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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2)
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CGG_12
07-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“
It's not like this rule was suddenly invented after Steffon or Nick moved to France, they went there fully knowing the situation and did so anyway. I'd be annoyed if I was Brown, Foden, Goode getting replaced at the last minute because Abendanon got parachuted in. The same for Vunipola or Morgan if Armitage replaced them at 8.”

Would ya stop there's no room for feeling sorry for guys and sentiment you pick your best players available and that's that!

Foden is about 6th or 7th in the pecking order by now so he doesn't have much to feel upset about

Fair enough drop Foreign based players for 6n & Autumn Internationals and all that if you want (unlike Wales and Ireland), but you really should be picking your best players for RWC tbh
Mike Teevee
07-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Would ya stop there's no room for feeling sorry for guys and sentiment you pick your best players available and that's that!

Foden is about 6th or 7th in the pecking order by now so he doesn't have much to feel upset about

Fair enough drop Foreign based players for 6n & Autumn Internationals and all that if you want (unlike Wales and Ireland), but you really should be picking your best players for RWC tbh”

I suppose that depends on whether you think they're England's best players in those positions.

Mike Brown was overall player of 6N tournament last year, so I don't think there's much between him and Abendanon.

Robshaw (when the media debate was about Armitage playing 7) hasn't let the side and his stats more than prove that. Morgan and Vunipola have equally been great for England playing at 8.

Also how rubbish would be be to use Armitage for only RWC and then turn around and say "you can get lost now". It would be insulting for him and whichever player he was displacing from the squad.
CGG_12
07-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“I suppose that depends on whether you think they're England's best players in those positions.

Mike Brown was overall player of 6N tournament last year, so I don't think there's much between him and Abendanon.

Robshaw (when the media debate was about Armitage playing 7) hasn't let the side and his stats more than prove that. Morgan and Vunipola have equally been great for England playing at 8.

Also how rubbish would be be to use Armitage for only RWC and then turn around and say "you can get lost now". It would be insulting for him and whichever player he was displacing from the squad.”

Mike Brown was player of 6 nations in March 2014. wasn't Danny Care nominated? he isn't in squad these days.

Abendanon has been arguably Clermont's player of 2015

You (you're not the only one) seem to get a bit hung up on 'upsetting' or 'disappointing' players, but who cares? If you're good enough, you're good enough. No one has a divine right to a place in the team

F@@k upsetting people if it means a RWC title
Mike Teevee
07-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Mike Brown was player of 6 nations in March 2014. wasn't Danny Care nominated? he isn't in squad these days.

Abendanon has been arguably Clermont's player of 2015

You (you're not the only one) seem to get a bit hung up on 'upsetting' or 'disappointing' players, but who cares? If you're good enough, you're good enough. No one has a divine right to a place in the team

F@@k upsetting people if it means a RWC title”

Maybe upsetting is the wrong word for the point I was trying to make. More what's the point of any English player bothering to stay here and qualify, when you can just leave for France and leapfrog those earned their place in the squad.

Hurt feelings wasn't the point I was trying to make (apologies for the way it was worded).
CGG_12
07-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“Maybe upsetting is the wrong word for the point I was trying to make. More what's the point of any English player bothering to stay here and qualify, when you can just leave for France and leapfrog those earned their place in the squad.

Hurt feelings wasn't the point I was trying to make (apologies for the way it was worded).”

Well if they're only eligible for a RWC and that's if they are in 'exceptional' form, then they'll only have a chance at best every 4 years

If you want to play in 6n, Autumn Tests etc then play in England

There's no team on planet earth that wouldn't take Steffon in a heartbeat though for example. It really is an 'exceptional' case. It's not calling up a Dave Attwood impersonator for example
Kierenj
08-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Mike Brown was player of 6 nations in March 2014. wasn't Danny Care nominated? he isn't in squad these days.

Abendanon has been arguably Clermont's player of 2015

You (you're not the only one) seem to get a bit hung up on 'upsetting' or 'disappointing' players, but who cares? If you're good enough, you're good enough. No one has a divine right to a place in the team

F@@k upsetting people if it means a RWC title”

Abendanon has been good but not even close to their best player this year. He looked good at the weekend going forward but that's never been his problem, it's his defence that has always been suspect and I've not seen anything to dispel that yet. Another like JSD and you could even go to Sackey and Varndell of players who look great at club level and light up their league but aren't cut out for test rugby.

