Both Guestimmation and The Peoples Qiuz started with over 5million viewers, helped by the Lottery branding. Never in a million years would they have even launched with 4m on Itv1, let alone 5m>. Come and Have a Go (if you think you're smart enough) was popular in its 2nd series, getting over 6million viewers for many episodes according to BARB, and rating over 1million higher than the first series which didnt have National Lottery branding. Yes National Lottery shows do flop but they they have the advantage of starting much higher than what other quizzes can start with so can be more successful.

Actually these were the days when In it to win it was getting 7-8m so a 4-5m debut wasn't a good start. And with the greatest respect you don't have a clue how they would have launched on ITV. Those lottery formats you talk about launched on uncompetetive nights a totally different time to when ITV launched theirs.
The 3 flop quizzes ITV aired last year were either in the flop zone or against Countryfile/Strictly. Not exactly the same as when Guestimation and this time launched on summer nights in July!

On what planet is slower than In it to win it [which is mostly disliked] a compliment from the 'gameshow community'?

Well, that's always been the case, ITV used to do it all the time, the reason they generally don't now is because it really annoys viewers when their TV guides are inaccurate, and often these days ITV need to stick with what they've got because they can't be wasting money. I've said this loads of times before but back in 2000, ITV had a new drama billed on a Sunday and Monday night and with about two days to go decided it wasn't good enough and dropped it, sticking a new Midsomer Murders in its place instead. Presumably they decided that annoying viewers and throwing away a Midsomer was preferable to frittering away a prime slot on a stinker.


Yes, before The Royal Bodyguard, Bussell and Sbresni were pretty successful, with the inexplicably popular Barbara and The Worst Week Of My Life, both of which were decent-sized hits, though The Robinsons on BBC2 wasn't. All their stuff is a bit similar, though. Wonder if this'll have a studio audience, presumably not.


It is too late, though, you don't want light entertainment running until 10.30 because it seems far too flimsy, by that time of night people want adult programmes, and it makes earlier in the evening look incredibly weak.

The best bit about The Voice, by the way, is reading Boyd Hilton's hilarious backtracking in Heat after he more or less pooh-poohed The Voice in week one and is now desperately trying to pretend he didn't, giving it the most mealy-mouthed reviews imaginable and repeatedly praising Britain's Got Talent to the skies, inevitably suggesting any success by The Voice is due to, natch, the Beeb not playing fair. Preusmably if The Voice rises any further, Hilton will explode given Cowell, like Gervais and Lucas, cannot be faulted at any point. What a hopeless TV "critic" he is.


I don't think that was the lottery suddenly having high standards - given how bloody awful most of the programming they're responsible for is - but more likely that it was dying on its arse and the Beeb relegated it to earlier in the evening, while the lottery can't be drawn until after eight o'clock, so they removed it so they could dump it at teatime. It's a bit like in the 1998 World Cup when Big Ticket was running, and when it was moved to earlier in the evening to make way for football, they had to do the lottery as a separate programme later in the evening, and everyone wondered why the hell the lottery show didn't even have the lottery in it.


But the first series of Come And Have A Go also flopped because it was in a hopeless BBC1 schedule in the spring of 2004, scheduled between some crap filler and Jet Set, whereas the lottery-based second series was between Doctor Who and Casualty, so even without the lottery it would have done better.

I don't buy the idea that people watch the shows just to see the numbers either, they know when they're drawn, they just need to switch on five minutes from the end. Guesstimation, of course, was a John De Mol/Talpa production, of course - as is The Voice.

I don't suppose there is any way those ratings can be broken down to declare a Daybreak victory, though I suspect splitting it in the schedule as something like Daybreak Early from 6-7am then Daybreak from 7-8.30am (as GMTV Today was) would make Daybreak look a bit better.

Do we have a 6-8.30am figure for Breakfast and again for 8.30-9.15am?


All spin as an ITV back down rather than the BBC forcing them out. It had to happen eventually though - a week too late though probably.


So head to head with Homeland?


