• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Entertainment
  • Sport
The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2)
<<
<
198 of 234
>>
>
CGG_12
04-11-2015
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“Wouldn't that make him about 50 lol... I swear I thought he was retiring last year.”

He retired way back in 2011

Took on a management role at the Bulls and ended up just coming back playing a year or two ago again!

I'm never a big fan of players just coming back out of retirement at international level though, but it's probably just me . You've had your day, let someone else have a go

The way it's gone I often take retirements with a pinch of salt

I'd be surprised if he only did a Season with saints though. The Club game isn't as demanding and he can be rotated quite a bit

They look to be setting down a real marker. Probably missing a quality 9/10 combo though
CGG_12
04-11-2015
Paul O'Connell to miss the season for Toulon

I don't often feel sorry for sports people in such a luxurious position, but on a human level it's very difficult not to feel sympathy for POC after gaining such a new opportunity.

Zebo also heavily linked to Toulouse. Could be a very interesting development not only for the parties involved but Irish Rugby as a whole. Should the IRFU adopt a similar stance to England when it comes to foreign based players? Zebo isn't crucial to Ireland. It could help prevent a mass exodus

The way the Irish club sides are going, I can only see more leaving. How things can change so quickly
Kierenj
05-11-2015
Originally Posted by CGG_12:
“Paul O'Connell to miss the season for Toulon

I don't often feel sorry for sports people in such a luxurious position, but on a human level it's very difficult not to feel sympathy for POC after gaining such a new opportunity.

Zebo also heavily linked to Toulouse. Could be a very interesting development not only for the parties involved but Irish Rugby as a whole. Should the IRFU adopt a similar stance to England when it comes to foreign based players? Zebo isn't crucial to Ireland. It could help prevent a mass exodus

The way the Irish club sides are going, I can only see more leaving. How things can change so quickly”

Feel for POC, but he'll get his money and he's already won the Heineken right so it's not like he had that or nothing to play for.

Zebo is interesting, he's the kind of player who could really develop playing in a different environment. I always thought he'd really develop into a world class player but it seems like he needs a bit more size, or confidence or something... not sure what.

Ireland already have the exceptional rule don't they which they used for Sexton? I'd imagine they'll stay the same and just not select Zebo, 2 years in France and then he can come back and push for a RWC spot perhaps?
misawa97
05-11-2015
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34732141

Quote:
“Sam Burgess has left Bath with immediate effect in order to return to rugby league club South Sydney Rabbitohs.

Cross-code convert Burgess, 26, had two years left on a three-year deal.

Burgess was part of the England squad which went out of their home World Cup in the group stages.




He switched codes to join Bath last year but will now head back to Australia to play for his former club, NRL side the Rabbitohs.

Burgess was given time off by Bath coach Mike Ford after England's disastrous World Cup campaign and has now played his last game of rugby union.

Burgess, who had been playing at blind-side flanker for his club, was picked at centre for the hosts against Wales in the World Cup and his selection sparked much debate.

Bath had been adamant he would be staying at the club, with owner Bruce Craig saying on Wednesday: "As far as we're concerned he's with us and will continue playing for us."”

Welcome back Sam
Mark F
05-11-2015
Always likely no matter what Bath were trying to claim in public.
Mike Teevee
05-11-2015
I think it's a shame that Burgess has left, it certainly makes the last 10 months a complete waste of time.

Not sure I go with the revisionism that's going on saying he's been hounded out of Union. Just because people Dean Ryan were slating his awareness/Union skills, doesn't mean people were blaming him for England's failure at RWC.

The overwhelming blame has been laid at Robshaw door (for on pitch decision making) and the coaches for poor squad selections and floored game tactics. Harsh as it sounds it looks like Sam has taken the easy option of returning to League, instead of trying to prove himself in Union.

However the overriding thing from all of this was that it was highly dubious to expect anyone to pick up the intricacies of a different code in such a short space of time. This reflects badly on England coaches for changing their strategy so close to the RWC.

Not that he isn't doomed anyway, but this is another nail in Lancaster's coffin.
misawa97
05-11-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“I think it's a shame that Burgess has left, it certainly makes the last 10 months a complete waste of time.

Not sure I go with the revisionism that's going on saying he's been hounded out of Union. Just because people Dean Ryan were slating his awareness/Union skills, doesn't mean people were blaming him for England's failure at RWC.

The overwhelming blame has been laid at Robshaw door (for on pitch decision making) and the coaches for poor squad selections and floored game tactics. Harsh as it sounds it looks like Sam has taken the easy option of returning to League, instead of trying to prove himself in Union.

