Ofcom have agreed to let Everything Everywhere re-farm some of their 1800MHz spectrum for LTE.

This is subject to the other operators comments which of course will be negative, but surely its a good thing to get LTE in the UK before 2015 from at least ONE provider!

Negative comments already via Vodafone!

"It comes as a surprise that the regulator is now considering giving the largest player in the market permission to use its existing spectrum for 4G services before the rules for the auction have even been concluded or it has divested spectrum as required by the European Commission," a spokeswoman said.

"We seriously doubt that consumers' best interests will be served by giving one company a significant head start before any of its competitors have a clear path to 4G."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17355399


Could drag on for years with legal challenges

Oh, poor Vodafone. If only they had some spectrum which they were able to refarm for 4G.


Oh wait, they do. They can also buy the 1800Mhz spectrum that EE are having to divest, if they're so concerned at being left behind.

Ofcom have not approved anything yet, the thread title is utterly misleading.

Ofcom have agreed in principle that EE should be allowed to deliver LTE using 1800MHz but have given all networks 4 weeks to submit their opinions for consideration.

Allowing EE to refarm 1800MHz for LTE will provide them with a massive advantage to capture mobile data users.

The big loser will be 3 UK who have made a heavy pitch with 3G on 2100MHz but thats the only spectrum they have. O2 and Vodafone who might dispute the move by EE also have some 1800MHz they could refarm.

It's good that companies want to invest to deliver new technology solutions but Vodafone have a fair point in their initial reaction re this development and that is that EE are the single biggest operator in the UK and have yet to divest the required amount of 1800MHz spectrum they agreed to to become a single company. Vodafone also state that this change in advance of the auction of 850 and 2600 MHz spectrum is potentailly unfair on other operators. So perhaps Ofcom should put a condition on EE that they have had to divest their agreed 1800MHz bandwidth and wait for a period until the new buyer has time to make arrangements for coverage.

Valid points perhaps but Vodafone and O2 can use their 1800MHz to compete with LTE pending Ofcom approval and refarm their 900Mhz also for HSPA+ 42Mbs if they decide to. 900MHz 3G would be far more robust than any others on 2100MHz.

The biggest loser is 3 UK with only 2100MHz spectrum presently but they will probably not make much fuss as they have made such a mess trying to compete and remain bottom of the chart of mobile operators in terms of customer satisfaction and complaints escalated to Ofcom 9 years after launching their service.

Despite all the argument I think EE will get approval to roll out 1800MHz LTE as Ofcom want to see progress more than anything else for consumers.

Agree the title is misleading but good news if EE get granted it anyway.

I doubt Three will argue you though because of the MBNL agreement.

Three have their own frequencies so won't be in the slightest affected by anything MBNL do with their 1800Mhz. The networks use their own frequency even though they share MBNL equipment, the signals that are transmitted are separate and even at different power output etc.

Three already have more spectrum that T-mobile or Orange separately, meaning potentially more capacity. As part of the merger EE need to sell some spectrum, they have obviously decided that it's probably going to be 2100Mhz that they will sell a block of, I doubt it will raise much money and no idea who will buy it.

Three will bid when the main LTE frequencies go up for bidding. Wave will always try and make Three out to be the losers or victims or paint a worst case picture.

It's only 2 years until LTE will be up and running, and people are still getting in to mobile data, 50% of customers don't even have 3G and LTE take up will take a while. I doubt somebody being 12 months ahead of time with an LTE release for mobile dongle's only will be that much of an advantage in the long run.

I can only image they are going to kick all orange customers on to 2100Mhz t-mobile frequencies provided by MBNL and re-farm the 1800Mhz for orange, thereby stopping or seriously limiting Orange 2G.

I don't think O2 or Vodafone will be able to provide LTE on 900Mhz as it's in use for 2G and O2 in particular still heavily relies on 2G coverage, they have already re-farmed 900Mhz for 3G in some places so there's no way it'll stretch any further.

The MBNL agreement has nothing to do with 3's position re bandwidth. That is a joint venture to provide a radio access network and 3 have to consider their commercial position and how any change might affect their ability to attract cusotmers to their service. EE have more 2100MHz spectrum than 3 have and a huge amount of 1800MHz despite having to divest some. They need it with 27 million cusomers it could be argued!

