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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2)
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Zaphodski
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by tealady:
“Stupid yellow for Russell. Scotland showing again how to squander chances.
Don't think anyone was badgering the ref for Davies' offence.”

You don't think the Scottish player laying on the ground with his head in his hands looking directly at the ref was trying to influence the ref to produce a card....?
Jamesp84
15-02-2015
After Shaun Edwards' whining in the last couple of weeks about England's blocking and obstructing tactics, it's highly amusing to see Wales have a try disallowed for the same thing.
Michael_Vaughan
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by Jamesp84:
“After Shaun Edwards' whining in the last couple of weeks about England's blocking and obstructing tactics, it's highly amusing to see Wales have a try disallowed for the same thing.”

It was just easier to spot close to the line.Unlike England using up to 3 blockers anywhere on the field. Don't be surprised to see the officials notice it and heavily penalise England when they play in Dublin.

Fine Jonathon Davies try under the posts

Scotland 16-26 Wales,65 mins.
tealady
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“It was just easier to spot close to the line.Unlike England using up to 3 blockers anywhere on the field. Don't be surprised to see the officials notice it and heavily penalise England when they play in Dublin..”

Youll have a few examples from yesterday then to back that up?
Michael_Vaughan
15-02-2015
Full time

Scotland 23-26 Wales

I'll be more than happy with 3 wins from this season's tournament as a Welshman.That will still be very difficult with trips to Paris,Rome and at home to in form Ireland.
The Scotland team should've asked the ref how long was left.No guarantee they would've scored from any additional time though.
tealady
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by Zaphodski:
“You don't think the Scottish player laying on the ground with his head in his hands looking directly at the ref was trying to influence the ref to produce a card....?”

The ref approached the player and would have spoken to him to check his condition. I'm sure beattie took advantage of this but to badger would need the player to approach the ref.
tealady
15-02-2015
How many penalties do you need to concede close to the line before the ref will give a yellow?
indiana44
15-02-2015
Farcical ending.

First a Scottish player steps inside yards from an open line, is high tackled and it's a penalty, but not a penalty try ?!

Then when Scotland did score at the end, there should have clearly been time for a kick off after the final conversion when the clock should have been stopped. It probably should have been for the melee just before as well.
Michael_Vaughan
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by tealady:
“Youll have a few examples from yesterday then to back that up?”

There were plenty to choose from at the match in Cardiff if you watch it back.

England at home to Italy had less need to use them than away in Cardiff.Haskell has been a serial blocker in both games played by England.

It was one half a piece from the ref favouring home teams at the Millennium Stadium.Ireland were heavily favoured by the official at home to France and England will be heavier scrutinised with each game.
tealady
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“There were plenty to choose from at the match in Cardiff if you watch it back.”

Its down to you to back up your claim.

Edit although is not on iPlayer anymore.
Mike Teevee
15-02-2015
I can only imagine how frustrating that was to watch if you're a Scottish fan, so many chances blown.

Martyn Williams is taking the mick when he said the best team won.
Zaphodski
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by indiana44:
“Farcical ending.

First a Scottish player steps inside yards from an open line, is high tackled and it's a penalty, but not a penalty try ?!

Then when Scotland did score at the end, there should have clearly been time for a kick off after the final conversion when the clock should have been stopped. It probably should have been for the melee just before as well.”

A high tackle is when the arm is (purposely) aiming for the neck, not (accidentally) brushing over the top of his head! Just like a yellow is a barge against an aerial opponent as opposed to a mistimed tackle (just a pen)

Yes, Scotland should have been allowed a restart, however even though rugby is managed much better than football, as Wales found against Italy many years ago, the officials can still get it wrong....
indiana44
15-02-2015
Originally Posted by Zaphodski:
“A high tackle is when the arm is (purposely) aiming for the neck, not (accidentally) brushing over the top of his head! Just like a yellow is a barge against an aerial opponent as opposed to a mistimed tackle (just a pen)

Yes, Scotland should have been allowed a restart, however even though rugby is managed much better than football, as Wales found against Italy many years ago, the officials can still get it wrong....”

The fact is a penalty was given. To my mind in this instance if it was deemed a penalty it should have been a penalty try. It was surely a penalty try or no penalty at all ( and scrum to Wales for the deemed knock on ).

