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Mass Effect 3 - (The Discussion Thread with SPOILERS)


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Old 17-03-2012, 19:14
late8
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Thinking about it, the destroy ending is probably the worst possible ending, whether Shepard lives or not, because the Citadel and, more importantly, the Reapers are destroyed. Think about it, the Reapers will probably know how to rebuild the mass relays and the last time we see the galaxy map they are spread all over the galaxy, meaning they could have the relay network back up and running in just a few years.

Also, in the control ending the citadel survives, which could give some hope to the Turians and Quarians in orbit of Earth because there will likely be stores of supplies that they can use to survive in the short term.

At the very least the Reapers could be used as scouts to try to find appropriate planets for them to use in the mean time. Plus the Quarians probably know a thing or two about surviving in situations like this.
Control wouldn't end the cycle however. The reapers will win.

The only one is the "green pill" that unites all - the cycle is broken and all lifeforms survive (apart from Shepard)


In all honesty the ending is the "no win scenario" and I think that's how it is going to stay.
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Old 17-03-2012, 19:22
late8
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Well I'm glad this isn't the last we hear from Shepard

I finished it today.

I'm unsure what ending I got though

- Illusive man shot himself
- Anderson died
- Chose Paragon.

Other

Thane was assassinated
Kelly Chambers was assassinated
Mordin commited suicided
Legion termimated

Kaiden killed on Virmire.
Wrex killed on Virmire.

Joker landed on planet with Samantha.

Miranda, Jacob, Grunt, Jack, Samara, Zaeed, Kasumi and Wreav all lived.

Imported PS3 Mass Effect 2 Level 30 FemShep Infiltrator Sole Survivor Earthborn

Unsure what happened to

Liara, Garrus, Tali, Ashley, James, EDI, Javik....
Yeah thats different.

- I shot the Illusive man
- Anderson still dies


Other

Thane was assassinated = part of the story as I then killed that Samurai guy
Kelly Chambers wasnt in mine
Mordin commited suicide to save Krogan.
Legion self terminated but the Geth went good and Tali lived in mine and I got both fleets after uploading the code

Kaiden wasnt in mine as he died in the first game. Instead it was Ashley who lived to the end + romance
Wrex and Grunt lived and the Krogan were on Earth to help

Joker landed on planet with EDI (Synergy ending)

Miranda, Jacob, Grunt, Jack, Samara, Zaeed, Kasumi and Wreav all lived.

Unsure what happened to

Garrus & James, EDI, Javik...
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Old 17-03-2012, 19:33
jy1541
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The destroy ending is slightly different from the others in that the Reapers all crumble, and EDI does not appear at the end.
You can also destroy, devastate or save Earth, but it's being extremely generous to class any of those minor alterations as different endings, imo. It's a shame, the game really was fantastic, but the ending managed to ruin it all for me.

I eventually forgave BSG for its 'god' rubbish, and the ME3 ending is helping me forgive Lost, since that was a bad idea well executed, but the ME ending is a terrible idea barely executed. I wanted to play all 3 games again, but I played the games for the story and the ending has robbed the overall storyline of purpose.
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Old 17-03-2012, 20:24
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You can also destroy, devastate or save Earth, but it's being extremely generous to class any of those minor alterations as different endings, imo. It's a shame, the game really was fantastic, but the ending managed to ruin it all for me.

I eventually forgave BSG for its 'god' rubbish, and the ME3 ending is helping me forgive Lost, since that was a bad idea well executed, but the ME ending is a terrible idea barely executed. I wanted to play all 3 games again, but I played the games for the story and the ending has robbed the overall storyline of purpose.
I don't see why. The story will continue.
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Old 17-03-2012, 21:09
late8
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You can also destroy, devastate or save Earth, but it's being extremely generous to class any of those minor alterations as different endings, imo. It's a shame, the game really was fantastic, but the ending managed to ruin it all for me.

