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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2) |
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#4076 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,451
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Quote:
Should the competition revert to the 5 nations and Italy be left out in the interests of fairness ?
At the moment the Six Nations is a closed shop between the six highest rugby markets in Europe. It also happens to be, at the moment, between the six best teams in Europe according to WR's rankings (Ie 3, En 4, Wa 5, Fr 7, Sc 10, It 14). However, Georgia are 15th and Romania 17th. If they get within sniffing distance of Italy's coefficient there should be a serious discussion about allowing these teams the opportunity to at least play the big boys. Trouble is, rugby likes ring-fencing. The Pro12 and SupeRugby are both closed shops. The Premiership soon will be if the money men keep talking, and it took years of negotiations to allow Argentina the opportunity to play regular Tier 1 test rugby. So asking the likes of Italy and Scotland (and indeed, if they have a bad year, Wales or France) to slip down and play against Germany, Belgium or Moldova would be like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Outside of money, the issue is structure and logistics. The European Nations Cup (Six Nations B) operates on a slightly different system to the Tier 1 tournament in that it is a 2-year season to allow the mostly amateur, less-organised countries to stage fixtures on a more fluid, ad-hoc basis within the IRB allotted test windows. There are 7 divisions spread over Tiers 2 and 3 with teams ranging from 7-time ENC champs Georgia to 93rd-ranked team Greece. Division 1A contains the usual suspects - Georgia, Russia, Portugal, Spain, Romania and surprise package Germany who, last time were at this level, got the wooden spoon which, when you think about it, is quite an achievement (if that's the right word) in a 6-team H&A 10-game tournament. (Just to give it some perspective in a week where points make prizes, their cumulative PD for that season was -403.) Now I'm not saying it's right to have teams that can bring so little into the game commercially replace the likes of Italy and Scotland. For one thing it would kill the game in Italy stone dead, in a country where their footballers are gods and they struggle to put together two "regions" to "compete" in the Pro12. Anyone else remember Aironi? One wonders what Calvisano and Viadana are up to nowadays. Also it would be unfair to Scotland's history as one of the great 5/6N teams to have an empty Murrayfield half-heartedly cheer on the boys in dark blue running try after try past Portugal's relatively hapless amateurs. But perhaps that sort of bitter medicine and the cold hand of relegation resting softly on the shoulders of the blazers at FIR, SRU, FFR and even WRU could be the impetus they need to up their game. Something needs to be done, because at the moment I cannot for the life of me see either Italy or Scotland challenging for the title. They seem more interested nowadays in avoiding the wooden spoon. When your entire season rests on trying NOT to lose one game, as opposed to trying to WIN some of the other four, something's up. And the daft thing is, Scotland in particular have shown it CAN be done! Over the past decade, they've beaten Australia, South Africa, Ireland 4 times, Argentina 5 times....and there's not many teams that will hold the All Blacks to an 8pt lead. The ability, depth, talent and coaching is there somewhere inamongst the carcrash. Being a Scottish rugby fan nowadays must be like what it was like to be Welsh in the 80s and 90s -- frustrating, annoying and despairing. There's not even hope any more because they dare not dream because they know, 8 times out of 10, they'll be disappointed. So should there be promotion and relegation? Of course - for sporting reasons, for the growth of the game, for the increased pressure and heightening of competition, for the aspirational aims of the lower-ranked teams. Will there be? Not on your nelly. 