I am not saying it was so heinous that it deserved a yellow ( alhough cumulatively there had been a few penalty offences near the Welsh line ). But it was deemed a penalty offense ( which one can maybe debate, but I thought a fair call ) and the incident virtually certainly prevented a try - the very essence of a penalty try.
Michael_Eve
15-02-2015
Good game. Plenty of incident. Having suffered through losing at home to England, hoped Wales would bounce back and personally think we just about edged it over the 80 minutes. I like Scotland (generally) and their team is going in the right direction (unlucky against France) so didn't feel quite so stressed and tense this time out. If Scotland had nicked it, I would've been okay with it. Lord knows what France will turn up in a couple of weeks.
Finny Skeleta
15-02-2015
Wales got away with that one.

It reminded me of back in the early 2000s when Wales were starting to be a bit good but when we played teams who were supposed to be our 'betters' and we would play well but not quite win.

Wales won that one on reputation and a few 'They're the good side, let's give them some good decisions' refereeing
Kierenj
16-02-2015
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“There were plenty to choose from at the match in Cardiff if you watch it back.

England at home to Italy had less need to use them than away in Cardiff.Haskell has been a serial blocker in both games played by England.
”

really? really? You're going with this now? If that was the case more would have been made of it. Absolutely the right call with the disallowed try in Cardiff (although incorrect use of the law by the ref, but correct outcome I suppose). Player are running in front for definite but it's so far from the gain line it can't be interfering with play.

2 weeks now for Ireland to take a look at the tapes and get Heaslip fit (although apparently might be a broken vertebrae), England could do with Lawes or Parling and Corbs back; hopefully two weeks is enough time to get Mike Brown back on the pitch.
tealady
17-02-2015
I see that Pape and Russell have both been cited, though why the BBC call Pape's 'alleged' when he received a yellow card for precisely using his knee is lost on me.
CGG_12
17-02-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“really? really? You're going with this now? If that was the case more would have been made of it. Absolutely the right call with the disallowed try in Cardiff (although incorrect use of the law by the ref, but correct outcome I suppose). Player are running in front for definite but it's so far from the gain line it can't be interfering with play.

2 weeks now for Ireland to take a look at the tapes and get Heaslip fit (although apparently might be a broken vertebrae), England could do with Lawes or Parling and Corbs back; hopefully two weeks is enough time to get Mike Brown back on the pitch.”

Heaslip is gone, Jordi Murphy to come in. Huge loss.

England will probably be unchanged with Goode on standby to come in for Brown I'd imagine. Probably a bit too soon for Lawes to start and the starting two have deputised well.

Big call for Ireland on McGrath or Healy
Kierenj
18-02-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Heaslip is gone, Jordi Murphy to come in. Huge loss.

England will probably be unchanged with Goode on standby to come in for Brown I'd imagine. Probably a bit too soon for Lawes to start and the starting two have deputised well.

Big call for Ireland on McGrath or Healy”

That's a shame about Heaslip, love watching him play. At his best he reminds me of Spies or Read... Still, with Billy in for Morgan it isn't too big.

Agree on the rest, would like to see Lawes on the bench perhaps, Easter isn't really filling me with confidence there if we had an injury in the first half to 4 or 5.

Please let's see Corbs on the bench at least...
CGG_12
18-02-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“That's a shame about Heaslip, love watching him play. At his best he reminds me of Spies or Read... Still, with Billy in for Morgan it isn't too big.

Agree on the rest, would like to see Lawes on the bench perhaps, Easter isn't really filling me with confidence there if we had an injury in the first half to 4 or 5.

Please let's see Corbs on the bench at least...”

Yeah Heaslip is an outstanding, consistent player alright and I cannot believe Lancaster for one second when he claims this doesn't give England a huge boost. Heaslip after Sexton and along with Murray may well just be Ireland's most irreplacable player at the moment.

