe. Louie is a joke, he is supposed to be marking on performance, Jorgie's performed her routine well, yet he marked her 6.5.

In your opinion but obviously not in his ..... people will agree or disagree with him but he's entitle to his own opinion and just because it doesn't go along with other's it doesn't make it wrong or right

and thank goodness my opinion is different from his. He has given the Corrie lad higher marks than he did Jorgie last night. The mad is a joke. He has overmarked Jen for weeks.

Absolutely not...

You're not the only one who's confused. You admit that Jen performs well and that Louie is supposed to mark on performance but then criticise him for giving Jen a high score.

You really do seem confused.

In YOUR opinion maybe but not others. Are you a professional skater/dancer or have any huge amount of knowledge in either aspect?

Do you watch professional shows on a regular basis to even remotely know what you are talking/waffling on about??

Louie knows what hes talking about, what he gave Jorgie this week cannot be compared to what he gave Andy in previous shows as its not relevent to this weeks show, who knows what he may have scored Andy had he been there this week, Jorgies scores were relevent for THIS weeks show only.

Louis is entitled to his opinion (no one said he wasn't), and I am entitled to my opinion that his comments and marks were despicable nonsense.

Scores from other weeks show a great deal about the quality and competence of the judging and so are very relevant.

And Louis might know what he's talking about in some contexts, but he wasn't using knowledge last night: he was just going by his personal, subjective reaction -- or, worse, was trying to be controversial enough as a Jason replacement to ensure he's offered a judging position next year.

I'm a skater having competed at the british national championships in Sheffield...and I can say that I believe Veri's points are absolutely correct, and Louie's marks were awful and so incorrect.

Also...Torvill and Dean said this as well, and don't bother trying to say Louie knows more about skating than Torvill and Dean :P :P

Louis didn't say it was lacking in ribbon moves. Indeed, his complaint was that it was all about the ribbon. Doing more with the ribbon would not make it less about the ribbon.

But she did change arms with the ribbon -- more than once.

And where has this obviously false meme that she just trailed it behind her when skating come from? Are people just carrying it over from one post to another without re-watching to check whether it's actually true? (It isn't.)

Re the theory that there was no expression, I saw expression, and I seem to have a better memory of what was in the routine than those who think there wasn't any.

I think it's very telling that so many of the posts that say the routine was lacking are plainly wrong about what was in the routine.

1) I don't think we can compare the scoring on DOI to any sort of professional show. Apart from the fact that there are judges to mark the performance of skaters, there's no similarity between the two.

2) Do they have performance judges in professional skating who are just there to mark the dance element? If not, then that's another reason not to compare the marking systems.

3) I hardly think, having choreographed the routine and as the primary mentors on the show, T&D are going to break the habit of seven series and come out saying 'yeah, that was rubbish' on air.

I'm glad you're a skater gazb2 - the terrible thought occurred that you might actually have to spell and punctuate for a living, in which case I'd be seriously worried about your ability to survive

That's what she was doing when she was doing the forward skating. It was simply trailing her - made me think she was trying to carry the Olympic torch. Don't think anyone's said that was all she ever did. But the rest of the twirling was when she was stationary (and I include the pushing herself around on one foot in this) or when already in Matts arms.

People also seem to be confusing 'performing a routine competently' i.e doing what you are given to a reasonable standard and 'performing' a routine in the sense I believe Louie looks for, in the way of getting across emotions or a story to an audience and projecting out to the audience. There is a heck of a difference between those two things.

Jorgie managed the first - well she didn't have anything terribly technically difficult to do but contrary to her usual style she did not on this occasion manage the second.

And yes I am a skater who also competes and I agree with Louie.

I apologize...I thought this was a forum, not an English Language class. If it means a lot to you, I will punctuate and spell to your standard...and I hope your sophomoric self can keep up.

1) No, you can't compare the skating to a professional standard. However, you may compare to previous shows. Why would this be unsatisfactory?

2) You surprisingly make a valid point - congratulations! So why is he on the panel? This maybe an explanation in to his pathetic scoring on Sunday evening.

3) I don't have the time to bother arguing with you over this point. Torvill and Dean have been in the business for a long time and know what they are talking about. Oh, but of course you probably think you know better? Nice try...goodbye!