3 UK are unique in only having access to 2100MHz whilst EE have that plus 1800MHz, Vodafone and O2 have 900 plus 1800 and 2100MHz bandwidth available. For as long as 900 and 1800 were used for voice and SMS 3 had little to worry about as they have as much 2100MHz as any others but refarming changes the market dramatically and whilst there will be opportunities for new spectrum for all the biggest networks have more scope to expand what they already have.

3 have some options. They could buy EE's 1800MHz spectrum but that is for the highest bidder and 3's parent company have not been paying premium prices in markets to expand lately. They could wait and hope to win some spectrum at auction but they might be outbid as they were in Italy for the most lurative 850MHz range. Or they could do a deal and get out of the UK market altogeter as a single player. They could do a deal to take some equity in another company in exchange for their assets as they did with Vodafone in Austrailia.

The mobile telecoms market in the UK has been very competitive and that has worked well for customers. The regulator knows that giving a single network an advantage forces others to up their game so perhaps that is what Ofcom have in mind. They did exactly that when 3G was auctioned and gave 3 UK the biggest piece of the pie.

I expect further comeptiton might tip the balance and force 3's parent company to divest and take a share of profit from a much safer bet as a shareholder of a bigger operatior. Maybe not the best news for customers but there are competing technologies offering other LTE services so Ofcom might be prepared to have three UK mobile networks and MVNOs which is common in most European countries and has achieved similar price reductions for customers.

You've been wrong every other time you've trashed Three, if we'd listened to you they would have exited the UK, gone bust, caught fire and burned down by now, instead of become the UK's fastest growing network. With respect I won't be taking on board your thoughts, seeing as they are just negative rants / bashing towards the network usually.

Usual personalisation as expected. no counter argument or logic beyond the sad repitition of a mobile operators marketing slogan!

I challenge anyone to go to the search, put your name in and 'Three / 3' and select the mobile section. They will see how much investment you've made in an ongoing campaign over 7 years, thousands of posts all dedicated to everything you can possibly think of to target a certain network.

The results speak for themselves, nothing better to do than look up reasons to come on to Digital Spy and start or post something into a 3 bashing rant, day in, day out.

We've had it all, they are going to sell, the CEO says this, customer service this. Never anything balanced or positive.

There is nothing to suggest that HWL will sell up. Their network is growing, is finally making an annual profit and while they are currently in the weakest position re: spectrum, this isn't a surprise and has been the case for many years.

To assert that they are about to sell up is a folly, especially considering there haven't been any rumours about them doing so for years now.

That is subjective and has no bearing on the quality of the contribuition being made on this thread.

One could easily highlight others who have spent considerable effort promoting and apologising for certain networks.

As things stand I am interetsed in discussing the marketplace for mobile communications and it's future in the UK and feel that is now being compromised by stalking and constant personalistaion which if it continues I will alert to the moderation staff at Digital Spy who can decide how to deal with it as such posting behaviour is in breach of their published terms and conditions.

Well here's a tip for the mods if you do alert them, I hope they do this...

Go to advanced search, put in wavejockglw in the right hand box and 3 in the left hand box and select the mobile section.

Mods you will see the 1000's of posts where it's bash after bash, from one thing to the next, to the next from a user which is just using Digital Spy as a mouthpiece for their hate of a particular company and doing nothing but post the same links over and over again as part of a campaign to bash or target a particular company repeatedly.

It doesn't help with genuine and sensible discussion at all.

The point is that the market is changing and a company's prospects can be very different when conditions are altered. Who can say what is happening behind the scenes in Hong Kong right now? Did the staff at Vodafone or Three in Austailia think they would be merged? I don't recall anyone making such a prediction. Those deals happen when companies recognise they have a better chance working together than competing and if EE get LTE on 1800MHz and O2 and Vodafone have 900MHz to refarm to UMTS perhaps Hutchison might well throw their lot in with another in the UK to avoid further expense competing with three much larger rivals.

A theory of course but a fairly logical one considering the state of play and that 3 UK has had £12 billion invested in it and returned only a few million on paper to date. Li Ka Shing is a shrewd businessman and will not be excluding any options to make something of his company's massive investment in the UK mobile market for the second time.