6N is a closed shop. We've got 3 or 4 teams going through the motions every Spring now. England ride on a crest of mediocre performances just good enough to win games but not championships. The early '00s seem so long ago, don't they? Jaded opposition audiences who need no additional reason to hate the men in white, opinion formers and fans are all spurred on by a circle-jerking old-boy broadsheet media and their unashamed cheerleaders at the BBC. And for what? Sweet FA. (Unless PD goes in their favour next week, in which case, slightly less than sweet FA) From an outsiders' perspective they focus more on World Cups and SH tours, and less on the 6N, seeing it as a pesky distraction from European Club Domination (which, as we've seen, is going well.....erm....) Ireland turn up every year predicting great things yet somehow have only taken home the trophy twice in the 6N era, and only done the Slam once. They came dangerously close to "relegation" in '13, with a 1-1-3 record. There's an excellent article on Irish hubris on the Irish Independent website, if you can read it through the tears of laughter after seeing the headline about Gatland having the intellectual capacity of a tub of margarine. France have gone backwards - from being a team to fear to being Les Fous - the jokers in the pack. The Stade De France is quickly becoming a white elephant - a place where matches are played in freezing temperatures to disinterested audiences who turn up for the sheer hell of it. No shape, no substance and completely unpredictable. How the hell they keep getting to World Cup finals is beyond me. Perhaps all teams should adapt a laissez-faire attitude. Seems to work. And then there's the Welsh. The ULTIMATE frustration of a team. Everything that's wrong with rugby in one group of lads. Talented, immense, fit, strong and passionate, yet they lost to England. And can't beat Australia. And make grown, strong men cry into our pints of Brains. Maybe we put too much pressure and expectation on them. Maybe we believe Gatland's psuedo-bullsh*t. That's the trouble with religion - it's inconsistent. One minute you believe in a saviour, the next he's a vengeful smiter. Will that World Cup semi final be another flash in the pan, or can we sustain that ability? Who knows. I didn't intend to write this much when I started out. But then, I thought it would be close against Ireland yesterday. My mate Justyn who, bless him, knows little-to-f-all about rugby, said Wales would win by 7. He got it spot on. Perhaps he should be here trying to bore you all to tears. For me, I now have the unenviable task of supporting Scotland and France in an Irish bar in England next week. Wish me lwc! |
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#4077 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Ireland turn up every year predicting great things yet somehow have only taken home the trophy twice in the 6N era, and only done the Slam once. They came dangerously close to "relegation" in '13, with a 1-1-3 record. There's an excellent article on Irish hubris on the Irish Independent website, if you can read it through the tears of laughter after seeing the headline about Gatland having the intellectual capacity of a tub of margarine. |
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#4078 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: durty sarf london
Posts: 16,241
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BT Sport agree 6-year deal to continue coverage of Premiership Quote:
Live games will increase to 80 per season from 2017-18 under the deal, reportedly worth in excess of £152m. ------Mark McCafferty, chief executive of Premiership Rugby, said: "This announcement is another indication of the current strength of English rugby." In addition to live games, the deal includes extended highlights rights for all 135 Premiership matches per season from 2015-16, live broadcast rights to matches from the Singha Premiership Rugby 7s Series until the end of the 2020-21 season, and midweek previews and match reviews. McCafferty added: "This is the longest TV agreement in the history of Premiership Rugby. Great for the top clubs, not so good for the Championship club if there's no promotion. |
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#4079 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 511
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Quote:
BT Sport agree 6-year deal to continue coverage of Premiership
------ Great for the top clubs, not so good for the Championship club if there's no promotion. Share owners Bristol, Worcester and Leeds/Yorkshire will go up. The door will be closed and maybe revisited at a time where a Championship side can lay claim to going up. At the moment, I'd say that'd be London Scottish and Cornish Pirates, both subject to getting new stadia. |
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#4080 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: durty sarf london
Posts: 16,241
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Quote:
No. What should happen is promotion and relegation. But it can't. At least, not overnight.