How can bad for advertisers be good for ITV's ratings. This move is great for advertisers as people will now watch BGT live rather than record and skip the ads.

In It To Win It is one the best BBC ONE quiz shows of the last 10 years, other shows will inevitably not live up to its success. 5million is a solid start to any new quiz show [particularly when launching in Spring/summer] and the evidence is there that if you have the name 'National Lottery' attached to an average new quiz show, it is more likely to launch higher for the first episode than if the name isnt there. If people dont like it, yes the ratings will drop over the course of the season, just as they did for Guestimmation. But if a shows starting at 5million+ like 90% of the Lottery formats do, even dropping 20 percent by the end of the season, its gonna get 4m. Lots of non-Lottery quiz shows on BBC One and Itv1 cant even start off with 4-4 and a half million.. 101 Ways to Leave a Gameshow, Epic Win, Duel, Colour of Money, Magic Numbers, Odd One Out, the list goes on.

We'll see what happens next time BBC One or Itv1 launch a new bog standard gameshow on a Saturday night, lets see if it launches with the 5million that 90% of new Lottery shows start with.


In It To Win It mostly disliked? Its one of the most enjoyable quizshows out there and Ive rarely come across anyone who has a bad word to say about the actual game element of it, I know some people get irritated by the presentation though ! Any quizshow which is similar to IITWI is on the right path as far as Im concerned and I know quite a few people on the quiz circuit who would agree with that sentiment.


Its not so much about viewers waiting around to watch the Lottery draws but there are some hardcore loyal viewers of the Lottery shows who are happy with the general style and tone of what these shows offer and will give a new Lottery show more of a chance than other quizzes because the brand is familiar, they have been so impressed by Lottery gameshows of the past and present and expect a similar kind of quality from the new programme. Thats why NL shows often get a big sampling for episode one, the magnitude of sampling a lot of other gameshows simply do not get.

The early evening looks incredibly weak now; it's not as though The Cube is going to do anything opposite The Voice. ITV1 will have an evening of 3m rating programmes if they're lucky, with Britain's Got Talent getting treble the figures of any other show. I understand what you mean about 10.30pm being late but if they gave it a 6pm repeat on Sunday it'll attract a family audience. In a perfect world ITV wouldn't want The Cube to start after 10pm but they're not dealing with a perfect world now.

Plus outside the tenth repeat of films what adult shows have ITV1 got? They may as well risk The Cube; it's going to be hurt either way - the lead in may at least give it a boost.

We'll watch something off the planner after The Voice, and still spin through the ads of BGT. But you're right, the live viewing will increase.

Football SPOILER attached (Match Of The Day is on BBC1 at 10.45pm)...

Yep. That should be interesting! It's possible that they don't share that many viewers, they are after all very different. I watch both and will continue to do so.


I don't know who you are quoting there, but it's not me.

As we've seen from week 1 and 2, the papers aren't interested in the whole ratings, they are focussing on the clash. You could have a 5 minute clash where BGT loses and then gets 100 million for the remainder of the show, and the papers would still lead on the clash figure. Hence why keeping a clash of any sort is pointless.

I still don't buy this idea that the Lottery branded quizzes do well because they're Lottery branded. As I've said before I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that this slot has consistently been a quiz show slot for the BBC for years now so that audience is always there. The problem ITV have had (and will continue to have) is that they have absolutely no consistency to their scheduling outside of the soaps. Everything is just thrown around the schedule at will so there isn't a 'game show' slot where they consistently air game shows that will build up a solid audience.


Have we seen any audience demographics for Once Upon A Time yet? My concern with the move to 9PM wouldn't be a crossover with Homeland but rather that its going to be moving too late for some of the family audience a show like this should be attracting.

Well In It to Win It is obviously tediously slow.

However, I will now spend the next five minutes trying to convince you that my answer is not so obvious, so it could be incredibly entertaining as I do remember seeing a show on the BBC at some point in the past which could possibly maybe have passed as incredibly entertaining, but hang on.

It could also be mildly addictive. Oh sorry, that's just Dale and fake tan.