You are right Wilt there is nothing to suggest this and nothing like this has been reported. If anything HWL have expanded with the purchase of Orange in Austria and shown interest in acquiring more mobile companies in Europe like O2's network in Ireland even though O2 say it's not for sale.

It's speculation with absolutely no foundation.

£12billion that HWL will never get back unless they stick with the network and play the long game. If they were attempting to make a quick profit they would have cut their losses and gone years ago. They didn't, and as far as I am aware there have been no major changes in the HWL board as of late. Why would there be a sudden change of strategy?

..... making things personal and continually attempting to label contributers because their opinions don't concur.

I have asked politely that the stalking and personalistaion ceases or I will be forced to ask DS to act on their published terms and conditions.

From DS Posting Guidelines:

What isn't acceptable

"Arguments that contain personal remarks and/or pointless attacks on people or things are boring, often disruptive, and will be removed. Your posting privileges will be revoked."

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472951

The above should be sufficiently clear.

There is abosolutely no prospect to get £12 billion back in any reasonable business timescale!

They have gambled a lot of the profit they made on establishing Orange in the UK on 3 but the market has changed and they got it badly wrong for years re 3G.

The best HWL can hope for is to exit with some dignity and get a share in something.

As a stand alone 3 UK has no hope of recovering the investment. It has cut its costs by sharing transmission why is it such a wild notion that they wouldn't pitch their lot in with another and share the bigger company?

"Arguments that contain personal remarks and/or pointless attacks on people or things are boring, often disruptive, and will be removed. Your posting privileges will be revoked."

I've moved your bold tag to reflect the content of YOUR posts.

You've taken a thread about a completely different topic and spun it so that you can attack Three.

Spot on Dave, I hope the mods consider this as well as it's become so regular and constant that you can clearly see it from the posting history. Attack after attack of the same network over and over in almost every post in the mobile forums.

As I said It doesn't help with genuine and sensible discussion at all. Personal remarks and/or pointless attacks on people or things are boring, often disruptive, and will be removed

Anyone can see from the posting history in the mobile section the constant attacks of the same mobile network over and over by the user.

I've not insulted or abused the user intentionally I just want to highlight this constant bashing so that hopefully it can be dealt with and we can have some sensible and ordinary debate, rather than disruptive bashing over and over.

I don't do personalised remarks. I address issues and post general responses to those intent on making things personal.

Sad that those who loose arguments consistantly have to resort to personal attacks. Speaks volumes about intellectual ability and I agree with DS that it's not constructive on a discussion forum.

There is nothing pointless about discussing businesses and their prospects without reference to any other contributers. That is the key factor that appears to have been lost by some argument losers and zealots who have a blinklered single network support agenda.

Now hopefully the 3 network support team will go away and let this thread continue to discuss the EE 1800MHz proposition and it's impications for the UK mobile market and it's customers.

I don't think any of us here are qualified to define a 'reasonable business timescale'.

At the end of the day, if Three were still posting annual losses and were not improving at all then I may have been inclined to agree that HWL might choose to cut their losses.

However, considering that Three are now turning an annual profit, have found their marketing 'niche', are growing quickly, and has the prospect of grabbing some decent 800Mhz spectrum in the near future, then it makes absolutely no sense for HWL to sell at this stage.

I really don't like Three as a company, but I don't like to see people posting incorrect facts in these forums (by which, I mean all of Digital Spy).

Nice, considering you were the first person to mention 3 in this thread, you then continued to bash or be negative about the company in many respects and then wonder why several forum members are challenging incorrect, inaccurate or unfounded speculation and bashing in-line with the vast majority of your anti-3 posts in the mobile forum.

You quoted the forum rules earlier in the thread which say "Arguments that contain personal remarks and/or pointless attacks on people or things are boring, often disruptive, and will be removed. Your posting privileges will be revoked."

You've conducted personal attack after personal attack about the 3 network, which you can clearly see from your posting history if the mods or whoever want to go and look. It's constant, you are now attacking other forum members and naming them "the 3 support team" for picking you up on your bashing.