At the moment the Six Nations is a closed shop between the six highest rugby markets in Europe. It also happens to be, at the moment, between the six best teams in Europe according to WR's rankings (Ie 3, En 4, Wa 5, Fr 7, Sc 10, It 14). However, Georgia are 15th and Romania 17th. If they get within sniffing distance of Italy's coefficient there should be a serious discussion about allowing these teams the opportunity to at least play the big boys. .... .... .... But perhaps that sort of bitter medicine and the cold hand of relegation resting softly on the shoulders of the blazers at FIR, SRU, FFR and even WRU could be the impetus they need to up their game. Something needs to be done, because at the moment I cannot for the life of me see either Italy or Scotland challenging for the title. They seem more interested nowadays in avoiding the wooden spoon. When your entire season rests on trying NOT to lose one game, as opposed to trying to WIN some of the other four, something's up. It's comical to point of annoying how bad Italy's kicking is. If you can't rely on your flyhalf, full back or whoever to kick you points, then you don't stand the chance of ever putting decent sustain pressure on your opponents. They gave Ireland a good game for 50-60 minutes, then had a player yellow card and collapsed. A proper system needs be put in place to find and train decent Italian rugby players. Watching the Six Nations Forum on the red button yesterday if was interesting to know that Italy have actually been more successful in their 15 year stretch of Six Nations than France were when they joined the old Five Nations. Also there is a clear(ish) gap between Italy and the next tier of nations looking to join the party. Italy earned the right to be part of the tournament, they need to just improve their infrastructure so they progress. Better targets than 'beating Scotland' need to be in place. It's not that fanciful to target top 3, then runners up and then a tournament win over a 5 year period. Promotion and relegation seems like a nice idea in theory, the problem is working out how it would happen in practice. If there was a play off between Italy and Georgia/Romania/whoever and Italy kept on winning it would make the process seem redundant. If there was a straight promotion and the team replacing bottom placed team just got caned each week, what would that achieve? Keith Wood made the good point that the second tier teams need to have more matches against tier 1 teams. Instead of always having summer tours to SH or AI matches only featuring South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and whoever ever has been cherry picked for the odd game, the SH and Six Nations teams should regularly play Romania, Georgia, Russia etc. It can be a bit stale watching SH teams every Autumn, mix it up a little. |
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#4081 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 511
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Quote:
I dunno I think Italy have tried to actually play rugby since Nick Mallett left, but the problem is they don't have the players (or least the depth of players).
It's comical to point of annoying how bad Italy's kicking is. If you can't rely on your flyhalf, full back or whoever to kick you points, then you don't stand the chance of ever putting decent sustain pressure on your opponents. They gave Ireland a good game for 50-60 minutes, then had a player yellow card and collapsed. A proper system needs be put in place to find and train decent Italian rugby players. Watching the Six Nations Forum on the red button yesterday if was interesting to know that Italy have actually been more successful in their 15 year stretch of Six Nations than France were when they joined the old Five Nations. Also there is a clear(ish) gap between Italy and the next tier of nations looking to join the party. Italy earned the right to be part of the tournament, they need to just improve their infrastructure so they progress. Better targets than 'beating Scotland' need to be in place. It's not that fanciful to target top 3, then runners up and then a tournament win over a 5 year period. Promotion and relegation seems like a nice idea in theory, the problem is working out how it would happen in practice. If there was a play off between Italy and Georgia/Romania/whoever and Italy kept on winning it would make the process seem redundant. If there was a straight promotion and the team replacing bottom placed team just got caned each week, what would that achieve? Keith Wood made the good point that the second tier teams need to have more matches against tier 1 teams. Instead of always having summer tours to SH or AI matches only featuring South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and whoever ever has been cherry picked for the odd game, the SH and Six Nations teams should regularly play Romania, Georgia, Russia etc. It can be a bit stale watching SH teams every Autumn, mix it up a little. |
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#4082 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cork, Ireland.
Posts: 9,250
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Apparently Ireland's Rob Kearney has come out and said "Thankfully I don't have to write a referee's assessment" over Wayne Barnes refereeing of last Saturdays game with Wales
![]() Ireland have only won 4/13 games officiated by Barnes - reports coming out the Irish management are far from happy with a few decisions... I would imagine the scrum has absolutely incensed them. |
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#4083 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Apparently Ireland's Rob Kearney has come out and said "Thankfully I don't have to write a referee's assessment" over Wayne Barnes refereeing of last Saturdays game with Wales
![]() Ireland have only won 4/13 games officiated by Barnes - reports coming out the Irish management are far from happy with a few decisions... I would imagine the scrum has absolutely incensed them. Better team won. End of As for Rob Kearney, think he needs to look at his own performances rather than the referees. |
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#4084 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Anyhow...
