Of course. I forgot that one!

The problem with that though is Cowell doesn't have a The Sun newspaper type in his pocket over in America to feed the hype and write about his shows daily. Even if he did America is a completely different place. Controversy tends to backfire over there for a start as they take everything so seriously.

100% right.
Cowell doesn't understand that in America the BIG shows are still...well...small.

Theres no much choice/competition that controversy can only work if its NATIONAL. E.g. Two and a Half Men style.

X Factor US is no where near big enough to start with, and hasn't been around as long, nor does it have the 'controversy' to make it all possible.

A few people said at the time that Cowell didn't understand the US market enough. And hes backing this up once again.

I still miss NHP, 15 years after they axed it. A "bad" NHP could put a dampener on a whole weekend.

I'm convinced the wanton criminal damage they inflicted on it when it was revamped was a deliberate plan to wreck the show and send the ratings off a cliff, for whatever crazy reason.

I reckon the show might still be airing had they not junked everything that made the show compulsive Saturday night telly and one of the "stand out shows" of my life thusfar.

It's had one series where it averaged around the same level that American Idol and The Voice are at now. The problem it had was it was overhyped. But it's recorded a climb for the second series in other territories so there's no reason why it won't in America.

Very much agree with this. I loved it. I was only small at the time, so I've started to believe the people who say its rubbish, and was thinking I only thought it was great because I was just little.

NTV I adored, Grab a Grand, Wait till I Get you Home, the gunge tank, the gotchas, sofa soccer. Brilliant programme. That and Live and Kicking in the morning - superb TV.

By the way - Chris Moyles on Radio 1 very regularly plays the House Party theme tune on his Radio 1 show. Almost on a daily basis in fact.

Due to Ant & Dec's BGT filming requirements, Saturday Night Takeaway might not return until late-February 2013. Therefore there could be 7 or so weeks for something else to air in that slot during January and early-February. I know there are probably budget and advertising reasons for ITV's lack of ambition in the Q1 Saturday night schedules but with the big-hitters now ageing, they need to try to breed through the next set of big shows - and no, that does not mean commissioning run-of-the-mill gameshows like Holding Out for a Hero or High Stakes! With BGT/XF established and taking up large parts of the schedule (and money) in Q2 and Q4, they ought to put more effort into launching more ambitious shows in Q1/Q3 (preferably Q1 when there's more potential viewers around) with the view of then potentially moving those shows into Q2/Q4 a few years down the line when BGT/XF finally end. I guess with Red or Black, it was an ambitious project, although most of us did say the format and scheduling was poor weeks/months in advance! They need to give that kind of push to a new Q1 show next year, preferably with a decent format this time. What kind of show that would be, I'm not sure? Talent shows are still going strong so maybe a fresh take on something we've seen before. Or personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some mainstream scripted comedy on Saturday nights, perhaps with some kind of modern twist or somehow incorporating audience interaction into it (in an appropriate way) to get people talking about it. Ant & Dec have said in the last week that they want to go back into acting and I think developing some scripted shows for them would be a good idea - either for Saturday nights or the Thursday 8.30pm slot.

NHP was long past its sell-by date when the BBC axed it. There was absolutely no possibility it could be continuing today. But to be fair Noel has re-invented himself with DOND.

Kind of makes sense though. I very rarely watch anything live on a +1 channel - I only ever really use it to record from when there is a scheduling clash which means I can't record an hour later. I think with BGT v The Voice too it is a situation where ITV are inviting people to record and watch at 8.20pm - +1s kind of come into their own when you're late in or you forget about something, but manage to catch it an hour later, rather than for a planned scheduling clash.

I think even if The Voice ended at 9pm most viewers would opt to record than watch on +1.


Notice too they won't move The Voice tonight to make way for Moto GP - it usually ends up on BBC3 if it can't air on BBC2, but has to make do with the red button instead.


I fully concur. I spent many a Saturday checking for hidden cameras paranoid I'd been set up for NTV - even though I'd have only been 10-12. It is probably the last Saturday night show which was built around a host rather than a format too - even Saturday Night Takeaway is supposed to be all about the Win the Ads game rather than just a random mix of entertainment.

.........and Im sure he would have awarded Empire an Oscar if he could.

Deleted

Simon Cowell on Twitter:
A slightly irritated congrats to Danny and the BBC. But you didn’t have a dancing dog! I thought our team made a fantastic show last night and congrats to them as well. Loving the show this year. @GotTalent

Hmm, that almost sounds like he's admitted defeat.

at least unlike some in this thread he is being sincere about it.

On a personal level you, you have to hand it to BBC One and Danny Cohen for making The Voice big here, as it has been elsewhere, against stiffer competition.

The problem with light entertainment in general at the moment and ITV in particular is that with only a couple of exceptions everything that makes the air essentially has the one line pitch of 'its like.... [insert hit show here]' and nothing else except maybe 'with celebrities'. Far too much of the output is just a slight variation on The X Factor or Britain's Got Talent or Strictly Come Dancing or The Apprentice or I'm A Celebrity with absolutely no thought given to whether its a good show that people will want to watch or not and next to no effort put into producing it.