So let's go back to my original answer and now pretend to discount that answer and actually question how anyone could possibly think In it to Win It is tediously slow. But no, it obviously is but I'll nervously suggest the answer I was so confident about three minutes will be my answer to the question to which I obviously know the answer to and say "Tediously slow".


Of course I'm ****ing sure - you've made me spend five minutes talking through the blatantly obvious answer to a blatantly obvious question. Just get on with the fake tension will you!




Seriously though The Voice has surely raised the level of expectations for BBC on a Saturday night (though not the budget) and the lottery shows do look very cheap and dated now. I can't believe the tedious In it to Win It has survived when much better shows like Winning Lines and Jetset have been dumped over the years.

I'd like to see the lottery shows return to a live entertainment based programme myself - certainly outside of the Strictly and Voice season. Not so much because I think the lottery should be in the centre of a song and dance, but more because it is a way for the BBC to stick a 30-minute entertainment format on Saturday nights and it to have a shot. It also takes the pressure off the presenter too - if it fails it'll be seen as a failure of the lottery and the BBC, not of the host attached.

Tuesdays at 8pm have had quite a lot of game shows for years!

Then they should've avoided the clash from the start. Take Me Out is a weak excuse; if they were that concerned about the clash they would've risked Take Me Out sinking just to keep Britain's Got Talent out of the way.

The Voice could have flopped or been pushed back to clash at a later time.

I think this discussion is going round in circles now

True. I did say last night BBC One would have probably instigated a clash at some point although at least if ITV had tried to avoid The Voice the BBC would've been to blame, as it were.

Either way, PR wise, ITV have made a complete mess of it.

My suggestion is to get Darren McMullen (who did a good job on The Magicians at the start of the year) to host a UK version of Who's Still Standing and add that to the Lottery rotation. Although at this stage any new format that doesn't feel like someone found it buried in the back of a drawer of a desk abandoned at the end of the 90's would be good.


I'd be tempted to call this a good idea but my fear is that it might result in the BBC giving a more prominent slot to Tonight's The Night. But as long as that never happens I can get behind more general entertainment formats being attached to the Lottery branding.

I probably should have said a consistent slot on a night when the audience at large remembers that ITV exists.

Does it ever!

The Voice/BGT scheduling discussion has become very tedious reading. Yesterday we had 4 pages saying why ITV should move BGT then today we get another 4 pages saying why they've made the right decision to move.

Don't let them clash again please!

Not for the sake of BBC or ITV but for the sake of the Ratings Thread sanity.

They have but that's schedulers for you. Of course if BBC1 want to move later for upcoming episodes the bad PR finger will be pointed at them.

All this The Voice v's BGT fluff talk is getting rather ridiculous. In a nutshell: The Beeb will be delighted with the ratings and press coverage, ITV/Cowell will be delighted with the ratings and press coverage.

The Beeb have a big LE hit, Cowell/ITV are still making money.

The End!

I do wish Titanic was on the Saturday. Would be a bundle of laughs in here

I do think some things are being missed in terms of ratings facts/not being discussed:
- BBC One finally has a nice wee hit there with The Syndicate. Nothing major, but staying solid!
- Silent Witness is down a bit, I'm seeing some changes to the show, wondering if this is an attempt to freshen it up (honestly the Beeb maybe need a change to the cast)
- The Apprentice is a bit of a rubbish group this year and isn't really benefiting from last years mega build up!

The rest of the ratings are dull though. The usual things are shit, the usual things are solid...
Were lacking any real...hits...and soaps are dead now too (seriously they all need to get their acts together, EE looks most in danger to me)

Something big and new to do well would be nice. Which is why everyones talking about The Voice quite frankly!
Fact is the reality shows are more bite sized and easier for people on here to talk about I suppose.

Whilst The Syndicate needs to be watched to be fully appreciated; Titanic on the other hand is just plain crap and crap is easy to understand and thus discuss!

In this 'multi-channel age' it is highly commendable that programmes can rate 1/6 of the UK population each. I use this analogy a lot - but its like an American show rating 50 million viewers - pro rata.