I eventually forgave BSG for its 'god' rubbish, and the ME3 ending is helping me forgive Lost, since that was a bad idea well executed, but the ME ending is a terrible idea barely executed. I wanted to play all 3 games again, but I played the games for the story and the ending has robbed the overall storyline of purpose.
But the ME3 ending is justified- its the rest of the ending shots that ruin / confuse things.

Shepard made his final choices but the situation he was in was a no win scenario.

The story is about the cycles and "From Ashes DLC" explains more of this too.

Shepard HAD to break the cycles and thats what the whole ending was about.

Illusive man represented Control

Anderson represented Destruction

However Synergy was the middle option of uniting Biological and Synthetic life in a new order of existence- something Shepard nearly was anyway.




Something must be amiss however as there are way to many problems left over.
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Old 18-03-2012, 00:33
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The person in the rubble on destroy ending isn't Shepard its the NEXT character.

The sacrifice was made the aftershocks will need sorting and a new person to take the stand.
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Old 18-03-2012, 02:02
jy1541
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But the ME3 ending is justified- its the rest of the ending shots that ruin / confuse things.

Shepard made his final choices but the situation he was in was a no win scenario.

The story is about the cycles and "From Ashes DLC" explains more of this too.

Shepard HAD to break the cycles and thats what the whole ending was about.

Illusive man represented Control

Anderson represented Destruction

However Synergy was the middle option of uniting Biological and Synthetic life in a new order of existence- something Shepard nearly was anyway.

Something must be amiss however as there are way to many problems left over.
The ending was not justified at all. The entire storyline of ME3 is based on a deus ex machina - the crucible. This means that all previous constraints on the outcome are thrown out the window. It's a cheap device, but acceptable. It means that anything becomes possible, the entire ending was opened up. It actually kind of fits ME since the entire series, ME3 especially, has been about overcoming the odds.

But it's also been about free will and putting aside past prejudices, like with the Turians and the Krogan, the Quarians and the Geth, and EDI's entire storyline. The line that struck me the most was her suggestion that the mistake wasn't in creating synthetic life, it was in creating synthetic life that wasn't in our image. I'm not religious, but I thought this idea was creative and interesting.

Aside from that, all advertising for the game has focused on choosing, and earning, an ending that fits the story you've created with your choices.

The ending throws all of this out the window, you have three choices, all of which result in the same consequences. You have no free will, you have arbitrary choices imposed upon you by a character whose existence had never been hinted at. It is stated as a fact that you cannot overcome old prejudices, contradicting the very same game.

Apart from the thematic incompatibility of the ending, logic is also disregarded. How did our companions get on the Normandy? The shuttle was irreparably damaged and yet they somehow step out of the Normandy at the end. Why would Joker run away from the battle anyway?

Finally, the most unpalatable aspect of the ending IMO, is that they destroy the universe they've created. The Mass Relays are no more, the Citadel is gone, meaning the galactic civilisation that was emerging, and that we've been given the chance to foster and preserve, is gone. Everything that made the ME universe unique and interesting is destroyed by the current ending. Anything that comes after will not be Mass Effect, it will be a different universe.

I'm rambling and I care about those more than I should, so I'll stop here. I just hope they change the ending, Mass Effect deserves better than this. The ending as it is should be retained as the middle option, but I want to have the option to earn an ending that does what we've been aiming for: stop the Reapers and save the galaxy as it is. I also want the chance to completely fail and allow the cycle to continue if I've failed to unite the galaxy. This isn't about having a happy ending vs having a sad ending, it's about having a well written ending vs having a crap ending that doesn't fit Mass Effect.
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Old 18-03-2012, 04:43
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After looking at the Bioware app, and looking at tweets and messages it seems they knew the end would not be ideal but they had to rush and now are scrambling to solve their PR nightmare.