Armitage isn't a better 8 than Morgan or Vunipola, he was Toulon's player of the year last year, the same argument you've used when referencing Brown. Robshaw is going nowhere whilst fit and as others have mentioned the stats don't lie, he was the outstanding 7 of the 6N.

All of that said, I didn't realise the training squat was 45 people... We could well see Steffon and Abendanon in the squad and we're likely to see Sam Burgess too so that the players can be seen by the top coaches.

Overall I'm perfectly content with how England are building for this world cup, I think Corbisiero and Launchbery back to full fitness and hopefully Manu as well will add much more to the team than bringing in Armitage or Abendonan; I should caveat that I would like them in the overall squad, I just don't think the "exceptional circumstances" are there.
CGG_12
08-04-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“Abendanon has been good but not even close to their best player this year.”

Sorry I should have said from what I've been hearing- and I meant it as literally 2015, aka January on

I'm not going to lie and say I actually bother watching French rugby week in, week out, though I have seen most of CA's Europe games and went to two of them
Kierenj
08-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Sorry I should have said from what I've been hearing- and I meant it as literally 2015, aka January on

I'm not going to lie and say I actually bother watching French rugby week in, week out, though I have seen most of CA's Europe games and went to two of them”

Haha, fair enough. I know what you mean, listening to the British press hyperbole can do that. I am based in Australia at the minute and although I get loads of Super rugby (and AFL), the only European stuff I get is the French league so have seen a fair bit of him.

I think people are still just clamouring for Steffon, so using Abendonan as another lever (will be tied in with Mike Brown's concussion no doubt).
CGG_12
17-04-2015
RC Toulon
15. Leigh Halfpenny; 14. Delon Armitage, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Matt Giteau, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Frederic Michalak, 9. Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Guilhem Guirado, 3. Carl Hayman (c), 4. Bakkies Botha, 5. Ali Williams, 6. Juan Smith, 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Chris Masoe

The team leinster have to face Sunday. few fellas called S.Armitage, Drew Mitchell and Rudi Wulf on the bench

The term massacre comes to mind
Kierenj
20-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“RC Toulon
15. Leigh Halfpenny; 14. Delon Armitage, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Matt Giteau, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Frederic Michalak, 9. Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Guilhem Guirado, 3. Carl Hayman (c), 4. Bakkies Botha, 5. Ali Williams, 6. Juan Smith, 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Chris Masoe

The team leinster have to face Sunday. few fellas called S.Armitage, Drew Mitchell and Rudi Wulf on the bench

The term massacre comes to mind”

Not quite the massacre... Did anyone watch the game, interested to know how Stefan got on as I saw he was on at 35 mins for Smith.
Mike Teevee
20-04-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“Not quite the massacre... Did anyone watch the game, interested to know how Stefan got on as I saw he was on at 35 mins for Smith.”

Pretty average game, looked like being just a kicking contest until Habana's intercept try. Leinster's kicking ultimately cost them the game (or at least a chance of winning at placed kicks).

It's hard to be objective about Steffon as the second he joined the pitch Sky's commentators went into OTT lovefest about him. Even when acknowledging he'd been benched due to poor form they were raving about how brilliant he was (which kinda contradicted the point about him being dropped).

When Jocelino Suta came on for Botha Toulon's scrum improved, which gave them a platform to build on. That plus Halfpenny's better kicking won them the game.
Kierenj
21-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“Pretty average game, looked like being just a kicking contest until Habana's intercept try. Leinster's kicking ultimately cost them the game (or at least a chance of winning at placed kicks).

It's hard to be objective about Steffon as the second he joined the pitch Sky's commentators went into OTT lovefest about him. Even when acknowledging he'd been benched due to poor form they were raving about how brilliant he was (which kinda contradicted the point about him being dropped).

When Jocelino Suta came on for Botha Toulon's scrum improved, which gave them a platform to build on. That plus Halfpenny's better kicking won them the game.”

Thanks for that, kind of what I was expecting, I knew he'd been dropped for poor form and he's been like that when I've seen him play this year, I just guess after the 6N when we had SCW and everyone clamouring for him they may have seen something more recently and I had hoped they weren't going off 8 month old information.
CGG_12
21-04-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“Not quite the massacre... Did anyone watch the game, interested to know how Stefan got on as I saw he was on at 35 mins for Smith.”