However the overriding thing from all of this was that it was highly dubious to expect anyone to pick up the intricacies of a different code in such a short space of time. This reflects badly on England coaches for changing their strategy so close to the RWC.

Not that he isn't doomed anyway, but this is another nail in Lancaster's coffin.”

The main issue I think for Burgess was why stay? The next world cup is 4 years away. Was it worth sticking around for another 4 years or return to the wonderful lifestyle he had in Sydney playing for a team that his adored and became a living legend at as well as play a game he most likely prefers to play.

At 26 in his position his peak years will be between now and say early 30’s. 4 more years in Union would probably mean his League career at the very top was done.

His girlfriend is australian which also might have been another reason to go back.
CGG_12
05-11-2015
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“The main issue I think for Burgess was why stay? The next world cup is 4 years away. Was it worth sticking around for another 4 years or return to the wonderful lifestyle he had in Sydney playing for a team that his adored and became a living legend at as well as play a game he most likely prefers to play.

At 26 in his position his peak years will be between now and say early 30’s. 4 more years in Union would probably mean his League career at the very top was done.

His girlfriend is australian which also might have been another reason to go back.”



I just assumed he was way older for some reason!
Mike Teevee
05-11-2015
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“The main issue I think for Burgess was why stay? The next world cup is 4 years away. Was it worth sticking around for another 4 years or return to the wonderful lifestyle he had in Sydney playing for a team that his adored and became a living legend at as well as play a game he most likely prefers to play.

At 26 in his position his peak years will be between now and say early 30’s. 4 more years in Union would probably mean his League career at the very top was done.

His girlfriend is australian which also might have been another reason to go back.”

He signed a three year contract, made lots of noises about being in Union for the long haul and seemed like he wanted to play Union. Now it looks like he's running off back to League because a few people said some mean things about him and/or he was over confident in thinking how easy it would be to play this code. Also it kinda looks like he used Bath to get a quick route into England side for RWC.

Sam doesn't owe anyone anything and he has to do what's best for him, but like I said I think it's a shame he's leaving.
CGG_12
05-11-2015
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“He signed a three year contract, made lots of noises about being in Union for the long haul and seemed like he wanted to play Union. Now it looks like he's running off back to League because a few people said some mean things about him and/or he was over confident in thinking how easy it would be to play this code. Also it kinda looks like he used Bath to get a quick route into England side for RWC.

Sam doesn't owe anyone anything and he has to do what's best for him, but like I said I think it's a shame he's leaving.”

I'm glad you finished off with this

the guy is entitled to do what he wants

It's a pity, I thought he actually played decent in the RWc and was far from England's biggest problem.

Best of luck to him in Oz
Mike Teevee
05-11-2015
He's entitled to do what he wants, it doesn't mean he hasn't screwed over Bath. It's not like they were trying to get rid of him (or generally that Union people wanted him out).
Nick2008
05-11-2015
I was initially sympathetic to Sam when I heard about his decision but the more I think about it, the more it rankles.

He's basically taking the easy way out.

He has tons of potential in Union. He made the switch a year too late to feature in this world cup but he should've had the balls to see out his contract at Bath.

It's not Sam's fault that Lancaster, Farrell and the other England coaches were about as useful as a chocolate teapot and there's no way Burgess should've been anywhere close to the RWC squad given his limited time at Union. There were far better options at 12 and 6 but another year at Bath and things could have been different.

That said, I wish him all the best back in League where he will no doubt seamlessly get back to the world class level he left the sport at.

Massive opportunity missed for Bath and England....but at least made a few quid in the process!
dee123
06-11-2015
Not a surprise really. What Rusty wants Rusty usually gets when it comes to his "beloved" bunnies.
spursguy
06-11-2015
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“The main issue I think for Burgess was why stay? The next world cup is 4 years away. Was it worth sticking around for another 4 years or return to the wonderful lifestyle he had in Sydney playing for a team that his adored and became a living legend at as well as play a game he most likely prefers to play.

At 26 in his position his peak years will be between now and say early 30’s. 4 more years in Union would probably mean his League career at the very top was done.

His girlfriend is australian which also might have been another reason to go back.”

The main issue is why join Union so (relatively) close to a World Cup if your intention is to make the squad and become a regular? Everyone knew there would be adaption time necessary, yet he gave himself less than 2 years to establish himself without knowing his likely best position.