I think if thats the ending they wrote and wanted they need to stick to it but acknowledge that the fans are pissed off. If it is not what they wanted and were rushed (as it seems with the Tali face reveal and the final images) they need to crack out some free DLC to finish what they started.

Personally i played my fem shep several times and until the finale i thought ME3 was the best game ever, but the last 30 mins just soured the trilogy for me. The ending was half assed ( I understood it but it doesn't mean i have to appreciate it) and it leaves a sour taste.
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Old 18-03-2012, 07:52
NeutronstarNeko
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I don't see why. The story will continue.
Not sure how the story can continue after the end of ME3, all species cut off from each other, stranded in places with limited supplies after the reapers nearly wiped them out...

Having said that it is almost unthinkable that they wouldnt want to do a ME4, each game gets bigger and, I assume, sells more copies of the last so it can only make business sense to make more.
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Old 18-03-2012, 08:44
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Control wouldn't end the cycle however. The reapers will win.

The only one is the "green pill" that unites all - the cycle is broken and all lifeforms survive (apart from Shepard)


In all honesty the ending is the "no win scenario" and I think that's how it is going to stay.
I didn't explicitly mention the synthesis ending but there's no reason that the Reapers can't rebuild the network with that ending and, as I said, the Quarians could probably help the Turians survive until then.

Ultimately, my post was about the utter futility of the destroy ending despite everyone saying that it's the best possible ending.

From the perspective of future games though it probably won't matter what ending you choose as it will all turn out the same regardless.
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Old 18-03-2012, 09:39
late8
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The ending was not justified at all. The entire storyline of ME3 is based on a deus ex machina - the crucible. This means that all previous constraints on the outcome are thrown out the window. It's a cheap device, but acceptable. It means that anything becomes possible, the entire ending was opened up. It actually kind of fits ME since the entire series, ME3 especially, has been about overcoming the odds.

But it's also been about free will and putting aside past prejudices, like with the Turians and the Krogan, the Quarians and the Geth, and EDI's entire storyline. The line that struck me the most was her suggestion that the mistake wasn't in creating synthetic life, it was in creating synthetic life that wasn't in our image. I'm not religious, but I thought this idea was creative and interesting.

Aside from that, all advertising for the game has focused on choosing, and earning, an ending that fits the story you've created with your choices.

The ending throws all of this out the window, you have three choices, all of which result in the same consequences. You have no free will, you have arbitrary choices imposed upon you by a character whose existence had never been hinted at. It is stated as a fact that you cannot overcome old prejudices, contradicting the very same game.

Apart from the thematic incompatibility of the ending, logic is also disregarded. How did our companions get on the Normandy? The shuttle was irreparably damaged and yet they somehow step out of the Normandy at the end. Why would Joker run away from the battle anyway?

Finally, the most unpalatable aspect of the ending IMO, is that they destroy the universe they've created. The Mass Relays are no more, the Citadel is gone, meaning the galactic civilisation that was emerging, and that we've been given the chance to foster and preserve, is gone. Everything that made the ME universe unique and interesting is destroyed by the current ending. Anything that comes after will not be Mass Effect, it will be a different universe.

I'm rambling and I care about those more than I should, so I'll stop here. I just hope they change the ending, Mass Effect deserves better than this. The ending as it is should be retained as the middle option, but I want to have the option to earn an ending that does what we've been aiming for: stop the Reapers and save the galaxy as it is. I also want the chance to completely fail and allow the cycle to continue if I've failed to unite the galaxy. This isn't about having a happy ending vs having a sad ending, it's about having a well written ending vs having a crap ending that doesn't fit Mass Effect.

But is the ending crap? I thought if you view it as a final heroic act where the choices now have only one outcome - death to save all then its quite beautiful.

It actually works as a good platform to continue the story.

Personaly i think Shepard died to save the ME universe in some form. The story can still continue from here.

Each ending has hints...

The body in the London rubble on the full Destroy ending isn't Shepard its the NEXT character we play.