Who are we backing for the Championship? Most exciting last day of 6nations action ever, I won't leave the couch all day Genuinely I can see a case for all 3 teams. I'm gonna side with England though. I think they'll just do enough I fancy Wales by at least 30 though, so I think they're going to ensure Ireland and England will have to chase a points difference when they both take to the field Does anyone see any of the 3 losing? I'm far from convinced Ireland v Scotland is a foregone conclusion. Can France suddenly find some form? Cannot wait |
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#4085 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cork, Ireland.
Posts: 9,250
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Quote:
C'mon man let it go
Better team won. End of As for Rob Kearney, think he needs to look at his own performances rather than the referees.
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#4086 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cork, Ireland.
Posts: 9,250
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Quote:
Anyhow...
Who are we backing for the Championship? Most exciting last day of 6nations action ever, I won't leave the couch all day Genuinely I can see a case for all 3 teams. I'm gonna side with England though. I think they'll just do enough I fancy Wales by at least 30 though, so I think they're going to ensure Ireland and England will have to chase a points difference when they both take to the field Does anyone see any of the 3 losing? I'm far from convinced Ireland v Scotland is a foregone conclusion. Can France suddenly find some form? Cannot wait |
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#4087 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Think Ireland could put Scotland to the sword if they turn up...
We never seem to perform in Edinburgh. Scotland have only lost by single figures in every match bar England but that was away. They're plucky at home. We've only gotten 4 tries too Hope you're right ![]() I think ireland will need to win by at least 20 though. Certainly not impossible, but it's a big ask |
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#4088 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Ha I was just letting people know what he said ... seemingly the camp is conceding the best team won on the day but Mr Barnes and his refereeing of the actual game did not help matters
![]() Going watching Against the Head now, be interesting to see the opinions of the match and predictions for next week |
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#4089 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cork, Ireland.
Posts: 9,250
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Quote:
I don't know
We never seem to perform in Edinburgh. Scotland have only lost by single figures in every match bar England but that was away. They're plucky at home. We've only gotten 4 tries too Hope you're right ![]() I think ireland will need to win by at least 20 though. Certainly not impossible, but it's a big ask
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#4090 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Think we'll get a big response - that will have hurt on Saturday - probably POC's last crack at the grand slam too
![]() That in itself shows how tight it is What a days' rugby we are in for Sat. I cannot wait |
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#4091 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,487
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Quote:
No. What should happen is promotion and relegation. But it can't. At least, not overnight.
