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Old 16-03-2012, 14:08
zoepaulpenny
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here is a question?? my work mate started work at a school as a cleaner 12 months ago..
they did an enhanced CBR check on him, they found out he had a caution for theft..
and after 5 years it still appeared on his record.. he was sacked..
should the caution still appear after 5 years??
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:13
woodbush
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He obviously didn't declare it on his job application.

Here is the answer though.

Quote:
Cautions

Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)

Link
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:13
d0lphin
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Deleted - I mis-read caution as conviction.
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:01
zoepaulpenny
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He obviously didn't declare it on his job application.

Here is the answer though.

Quote:
Cautions

Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)

Link
THANKS FOR ADVICE, although his caution was 5 years ago, his is still on records, and stated as such..
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Old 16-03-2012, 15:03
woodbush
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THANKS FOR ADVICE, although his caution was 5 years ago, his is still on records, and stated as such..
Did he declare it on his job application?
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Old 16-03-2012, 21:21
pognog2
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Spent convictions or cautions still turn up on an enhanced check not always on a basic one, however once they are spent they do not need to be declared on application forms unless it asks for them to be
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Old 16-03-2012, 21:30
pjw1985
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what about if you're arrested and only given a penalty ticket, but your prints, DNA and phto are taken and placed on the police national computer?
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Old 19-03-2012, 23:51
zoepaulpenny
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Did he declare it on his job application?
no i dont think he did??? he thought it would not be disclosed.
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Old 20-03-2012, 00:39
woodbush
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no i dont think he did??? he thought it would not be disclosed.

Sadly that's where he went wrong.
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Old 20-03-2012, 09:27
Tom_Tit
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Everything is dicslosed on an enhanced CRB. All spent and unspent convictions.

It will still be there in another 50 years.
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Old 20-03-2012, 09:39
simonp820
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Everything is dicslosed on an enhanced CRB. All spent and unspent convictions.

It will still be there in another 50 years.
Yep - sadly this is the case. An offence becomes spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act but an enhanced CRB check doesn't care about that and will show every caution, conviction, and related complaints for the rest of your life.
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Old 20-03-2012, 10:30
fainéant
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Sadly that's where he went wrong.
True enough but it was understandable if he truly thought it was spent. Sounds like he would not have got the job in the first place anyway even if he had disclosed it.
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Old 20-03-2012, 13:36
zoepaulpenny
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Everything is dicslosed on an enhanced CRB. All spent and unspent convictions.

It will still be there in another 50 years.
will it even disclose a conditional discharge, that happened over 30 years ago??? and any offences he committed under the age of 13
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Old 20-03-2012, 13:46
Tom_Tit
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will it even disclose a conditional discharge, that happened over 30 years ago??? and any offences he committed under the age of 13
Yes. Everything is revealed on an enhanced CRB.
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Old 20-03-2012, 13:49
Daedroth
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Any convictions, spent or unspent, will appear on an enhanced CRB. They will do for the rest of your life.
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Old 20-03-2012, 13:51
DEmmerson
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Interestingly enough, this website suggests that even if you did not disclose a spent conviction, and after a year's employment are sacked because of it, there are grounds for unlawful dismissal.

https://nextstep.direct.gov.uk/HelpA...nvictions.aspx

The fact they only performed a CRB check after employment started suggests that he was never asked the question in the first place so could claim that he was not informed that the post was exempt from the 1974 Act and therefore did not have to disclose any spent convictions.

Based on what you have told us, the employer could be on sticky ground on this one.
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Old 20-03-2012, 13:56
zoepaulpenny
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Interestingly enough, this website suggests that even if you did not disclose a spent conviction, and after a year's employment are sacked because of it, there are grounds for unlawful dismissal.

https://nextstep.direct.gov.uk/HelpA...nvictions.aspx

The fact they only performed a CRB check after employment started suggests that he was never asked the question in the first place so could claim that he was not informed that the post was exempt from the 1974 Act and therefore did not have to disclose any spent convictions.