Either way Shepard died but Bioware said they were not finished with Mass Effect.


After all three games and such a massive story there is no way Bioware sent out that ending for no reason.

It is unforgettable and we are all doing what they want us to do.... talk about it!
Some think its poor because Sheppard died and there are unanswered questions. The next step is who fills Shepard boots and how do things pan out from here.

If you view the ending as a beginning it makes sense .
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Old 18-03-2012, 10:55
mikey86uk
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Not sure how the story can continue after the end of ME3, all species cut off from each other, stranded in places with limited supplies after the reapers nearly wiped them out...
I think it will be interesting how they get round this.

Big mess to clear up.

but ive never anticipated DLC as much as the next ME3 DLC.

Really hope they clear it all up and fix those poor excuses of what they call endings.
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Old 18-03-2012, 11:41
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I believe Anderson dies regardless of what options you pick, which is quite sad because he was such a great character!
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Old 18-03-2012, 14:53
Matt D
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The body in the London rubble on the full Destroy ending isn't Shepard its the NEXT character we play.
I think it's Shepard (although of course it makes no sense that Shep would be back in London, unless the end didn't happen...). The armour matches, the body has N7 dogtags, and the breath sound is female (I was a FemShep).
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Old 18-03-2012, 14:57
Matt D
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Anyway. The ending:

DESTROY! DESTROY!

EMS was high enough that Earth wasn't destroyed, or devastated. Reputation was high enough that I got TIM to "do a Saren".

Dreamboy AI can sod off. Screw his cycle. COMMANDER SHEPARD united the whole damn galaxy, including synthetics [erm, not that that matters anymore though...]. Sure, it believes it's inevitable that synthetics will rise up and wipe out all organics, but COMMANDER SHEPARD believes otherwise. So he can sod right off.

RIP my dreamteam of Garrus and Liara.

Issues:

1) The Normandy scene. Seriously... WTF? It makes no sense at all, in various ways such as...

a) First off, WTF was Joker doing running away from the fight? The Normandy was taking part in the battle, in the Shield fleet. If he had stayed with the fleet, stayed in the battle, then the Normandy wouldn't have been trying to outrun the Crucible energy as it shot out of the relay, it would have been safe (except for Reapers of course, until they died). Yet the Normandy was already away from Earth, travelling away from the relay, with the Crucible energy shooting after it. WTF? How? I guess Joker is a damn coward...

b) The squad. How the hell was Javik [in my game] on board, when he was on Earth with Hammer, the shuttles were toast, and the Normandy was with the fleet? My LI was there too, but fair enough on that, as she was the comm officer not a squadmate. However it's nonsense for anyone whose LI was a final-battle squadmate, as I've read that *they* are in the Normandy scene too, even though they were on Earth as your final-battle squad...and not just on Earth, but BLOODY VAPORISED BY SOVEREIGN'S BEAM WHEN YOU RAN FOR THE CONDUIT! WTF?


2) The relays. Why did it not destroy the solar system when it exploded? Have the writers forgotten Arrival? Or the Codex? Ah, it's some fancy type of explosion is it? OK then... Right... Although even so, with the relays all destroyed, the galaxy is screwed anyway, and of course a whole shitload of different alien fleets are now stranded in orbit of a devastated Earth.


3) Dreamboy. Why was he the boy from the dreams? [And why did we have to suffer those dreams anyway? They really sucked]. But actually, my issue with him is... If he controls the Reapers and the Citadel, why did the Reapers need the keepers to activate the Citadel's super-relay when they wanted to jump in every 50,000 years, and thus get thwarted by the Protheans using the Conduit to sneak on and disable the keeper control signal? WHY DIDN'T DREAMBOY JUST TURN IT ON HIMSELF EVERY CYCLE?

Oh, and I didn't like the "Stargazer" thing after the credits.

Main ways I would have done it differently:

Ditch the entire Normandy scene. It makes no sense. Just show it with the fleet, like in ME1. Maybe being chased by a Reaper, and then the Crucible beam washes over the Reaper just in time.

