The post didn't distinguish times when she was forward skating from the rest. It just said it was trailing behind her "when skating". I am aware that there is also a claim about when she was forward skating, but so far you are the only poster I've seen make it, and (so far as I know) even you didn't make it at first but only after it was pointed out that she often did more than let it trail.

I haven't checked whether the claim about her simply trailing it when forward skating is true, because it seems a relatively minor matter.


But the rest of the twirling was not only when she was stationary or when in Matt's arms. And your idea that her skating backwards and turning fully around while moving counts as "stationary" is very odd, to say the least.

But perhaps you don't remember those turns and the "pushing herself around on one foot" is something else? That's the best I can do at making sense of it.


I haven't seen anyone make that confusion.

His "justification" was just that he (personally) found it dull -- he gave no justification for that view, just asserted it in various different wordings -- and that 6.5 was for executing it cleanly.


Similarly, all the agreement with Louis could be from people who dislike Jorgie (or dislike her popularity). But surely such things aren't really true. I like Jennifer too, for example, and would still have been annoyed if it had been reversed.

I'm quoting this only because it contains two mistaken claims I haven't seen before.

Jorgie actually did a lot of skating backwards, including quick, little 360 degree turns (some call them spins, but I know icedragon seems to have a technical objection to that): it wasn't forward skating, lift, more forward skating.

Nor is it true (not even close) that the only time she moved it was when her feet weren't on the ice (or that when she actually had to skate the ribbon was simply left to stream out behind her or was held by her and Matt together).

Based on a good number of posts from different people, there seems to be a high correlation between thinking the routine was dull or lacking in content and failing to notice (or else to remember) what was actually in it.

I'm sure people can tighten up the false claims about what was in the routine while still maintaining that it was dull, but they will still have formed the opinion while under a mistaken impression of what was in the routine.

T&D may have huge amounts of credibility and be the best this country has, but that does not make them infallible, that does not mean they cannot get it wrong.

With Jorgies routine last Sunday, I think they got it wrong, very wrong.

I was annoyed that Jorgie was at the bottom of the leaderboard, I actually think Jen should have been with Jorgie a place above her.

I wasn't annoyed that Louie put her there, I agreed with much of what he said, I was annoyed that the show gave her that routine and that Chris in particular was so self absorbed that he couldn't even accept that the routine he designed was lackluster in practice, instead opting to throw "no... just no" at Louie (which I've only really heard teenagers say online but thats irrelevant to the point).

How technical do you expect Louie to word the routine was dull and boring which it was. He is the dance and performance judge therefore if he finds the performance boring that is justification enough for him to mark it down. If he started commenting on the skating then fine I would expect him to give more valid reason but from his performance perspective there was nothing there. He did explain what his problem was i.e he expected more to happen and there to be bigger movements with her arms and so on so he gave an explanation as to why he found it boring but he is entitled to say that yes it being boring from the performance level is sufficient to mark the score down.

I dislike Jorgie but that is not my reason for agreeing with Louie I have watched the routine back and still find it boring there is no emotion from Jorgie and IMO she is not putting 100% into performing it she and again it is IMO is only going through the motions of doing the routine. While I dislike her I acknowledge in her previous routines she put a bit of effort in and that just seemed to go this week and that is as much why I agree with him not for the sake of simply disliking Jorgie and that would go for anyone if Louie said something I disagreed with even if it was about someone I dislike then I would say so.

I didn't say Louis had to be technical. That the routine was dull and boring is a subjective opinion, not a fact; and if a judge finds something dull or boring, they should be able to explain why not just repeat the assertion in different words.


No, it isn't.


He's entitled to say whatever he wants, and I'm entitled to say it was despicable rubbish.

He didn't say anything about bigger movements with her arms in his first two attempts to justify his mark, and when he did finally come up with it, it was ridiculous as a justification for 6.5,

If you honestly think that what he says is despicable rubbish and that the score was ridiculous then then you are maybe reading a bit too much into it. You are more than entitled to your opinion and to disgaree with his but with the reactions to his score of Jorgie anyone would think he had said "off with her head" etc. He is entitled to word it how he wants and doesn't actually have to give a totally detailed justification of the ins and outs of his decision. It wasn't hugely that far out had it been lower than he had given then fair enough I would have expected more of an explanation but no one complained when Jason didn't give a fully detailed explanation of his low scores. Most of his were merely personal insults but people seemed to accept that as reason enough behind his low scoring.
Last edited by Tiggergirl : 13-03-2012 at 17:17

Louie could have put his reasons across more specifically but when everyone around you is reacting as though you've just decapitated a kitten I would imagine its easier said than done.

And not everyone who agrees with him dislikes Jorgie, I want a Jorgie vs Matt final and don't care which of the two wins. Would have liked Chemmy to be 3rd.

re BIB - you have the cheek to say this when you admitted earlier you didn't bother to check whether the claims were true because in your opinion it was a minor matter. I dont' think it was minor, there was a lot of forward skating and trailing in there.