Based on what you have told us, the employer could be on sticky ground on this one.
i will inform my mate at work tonight.. the school that sacked him, may get away with it. not sure he wants to proceed!!
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Old 20-03-2012, 14:03
davidmcn
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Interestingly enough, this website suggests that even if you did not disclose a spent conviction, and after a year's employment are sacked because of it, there are grounds for unlawful dismissal.
Only if the job wasn't exempt from the Act - and as almost all jobs in schools are exempt from the Act, the question is really whether or not the employer made that clear.

I suspect that, at best, the OP's friend may have overlooked this information or misunderstood the question, which probably won't help him much. It's still going to look like he lied in the job application, which arguably is worse than the fact he has something on his record.
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Old 20-03-2012, 14:16
zoepaulpenny
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Only if the job wasn't exempt from the Act - and as almost all jobs in schools are exempt from the Act, the question is really whether or not the employer made that clear.

I suspect that, at best, the OP's friend may have overlooked this information or misunderstood the question, which probably won't help him much. It's still going to look like he lied in the job application, which arguably is worse than the fact he has something on his record.
thanks for the info ..
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Old 21-03-2012, 14:29
DEmmerson
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It all depends on whether he was asked about convictions at the time of appointment. If he wasn't told at the time of starting that the job was exempt from the 1974 Act, and he wasn't asked to disclose spent convictions on the application form, then being asked a year later to have a CRB check and being sacked because of what it has revealed could be unfair dismissal, especially as the offence is not directly related to the job.

I'm not an HR expert but unless your friend knowingly concealed something that would have a direct influence on their employability for the job at the time of appointment, the employer cannot then just sack them. A caution for theft (not a conviction?) once spent (5 years) is no grounds to refuse or discriminate someone for - else what is the point of convictions being spent?

However, in an application process, it is very easy to find non-discriminatory reasons to choose the 'safer' person. But it may be different in your friend's case because a spent theft caution could reasonably be argued is not relevant to a cleaning job.

The big question therefore is whether they were asked about it at the time.
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Old 21-03-2012, 14:37
zoepaulpenny
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It all depends on whether he was asked about convictions at the time of appointment. If he wasn't told at the time of starting that the job was exempt from the 1974 Act, and he wasn't asked to disclose spent convictions on the application form, then being asked a year later to have a CRB check and being sacked because of what it has revealed could be unfair dismissal, especially as the offence is not directly related to the job.

I'm not an HR expert but unless your friend knowingly concealed something that would have a direct influence on their employability for the job at the time of appointment, the employer cannot then just sack them. A caution for theft (not a conviction?) once spent (5 years) is no grounds to refuse or discriminate someone for - else what is the point of convictions being spent?

However, in an application process, it is very easy to find non-discriminatory reasons to choose the 'safer' person. But it may be different in your friend's case because a spent theft caution could reasonably be argued is not relevant to a cleaning job.

The big question therefore is whether they were asked about it at the time.
i spoke to peter my mate last night. he declared that at the time of filling the application form in he was only asked of current criminal convictions. so he left off his spent ones!! then the school later on after employing him, did an enhanced check on him, found of his spent convictions and fired him!!
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Old 21-03-2012, 15:07
Tom_Tit
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i spoke to peter my mate last night. he declared that at the time of filling the application form in he was only asked of current criminal convictions. so he left off his spent ones!! then the school later on after employing him, did an enhanced check on him, found of his spent convictions and fired him!!
Nobody can do a check without your permission.
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Old 21-03-2012, 15:19
ruby36
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here is a question?? my work mate started work at a school as a cleaner 12 months ago..
they did an enhanced CBR check on him, they found out he had a caution for theft..
and after 5 years it still appeared on his record.. he was sacked..
should the caution still appear after 5 years??
Was this recently because i'm baffled as to why it took 12 months to complete a CRB check on him
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Old 21-03-2012, 15:52
bryemycaz
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i spoke to peter my mate last night. he declared that at the time of filling the application form in he was only asked of current criminal convictions. so he left off his spent ones!! then the school later on after employing him, did an enhanced check on him, found of his spent convictions and fired him!!
You say convictions in plural. Is there some other more serious offence he commited in the past which is now spent. Im afraid if theres a lot of spent convictions (other than theft) im not suprised he was fired.
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Old 21-03-2012, 18:49
TennisFreak08
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Was this recently because i'm baffled as to why it took 12 months to complete a CRB check on him
Quite. I thought employers completed said checks before employing the applicant.
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