Don't destroy the relays. Just do it like they did in Stargate SG-1: energy wave comes out of each Stargate [mass relay] across the galaxy... without destroying them... and destroys all the Replicators [Reapers].

Closure on what happened to the rest of the gang, and what happened to the galaxy!

Oh, and fix the Dreamboy thing somehow.


As for choice and whether it mattered or not in the end...

I can see why some say it didn't matter after all, as all that galactic peacemaking seems pointless now, as do all the little choices too, given the state of the galaxy...

But... it does still matter, as the alliances you build up contribute to your military strength, and your military strength determines the end choices, and whether Earth survives or not. If you didn't get enough help on board for the fight, then Earth is toast even if you stop the Reapers. Choices throughout the entire trilogy - not just ME3 - affect your military strength for the final battle.

Yes, it's annoying not having closure, not seeing what happens next, not seeing further outcomes of your choices, but... they did matter for the final fight.
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Old 18-03-2012, 14:58
Matt D
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Someone's analysis of the ending: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...pli=1&sle=true


Interesting reading.
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Old 18-03-2012, 15:17
late8
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Someone's analysis of the ending: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...pli=1&sle=true


Interesting reading.
It is interesting - but just winds me up even more.

Bioware are very quiet about the growing unrest.

I have a feeling they have either seriously fuc*ed up and don't want to go public because sales will drop like a stone (highly unlikely as it wouldnt have gone past testing).

Or they have a cunning master plan to lead us all into a new Mass Effect series.

They did say this wouldn't be the end but I thought that was just talk about DLC's
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Old 18-03-2012, 15:22
late8
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I think it's Shepard (although of course it makes no sense that Shep would be back in London, unless the end didn't happen...). The armour matches, the body has N7 dogtags, and the breath sound is female (I was a FemShep).
Male Shep sounds the same so I think it just a generic inhale of breath.
Will see on my next play though if I can bring myself to do it all again.

I can see why they would have such a big epic death ending and then say it was all an illusion.

The indoctrination theroy flying around uses this cut scene in London to say Shep is alive - but we don't know if it really is him/her !

If the ending did happen I honestly think its a new character breathing in the rubble for the next chapter. After all it wasn't just Shepard down there. There would have been many other commanders and soldiers running in to the fight. Shep got to the beam and died to save them all.

Mind you if this was the case - why not show him surviving on all the outcomes ? ?
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Old 18-03-2012, 16:05
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The last 30 minutes of the game just show how strapped the developers were for time to get the game done.

The end game from the MGS4 style sequence is just one convoluted mess, which has no bearing on anything.
It's like they just made things up as they went along.

I'm not comfortable with not knowing what exactly happened to Shepard. There are too many contradictions.

On reflection, the last quarter of the game (after Rannoch - which was my favorite part), seemed just rushed.

By that time I had 100% scanned all the planets, done all the side missions (the fetch quests ) most of the N7 missions which were incredibly short (I think there was 1 left to unlock).
ME2 handled the sidequests better.

Fighting on Earth seemed like any other war type shooter, and using biotic powers seemed a little out of place.

I think the Journal could have been done a little better (like ME2).
No hacking/bypass mini-game.

In summary -- a lot of dumbing down.
But despite that, an OK game.

I will wait for what they have in store for Shepard.
As they said it's not the last we've seen of him/her.

(maybe they will continue his/her story considering many of us are unhappy)

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Old 18-03-2012, 16:38
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I was wondering what all of the fuss over the ending was about and I wasn't taking it seriously at all. Oh I'm sure they're just overreacting I thought, it's always the same with Bioware fans I thought, people just like to complain I thought. Well I thought wrong.

I've been with this franchise since the beginning and I've really come to love the characters and world in a way I never have with any other series. ME3 was by far my most anticipated game since I picked up a controller. I feel kinda stupid but I can't help it....it hurt. A lot. It just seemed so cobbled together and pretentious and....not Mass Effect.