Credit to Heaslip for showing such class too in accepting Pape's apology on Twitter. The cynics will no doubt claim Pape's tweet is more a PR driven apology and one to hopefully reduce his ban, but I do believe it was sincere and that he didn't genuinely want to hurt him. Appalling act but players can do daft things in the heat of the moment and he has a good disciplinary record in general. Sit out the rest of the tournament is enough punishment I think

Yeah, I think Corbs is certainly the better option than Mako though Stuart is renowned for rigidly keeping faith with a winning team/bench from game to game (even if he rings the changes from campaign to campaign!!). I see only the one change with Lawes benching for Croft, although Tom Wood might make the bench also. Of course this is depending on Brown's injury

Brown hasn't lived up to the heights of last year's tournament since but seems to be finding top form again, so he'd be a huge blow. I've watched a lot of Goode this season though and he may well be playing his very best Rugby. Only for MB was player of tournament last year, Goode may well have forced his way in to the 15 for the Wales match based on club form and the fact Brown had quite an iffy Autumn. however seeing Brown in the Welsh match just re-emphasises his importance and when he's on top form there's few full backs as good in the world

A lot are calling for Ashton or Wade to be drafted straight in on the wing though I can't see Lancaster deserting May now. May right now is what Ashton was two years ago, in that is almost seems fashionable to criticise him ad nauseum. He's incredibly dangerous though and as an Irish man I just get this awful feeling a fired up May (in a bid to shut up the doubters) will come out all guns blazing and run riot in Dublin, it very often happens when a guy is written off

For Ireland as I say Murphy should come straight in at 8, with Schmidt facing a tough call between McGrath and Healy. Besides that, it's as you were really

A week and a half is way too bloody long!!
CGG_12
19-02-2015
Cipriani signs two year deal at Sale, turning down a big money move to Toulon

No doubt wants a World Cup spot but good to see he's going to commit his future to England aswell and the club that backed him

Treated awfully by Johnson, but I wouldn't expect much else from as clueless and as horrendous a coach as that
CGG_12
20-02-2015
Lancaster has released about 18 players to go back to clubs this weekend with only 16 retained.

The starting 15 for both first two matches plus Billy Twelvetrees have been kept on. Jack Nowell originally had been kept on but now has been released and will start for Exeter tomorrow.

Reading between the lines it looks like one change anyway with Nowell to start for May. I can't see him going with Lawes from the beginning

Twelvetrees is interesting, is he being kept on as a possible replacement for Brown, should the latter not make it? With JJ to wing and Watson full back? Surely it makes more sense parachute Alex Goode straight back in.

Lanacster has a few interesting calls to make.

I still expect Ireland to only make the one enforced change at number 8, with Schmidt keeping faith with Jack McGrath. Naturally we'll all be sweating tomorrow watching Metro, hoping Sexton comes through unscathed! He definitely needs the match practice though

For anyone interested last year's encounter is on YouTube. Cracking war of attrition, with England just about coming out on top. Few notes from it, how good were the Quins trio of Robshaw, Care and Brown? Joe Launchbury and Courtney Lawes are potentially the best second row pairing in World Rugby and are vital to England's World Cup cause. Jack Nowell is an exciting yet inexperienced winger. England really should be looking elsewhere to replace May says this observer. Twelvetrees gets through so much unnoticed work.
Dave Kearney is very under-rated and had a super game for Ireland. BOD even well past his peak was some warrior around the pitch. Peter O'Mahony is one hell of a workhorse and may well be the Lions number 6 tomorrow

The game itself was incredibly low scoring and tense, expect the same for next week with maybe even a refereeing error or moment of magic from someone being the difference! The bookies can't separate them and you can see why. Roll on next week!!
Kierenj
23-02-2015
I agree with you on Lawes and Launchbury, I think they were England's best players next year. I'm excited and nervous about this weekend, I thought we'd lose to Wales but in true English style now we've won I've started to get my hopes up. That said, Ireland have just beaten France, they beat Australia and South Africa last year and no doubt that Schmidt is a great coach. Sexton with 2 more weeks of recovery and some up tempo training could take the game away very quickly.

I really hope it doesn't come down to the refereeing, do we know if it's Owens? I think he's the best ref in the game.

Not sure what to make of May, he absolutely butchered a chance last week which was inforgiveable, but then created Cipriani's try out of very little so it's almost as if he has great potential still but needs time on the pitch. I don't think Nowell is an upgrade but I don't see much of either of them to be honest.
CGG_12
23-02-2015
looks like Brown will miss the match on Sunday

Alex Goode to come straight into the team, quality replacement in fairness
Mike Teevee
24-02-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“looks like Brown will miss the match on Sunday

Alex Goode to come straight into the team, quality replacement in fairness”

Anyone but Goode please, he'd be my third choice at best FB (Foden would be there if not injured).

I'd rather Elliot Daly be given a chance, but I don't think England are paying him any attention.
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