At the moment the Six Nations is a closed shop between the six highest rugby markets in Europe. It also happens to be, at the moment, between the six best teams in Europe according to WR's rankings (Ie 3, En 4, Wa 5, Fr 7, Sc 10, It 14). However, Georgia are 15th and Romania 17th. If they get within sniffing distance of Italy's coefficient there should be a serious discussion about allowing these teams the opportunity to at least play the big boys. Trouble is, rugby likes ring-fencing. The Pro12 and SupeRugby are both closed shops. The Premiership soon will be if the money men keep talking, and it took years of negotiations to allow Argentina the opportunity to play regular Tier 1 test rugby. So asking the likes of Italy and Scotland (and indeed, if they have a bad year, Wales or France) to slip down and play against Germany, Belgium or Moldova would be like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Outside of money, the issue is structure and logistics. The European Nations Cup (Six Nations B) operates on a slightly different system to the Tier 1 tournament in that it is a 2-year season to allow the mostly amateur, less-organised countries to stage fixtures on a more fluid, ad-hoc basis within the IRB allotted test windows. There are 7 divisions spread over Tiers 2 and 3 with teams ranging from 7-time ENC champs Georgia to 93rd-ranked team Greece. Division 1A contains the usual suspects - Georgia, Russia, Portugal, Spain, Romania and surprise package Germany who, last time were at this level, got the wooden spoon which, when you think about it, is quite an achievement (if that's the right word) in a 6-team H&A 10-game tournament. (Just to give it some perspective in a week where points make prizes, their cumulative PD for that season was -403.) Now I'm not saying it's right to have teams that can bring so little into the game commercially replace the likes of Italy and Scotland. For one thing it would kill the game in Italy stone dead, in a country where their footballers are gods and they struggle to put together two "regions" to "compete" in the Pro12. Anyone else remember Aironi? One wonders what Calvisano and Viadana are up to nowadays. Also it would be unfair to Scotland's history as one of the great 5/6N teams to have an empty Murrayfield half-heartedly cheer on the boys in dark blue running try after try past Portugal's relatively hapless amateurs. But perhaps that sort of bitter medicine and the cold hand of relegation resting softly on the shoulders of the blazers at FIR, SRU, FFR and even WRU could be the impetus they need to up their game. Something needs to be done, because at the moment I cannot for the life of me see either Italy or Scotland challenging for the title. They seem more interested nowadays in avoiding the wooden spoon. When your entire season rests on trying NOT to lose one game, as opposed to trying to WIN some of the other four, something's up. And the daft thing is, Scotland in particular have shown it CAN be done! Over the past decade, they've beaten Australia, South Africa, Ireland 4 times, Argentina 5 times....and there's not many teams that will hold the All Blacks to an 8pt lead. The ability, depth, talent and coaching is there somewhere inamongst the carcrash. Being a Scottish rugby fan nowadays must be like what it was like to be Welsh in the 80s and 90s -- frustrating, annoying and despairing. There's not even hope any more because they dare not dream because they know, 8 times out of 10, they'll be disappointed. So should there be promotion and relegation? Of course - for sporting reasons, for the growth of the game, for the increased pressure and heightening of competition, for the aspirational aims of the lower-ranked teams. Will there be? Not on your nelly. 6N is a closed shop. We've got 3 or 4 teams going through the motions every Spring now. England ride on a crest of mediocre performances just good enough to win games but not championships. The early '00s seem so long ago, don't they? Jaded opposition audiences who need no additional reason to hate the men in white, opinion formers and fans are all spurred on by a circle-jerking old-boy broadsheet media and their unashamed cheerleaders at the BBC. And for what? Sweet FA. (Unless PD goes in their favour next week, in which case, slightly less than sweet FA) From an outsiders' perspective they focus more on World Cups and SH tours, and less on the 6N, seeing it as a pesky distraction from European Club Domination (which, as we've seen, is going well.....erm....) Ireland turn up every year predicting great things yet somehow have only taken home the trophy twice in the 6N era, and only done the Slam once. They came dangerously close to "relegation" in '13, with a 1-1-3 record. There's an excellent article on Irish hubris on the Irish Independent website, if you can read it through the tears of laughter after seeing the headline about Gatland having the intellectual capacity of a tub of margarine. France have gone backwards - from being a team to fear to being Les Fous - the jokers in the pack. The Stade De France is quickly becoming a white elephant - a place where matches are played in freezing temperatures to disinterested audiences who turn up for the sheer hell of it. No shape, no substance and completely unpredictable. How the hell they keep getting to World Cup finals is beyond me. Perhaps all teams should adapt a laissez-faire attitude. Seems to work. And then there's the Welsh. The ULTIMATE frustration of a team. Everything that's wrong with rugby in one group of lads. Talented, immense, fit, strong and passionate, yet they lost to England. And can't beat Australia. And make grown, strong men cry into our pints of Brains. Maybe we put too much pressure and expectation on them. Maybe we believe Gatland's