Why was it so short? Where were my choices? Why did Shepard just weakly accept what this out of nowhere Deus ex Machina plot device character was saying? Then there are the ridiculous plot holes and unresolved issues like how screwed your allies stranded on Earth are and why the hell Joker was fleeing halfway across the galaxy while his friend was dying and how the hell Garrus was on the ship at the end when he was right behind me when the reaper superbeam annihilated everyone. Did he run away and abandon me too? And as for grandpa and the annoying little brat at the end....seriously? How patronizing.

I think what happened here is a combination of multiplayer being tacked on and taking time and resources away from the single player, and a hasty and rushed job refining stuff after the script was accidentally leaked. So I'm sad. Not just about how the finale was ruined, but because I attempted to play ME and ME2 again (like I always intended to) and I lasted about 10 minutes before turning them off. It's soured the entire series.
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Old 18-03-2012, 17:08
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Theres no real possibility of a sequeal theres so many different paths you could take and the ending seems pretty final.

Maybe a prequel or a story with another Cerebus Shephard clone dealing with the aftermath and all the alien ships stuck in earths solar system.
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Old 18-03-2012, 17:11
late8
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The last 30 minutes of the game just show how strapped the developers were for time to get the game done.

The end game from the MGS4 style sequence is just one convoluted mess, which has no bearing on anything.
It's like they just made things up as they went along.

I'm not comfortable with not knowing what exactly happened to Shepard. There are too many contradictions.

On reflection, the last quarter of the game (after Rannoch - which was my favorite part), seemed just rushed.

By that time I had 100% scanned all the planets, done all the side missions (the fetch quests ) most of the N7 missions which were incredibly short (I think there was 1 left to unlock).
ME2 handled the sidequests better.

Fighting on Earth seemed like any other war type shooter, and using biotic powers seemed a little out of place.

I think the Journal could have been done a little better (like ME2).
No hacking/bypass mini-game.

In summary -- a lot of dumbing down.
But despite that, an OK game.

I will wait for what they have in store for Shepard.
As they said it's not the last we've seen of him/her.

(maybe they will continue his/her story considering many of us are unhappy)

I agree about the Journal - it was one massive long list.

Took me ages to figure out what appeared where etc + some missions were basically because you overheard dialogue at the Citadel etc and just appeared.


TBH I don't think they will continue the Shepard game - the ending was a ending - what ever way you look at it he died.

The mess will have to be sorted out in DLC's or even a new series.
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Old 18-03-2012, 18:41
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I agree about the Journal - it was one massive long list.

Took me ages to figure out what appeared where etc + some missions were basically because you overheard dialogue at the Citadel etc and just appeared.


TBH I don't think they will continue the Shepard game - the ending was a ending -
what ever way you look at it he died.
The mess will have to be sorted out in DLC's or even a new series.
Not all unless you believe your theory that it's a new guy in the rubble. If they where teasing a new guy/girl they would of included same scene in each and every ending. Not in one where earth was not basically destroyed, and the one where Shepard could of lived.

The idea the Shepard is dead also destroys any good chance of a proper conclusion.
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Old 18-03-2012, 19:10
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I never saw a girl in rubble in my ending......

(is that like another way of saying 'to be continued')?
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Old 18-03-2012, 19:26
jjesso123
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I never saw a girl in rubble in my ending......

(is that like another way of saying 'to be continued')?
Depends on you ending. If you do the destroy option and get 5000 EMS (playing MU ) I think it's 7000 without. You get the ending where London is not destroyed in way. You know this as soon as you see the soldiers holding the guns and cheering. Soon after you team end up on the planet then after that you see someone in the rubble in N7 armour and he/she breathes sounding suspiciously like Shepard in me2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_8qLPQrIc 1.22 Mins in.
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