[/BI
So if other people make claims you don't like then they should have checked but you seem to think you don't need to because they must be wrong if it's not what you remember? eh?

Its not his job. Its actually unclear what his job is - as he seems to define it as not the skating but just the dancing, and, alternatively, talks about the whole performance. He's shown no apptitude to comment on acting and has no qualifications there, and he's often defined risk and excitement as things for the skaters to judge, and gone on to talk about hands.

If he does decide for once to comment on the whole performance, he has to do it so that he doesn't just assume that it should be done as he would do it. Its not his job to point out there is no story being portrayed, when there is no story, or the routine is dull when thats the only routine there is. He can't even claim that the dance should be done differently, when the T and D and coaches have directed the performer to do it some other way. You can't have someone judging a performer without knowing how the performer has been told to perform the routine, or what the choregrapher intended. Its as absurd as giving someone half marks at GSCE because you thought the questions to easy, or ctiticising an actor for doing what their director told them to. If he hasn't got anything good to say about the choregraphy, and wants to keep his job, he ought to give the same mark as Robin and keep quiet.

I just have to disagree with this. You can so judge a performance, any performance, without knowing what the performer has been told.

You don't go and watch a play and think to yourself - well I can't say if the actor was any good because maybe he'd been told to play it that way. You know when you are drawn into a performance be it a funny one, an emotional one or whatever or alternatively if the performance has left you cold because it lacked a connection to the audience or it seemed as tiggergirl put it that the person appeared to be 'just going through the motions'.

It's the same with dance - if you watch Got to Dance you will know that some performers can be technically great but leave you feeling 'so what' while others can be a bit messy but afterwards you think 'wow' that was great because the performance fizzed with energy and sparkle or touched you emotionally.

It was that side of the performance that Jorgie appeared to lack whether it was due to the prop or whatever it still came across as a lacklustre performance. Pretty sure no-one would have said to Jorgie - go out and give a lacklustre performance. Mostly she has been good at that side of it but on Sunday Louie and plenty of others felt it wasn't there.

Louie's perfectly qualified to comment and judge on performance and how they "act" the routine ... it's not like skaters are receiting a script, they're acting out a routine .. which is what he's been doing as a job since attenting Italia Conte and getting West End roles since he was a kid

He;s there to comment on the actual performance and like he said he didn't think that Jorgie performed this week as well as she did in previous weeks and implied that their could have been more emotion and that she could have finished off her lines better

Let's not forget he was the first judge to give a 9 this year and that was for Jorgie's Falling Slowly performance which was beautiful and well acted and Louie praised her for that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUnh...feature=fvwrel

That's my problem, nobody was complaining about the 9 from Louie, but now people are complaining about the 6.5. He doesn't look for the same things as Robin and Katharina. People are of course entitled to disagree with him (for high or low marks), but it doesn't change the fact that ITV have made it clear that he is the perfomance judge. If he finds it dull and he thought she didn't extend her arms enough, and that her concentration showed in her body and face, then clearly that's enough explanation.

I've always admitted that I don't know about skating, and I like Jorgie (although her breathless speaking is starting to grate on me now). However, her routine was dull IMO, be it because of her expression of it, or the choreography etc. It was just dull to watch, I was waiting for something to happen. Furthermore, the whole "false jeopardy production" with "will Matt catch the ribbon, and can she throw it" went highly on my nerves. Similar to the Stobbard reality TV, "will they make it in time":yawn::sleep:

yeah that sort of thing bugs me about the show too .... they always make too much in the VT of one trick as if the whole routine revolves around them doing that particular move and that we should all be looking out for it (ie the headbanger, the back sommersault throw, the frog lift etc) and they always show footage of the dress rehearsal where the couple "still" can't get it right ... but surprise surprise they always do it on the night

Yeah I agree, and I have come to believe that most of their footage about them "still" not being able to do certain moves is generally recorded early in the week, but they like to make out its still happening. Occasionally theres a muck up in the dress rehearsal and no doubt they love it cos its more fuel to the fire if it goes wrong just before the "big night".

I think they deliberately "mess up" the trick in one of the run throughs (or specificlly record a mess up separate from the actual run through) of the dress rehearsal in order to use it in the final VT

Did Katarina give 6.5 to Matthew one week, when he had a back injury? If not, I'm sure his marks were lower that week. Wasn't such a fuss about it though!

yes she gave him a 6.5 when Robin gave him an 8 and Louie gave him an 8.5

....and Louie gave Matthew a 6 one week when Robin gave him an 8 and Katarina gave him 7.5 (although I do remember some people saying that Louie must have done that as he was jealous of Matthew getting a West End role that Louie had also auditioned for years ago )

Thanks, I thought so.

Still can't understand why there's all this fuss about Jorgie receiving this mark though. It's not a big deal and the judges are entitled to their opinion.