psuedo-bullsh*t. That's the trouble with religion - it's inconsistent. One minute you believe in a saviour, the next he's a vengeful smiter. Will that World Cup semi final be another flash in the pan, or can we sustain that ability? Who knows. I didn't intend to write this much when I started out. But then, I thought it would be close against Ireland yesterday. My mate Justyn who, bless him, knows little-to-f-all about rugby, said Wales would win by 7. He got it spot on. Perhaps he should be here trying to bore you all to tears. For me, I now have the unenviable task of supporting Scotland and France in an Irish bar in England next week. Wish me lwc! Scotland are capable of beating any team on the day but seem incapable in the 6 Nation era of stringing enough wins on the trot to win a trophy . They fared better when it was 5 Nations . Although a supporter of Ireland I would love to see Scotland come back to top form again . It would be better for the competition as a whole . |
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#4092 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: nottingham
Posts: 9,460
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I don't think the England France game is anything like a formality for England. England have had a huge struggle to create chances and even when they did , against Scotland , couldn't put them all away. Mike Brown was very disappointing to be caught twice when going for the line. France are not going to give England those chances, so I reckon it will be a very tight game . Don't forget , France hammered Italy and played well below their best.
Just seen an excellent BBC programme about Willie John McBride, now on I Player . Some great old clips, and stuff about the troubles in Belfast which affected Willie John. A cameo appearance from JPR who looks quite bizarre these days |
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#4093 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
I don't think the England France game is anything like a formality for England. England have had a huge struggle to create chances and even when they did , against Scotland , couldn't put them all away. Mike Brown was very disappointing to be caught twice when going for the line. France are not going to give England those chances, so I reckon it will be a very tight game . Don't forget , France hammered Italy and played well below their best.
Just seen an excellent BBC programme about Willie John McBride, now on I Player . Some great old clips, and stuff about the troubles in Belfast which affected Willie John. A cameo appearance from JPR who looks quite bizarre these days Also England have probably created the most chances all tournament they've no problem creating them, finishing them is another thing. Yet they mightn't even need to finish half the chances they create sat to win the championship
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#4094 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 511
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Quote:
Great post Meic . Italy have progressed very little since joining the 6 Nations . Beating one or two teams a season is not good enough . I would love to see Georgia or Romania given a chance in the 6 Nations . Would a 7 Nation trophy be a step too far .
Scotland are capable of beating any team on the day but seem incapable in the 6 Nation era of stringing enough wins on the trot to win a trophy . They fared better when it was 5 Nations . Although a supporter of Ireland I would love to see Scotland come back to top form again . It would be better for the competition as a whole . |
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#4095 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,277
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Quote:
Great post Meic . Italy have progressed very little since joining the 6 Nations . Beating one or two teams a season is not good enough . I would love to see Georgia or Romania given a chance in the 6 Nations . Would a 7 Nation trophy be a step too far .
Scotland are capable of beating any team on the day but seem incapable in the 6 Nation era of stringing enough wins on the trot to win a trophy . They fared better when it was 5 Nations . Although a supporter of Ireland I would love to see Scotland come back to top form again . It would be better for the competition as a whole . You'd think that Italy are alone in conceding 20 to 40 points, score single figures in a match and pick up less than 3 wins in a 6 nations season the way some people go on. In fact in the same weekend there's sometimes instances where one team has scored less points and another team conceded more points in a match than Italy (in fact scoring more points away than another team at home and conceding less points at home than another team away on some weekends.) How does that make Italy any more uncompetitive than those 2 other teams who have lost? For people to suggest that Italy are uncompetitive is ridiculous. When any other team concede 35 points in a match nobody says anything, but when Italy have done the same 35 points concession at the end of the match the same people who said nothing about others conceding 35 says they're the worst team ever and we should go back to the old 5 nations again. Losing heavily happens to every team after all. |
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#4096 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: durty sarf london
Posts: 16,241
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Quote:
Great post Meic . Italy have progressed very little since joining the 6 Nations . Beating one or two teams a season is not good enough . I would love to see Georgia or Romania given a chance in the 6 Nations . Would a 7 Nation trophy be a step too far .