Yeah I was surprised I admittedly didn't give Leinster much of a chance and even though they were far from brilliant could well have snuck it

I know Toulon are going for 3 in a row and are packed with quality and experience, but this has been Clermont's best season in Europe yet I think, and I reckon they'll shade the final
Mike Teevee
22-04-2015
Australia relax overseas player rule

Seeing as they have a much smaller player base than England, it's not that surprising they've changed their tune. RFU on the other don't need to, regardless of the media hype around 1 or 2 players.

I'm guessing Giteau and Mitchell will be getting calls?
CGG_12
22-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“Australia relax overseas player rule

Seeing as they have a much smaller player base than England, it's not that surprising they've changed their tune. RFU on the other don't need to, regardless of the media hype around 1 or 2 players.

I'm guessing Giteau and Mitchell will be getting calls?”

Hmm I don't see it myself

Looks more like it's designed for the future really. It'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth to the guys already on the squad if these guys just walked straight back in, I don't really see Cheikha calling them straight in unless he really feels he has to

Granted I say the opposite for Armitage but I do think there is a large difference between playing in France from England and playing in France from Australia. And Armitage is an 'exceptional' case

In other news looks like Mike Brown still hasn't gotten over that concussion

It really is a huge issue in the game
Kierenj
23-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Hmm I don't see it myself

Looks more like it's designed for the future really. It'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth to the guys already on the squad if these guys just walked straight back in, I don't really see Cheikha calling them straight in unless he really feels he has to

Granted I say the opposite for Armitage but I do think there is a large difference between playing in France from England and playing in France from Australia. And Armitage is an 'exceptional' case

In other news looks like Mike Brown still hasn't gotten over that concussion

It really is a huge issue in the game”

I think you'll see Giteau recalled, he's well liked now, Australia need a better 10 and with his play at Toulon he's one of the best they'll have.
CGG_12
23-04-2015
Abendanon and Armitage short-listed for European Player of the year

When they're probably left out this will be another stick for the media to beat Stuart with
CGG_12
23-04-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“I think you'll see Giteau recalled, he's well liked now, Australia need a better 10 and with his play at Toulon he's one of the best they'll have.”

Haven't been following Super 15 but are Cooper and Foley not adequate enough?

Would have thought 12 or nowhere for Giteau anymore really?
Mike Teevee
23-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Abendanon and Armitage short-listed for European Player of the year

When they're probably left out this will be another stick for the media to beat Stuart with”

Vunipola also on that list, so that kinda counters that.

Particularly as Steffon is now playing in the same 8 position as Billy.
CGG_12
23-04-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“Vunipola also on that list, so that kinda counters that.

Particularly as Steffon is now playing in the same 8 position as Billy.”

Yes because the media/ fans always use perfect sense and logic!!
CGG_12
23-04-2015
I see Lee Byrne has had to retire. In his prime he was one of the best Full Backs I've watched, I remember him tearing up the 2009 6n- he was clear Player of Tournament imo despite Wales losing 2 matches

A lack of longevity at the top will mean he won't be as fondly remembered as he could be, but still a tremendous servant to Wales and particularly Ospreys
Kierenj
24-04-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“I see Lee Byrne has had to retire. In his prime he was one of the best Full Backs I've watched, I remember him tearing up the 2009 6n- he was clear Player of Tournament imo despite Wales losing 2 matches

A lack of longevity at the top will mean he won't be as fondly remembered as he could be, but still a tremendous servant to Wales and particularly Ospreys”

He was fantastic. Was that the year he and Kearney were both on fire... very similar players in size, stature and how they played, great shame.

With Stefan I find it hard to comprehend how he's short listed when he has been dropped by Toulon for poor form... it's almost as if the people who put the list together have an agenda... almost.
CGG_12
24-04-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“He was fantastic. Was that the year he and Kearney were both on fire... very similar players in size, stature and how they played, great shame.

With Stefan I find it hard to comprehend how he's short listed when he has been dropped by Toulon for poor form... it's almost as if the people who put the list together have an agenda... almost.”

Was there not a niggly injury he had? I'm well open to correction though

Kearney actually had quite an indifferent 6n that year, probably even Delon Armitage was better but came alive during Lions. As you say though, very similar players, I'd give it to Byrne though with that scary left boot!
apaul
02-05-2015
Stupid play by Abendanon. gifted Toulon the lead at half-time.
apaul
02-05-2015
An ugly looking trophy, but I don't suppose Toulon will mind. Clermont made too many mistakes.
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