At this stage what ITV desperately needs to do is stop using a pre-existing show as the template for all their new commissions and just look for a show that actually works in its own right. As much The Voice was labelled as a derivative of The X Factor and tried to cash-in on that before its launch what's important to remember is that it is a show that works in its own right. It has its own style, tone and purpose and that's what people have reacted to and why its growing week-on-week. Essentially what I'm saying ITV need is new shows with their own voice and identity and they are perfectly capable of doing that when they try – Take Me Out is hardly the most ground breaking or original show but it works because it has its own identity away from its predecessors.

Red or Black is I think the high or low (depending on your point of view) point of this style of commissioning. Absolutely every single part of that show was cherry picked from other successful formats and just awkwardly stuck together. ITV (and SyCo) though it would be huge because it had all these successful parts but completely forgot to spend any time working out if it was watchable and crafting anything close to an identity for the show.

Of course the other big stumbling block for light entertainment in this day and age is the complete lack of talent to front new shows. Essentially British television has Ant & Dec and that's it. And even they've struggled lately. Its really pretty easy to roll out endless talent shows and the like because the hosts of those aren't all important but for just about any other format they are. Game shows live or die on the presenter and outside of Ant & Dec who would be able to hold together a modern day Noel's House Party? I suspect in decades gone by when there was a wealth of talent to develop shows for developing new light entertainment was a little bit easier and more important.


That's not entirely true.

In reality the problem The X Factor US had is that it was never able to get any traction so its 'controversies' went by largely unnoticed. Given how slick the UK shows had been until that point it was actually somewhat remarkable just how badly The X Factor US was bungled at almost every turn. The promotion was too big and started way too soon which just raised expectations to an unachievable level and allowed NBC to do a quick turn around on The Voice and completely steal the shows thunder. They got the choice of judges completely wrong and then their attempt to create controversy by dumping Cheryl Cole (who the US audience had never heard of) was completely misjudged as well – why on earth where they going to care about that?

Had they made better choices the basic strategy they were going for probably would have worked. What they did didn't completely imploded on them it just failed to ignite as they'd expected.


I'm not entirely sure I'd bet the house on X Factor US rising in series two.

A lot is going to depend on who they bring in as the new judges (although it seems they've learnt no lessons on that front from series 1) and what kind of promotion Fox give it this time around. Whether Cowell and co. are able to adapt the show in the face of criticism and changing winds in the US is also going to be a huge issue for them. Plus the other networks aren't going to be anywhere near as concerned about it this year as they were last year which'll make things even harder. As a general rule US audiences are much less forgiving than audiences elsewhere in the world and for the most part the reaction to X Factor US wasn't great.

The BBC PR campaign which includes numerous television channels, the most listened to radio stations and one of the most popular internet sites in the country against TV Burp repeats, a tired You've Been Framed and celebrity spin offs?

TV Burp was airing a new episode when it started, and BGT is also on. Nobody forced viewers to stick with The Voice after BGT started, remotes dont lock until the program you are watching ends.

Simon hasn't given up he's just being gracious for this round. And Simon has spoken meaning what George S says is meaningless. More to the point Simon isn't including +1!!

Tweet from Sam Hodges just now:

@Sam_Hodges: Very gentlemanly tweet from @SimonCowell appears to agree adding +1 channels doesn't make for a straight comparison. #TheVoiceUK

As long as a show is watchable (which obviously The Voice is to most) why would people turn over and miss the final twenty minutes when other methods are available to catch up on the later show?

Forgot TV Burp was the last ever for The Voice's launch but that was dying a death before The Voice came along so it wasn't exactly opposition.

you dont get 9 or 10 million viewers for nothing, you have to do something special to get those kinds of figures these days.

As for The Voice and BGT, if people liked BGT more than TV they would switch over to BGT, that is not happening, people are clearly happy to miss the start of BGT, or are PVRing the start of BGT, something ITV would not be happy about.

Also part of what I meant by "stiffer competition" was that The Voice had to impress an audience who had already seen the mega successful X-Factor and BGT.

BBC1 in general has had a good start to 2012 with The Voice on Saturdays and starting to command Sunday nights from ITV with Sherlock and Call the Midwife, which must be of worry to ITV what with the decline of the DOI/WAH combo. I think the pendulum is starting to shift to BBC1 as regard weekends.

As I said before, if a show is watchable as The Voice is to most then why would anyone miss the last twenty minutes when they can easily catch up on the later starting show.

The Voice obviously has the format of pleasing people in other countries with tough competition - for example, in the US they already had Got Talent and Idol as well; Ireland had The X Factor and BGT and so on and so on.

simply because they like BGT more. The Voices high ratings, does not make a blind bit of a difference to the individual, who would rather be watching BGT than The Voice.

Sorry, you've lost me.