Scotland are capable of beating any team on the day but seem incapable in the 6 Nation era of stringing enough wins on the trot to win a trophy . They fared better when it was 5 Nations . Although a supporter of Ireland I would love to see Scotland come back to top form again . It would be better for the competition as a whole . I don't think dumping them out of tournament after 15 years will make things better, especially as there's nothing to suggest Romania or Georgia will do better. Italy need to build a decent infrastructure and develop more home grown players. Not everyone can play football, so why not convince those that don't make it to try rugby? |
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#4097 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Central Belt
Posts: 12,277
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Quote:
I dunno I think Italy have tried to actually play rugby since Nick Mallett left, but the problem is they don't have the players (or least the depth of players).
It's comical to point of annoying how bad Italy's kicking is. If you can't rely on your flyhalf, full back or whoever to kick you points, then you don't stand the chance of ever putting decent sustain pressure on your opponents. They gave Ireland a good game for 50-60 minutes, then had a player yellow card and collapsed. A proper system needs be put in place to find and train decent Italian rugby players. Watching the Six Nations Forum on the red button yesterday if was interesting to know that Italy have actually been more successful in their 15 year stretch of Six Nations than France were when they joined the old Five Nations. Also there is a clear(ish) gap between Italy and the next tier of nations looking to join the party. Italy earned the right to be part of the tournament, they need to just improve their infrastructure so they progress. Better targets than 'beating Scotland' need to be in place. It's not that fanciful to target top 3, then runners up and then a tournament win over a 5 year period. Promotion and relegation seems like a nice idea in theory, the problem is working out how it would happen in practice. If there was a play off between Italy and Georgia/Romania/whoever and Italy kept on winning it would make the process seem redundant. If there was a straight promotion and the team replacing bottom placed team just got caned each week, what would that achieve? Keith Wood made the good point that the second tier teams need to have more matches against tier 1 teams. Instead of always having summer tours to SH or AI matches only featuring South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and whoever ever has been cherry picked for the odd game, the SH and Six Nations teams should regularly play Romania, Georgia, Russia etc. It can be a bit stale watching SH teams every Autumn, mix it up a little. To successfully cover the loss of a man as though the dismissal never happened and still come back to win the match is near impossible at such an international level. The loss of a player with no replacement possible is a devastating blow for any team. |
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#4098 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: durty sarf london
Posts: 16,241
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Team news
England: M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), G Parling (Leicester), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens). Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), N Easter (Harlequins), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester). France: S Spedding, Y Huget, G Fickou, M Mermoz, N Nakaitaci, J Plisson, S Tillous-Borde, V Debaty, G Guirado, N Mas, A Flanquart, Y Maestri, T Dusautoir (capt), B Leroux, L Goujon. Replacements: B Kayser, R Slimani, U Atonio, R Taofifenua, D Chouly, R Kockott, R Tales, M Bastareaud. |
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#4099 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
Team news
England: M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), G Parling (Leicester), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens). Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), N Easter (Harlequins), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester). France: S Spedding, Y Huget, G Fickou, M Mermoz, N Nakaitaci, J Plisson, S Tillous-Borde, V Debaty, G Guirado, N Mas, A Flanquart, Y Maestri, T Dusautoir (capt), B Leroux, L Goujon. Replacements: B Kayser, R Slimani, U Atonio, R Taofifenua, D Chouly, R Kockott, R Tales, M Bastareaud. |
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#4100 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 7,470
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Parisse out for Italy and Haimona starts out half
Christmas really has come early for the Welsh Their job just got a hell of a lot easier, can see them winning by 50 tbh |
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they've no problem creating them, finishing them is another thing. Yet they mightn't even need to finish half the chances they create sat to win the championship