I think he should've waited to switch until after this WC and given himself a 4 year run up to 2019. Truth is that his heart wasn't in it and the Rugby League World Cup was more important to him, hence not switching earlier or later. I don;t see it as a loss to Union as he clearly only ever had short-term ambitions. Shame really.
kobashi100
06-11-2015
Originally Posted by spursguy:
“The main issue is why join Union so (relatively) close to a World Cup if your intention is to make the squad and become a regular? Everyone knew there would be adaption time necessary, yet he gave himself less than 2 years to establish himself without knowing his likely best position.

I think he should've waited to switch until after this WC and given himself a 4 year run up to 2019. Truth is that his heart wasn't in it and the Rugby League World Cup was more important to him, hence not switching earlier or later. I don;t see it as a loss to Union as he clearly only ever had short-term ambitions. Shame really.”

I genuinely believe that Lancaster and Farrell made him believe that his world cup place was bang on guaranteed. He would have never left Sydney if he would have been told the WC was too early for him.

He isn't gonna wait another 4 years playing a sport he doesn't enjoy anywhere near as much as rugby league.

It's easy to say he is a quitter but why stay when your his heart isnt in it.

Sam never had the desire to be a rugby union great. He simply switched codes to play in the WC.
Cornish_Piskie
06-11-2015
Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“I genuinely believe that Lancaster and Farrell made him believe that his world cup place was bang on guaranteed. He would have never left Sydney if he would have been told the WC was too early for him.

He isn't gonna wait another 4 years playing a sport he doesn't enjoy anywhere near as much as rugby league.

It's easy to say he is a quitter but why stay when your his heart isnt in it.

Sam never had the desire to be a rugby union great. He simply switched codes to play in the WC.”


It was always a case of "Me, me, me" with the ill-fated-from-the-outset move of Sam Burgess across the codes. As you say, he didn't really want to play Union, he simply wanted to take part in a rugby world cup that has a high global profile..... that people have actually heard of.

He exploited the union code cynically for his own ends and now he's scuttled back to League, which he's good at, and hopefully he'll never be seen anywhere near the Union game ever again. Good riddance, I say.

OK.... Sam Burgess didn't lose the RWC for England, but he was instrumental in disrupting what team cohesion there was (and given Lancaster's inability to select the same team twice, it wasn't much). Luther Burrell could not possibly have done a worse job at RWC than Burgess but was discarded without another thought. What sort of message did that send out to the rest of the team..? What did that do for morale when they saw somebody who has worked hard for the last year to become an integral part of the team, disposed of the make way for a cherry picking interloper..?

I said from the very first that Burgess would slope off back to League after RWC. I take no pleasure in having been proved right.

Some people argue that Burgess simply wasn't ready for the world cup and none of the debacle was any of his fault. Hey, he sought out a place in England RU team of his own volition. I agree that he wasn't ready, but he never was going to be with the short amount of time he had from crossing codes to the start of RWC. He must surely have known that would be the case but still he pursued his aims.

I would argue that making a meaningful contribution was never really a part of his agenda. It was all about his own personal interests. He thought he could ride on the coat tails of the team and just "muck in" in a code he probably thinks is inferior to league (it isn't), it would all be easy and he'd come out of it looking good...... possibly with a nice shiny winners medal to show off into the bargain.


Stuart Lancaster must be sacked. He may be a good coach but he is not a manager. I suspect that he is too easily influenced in his team selection by Andy Farrell and his credibility as any sort of leader is shot to ribbons. I'd also send Andy Farrell packing too, thank his son for his services to England and advise him to concentrate on his club career in the future and I would then restore George Ford in the hope that his trust in the selection process can be rebuilt from the abysmal decision to play Farrell ahead of him during the World Cup.

And that would just be the start.
bluesdiamond
06-11-2015
Not sure if this has come up before. But FIRA-AER, Rugby Europe backing Romana and Georgia to get more exposure with 6n sides in some form.
http://mobile.rugbyeurope.eu/article-809.htm
Cissy Fairfax
06-11-2015
Originally Posted by kobashi100:
“I genuinely believe that Lancaster and Farrell made him believe that his world cup place was bang on guaranteed. He would have never left Sydney if he would have been told the WC was too early for him.

He isn't gonna wait another 4 years playing a sport he doesn't enjoy anywhere near as much as rugby league.

It's easy to say he is a quitter but why stay when your his heart isnt in it.

Sam never had the desire to be a rugby union great. He simply switched codes to play in the WC.”

I have always thought that too. It was only ever a one year, two at most if England had a good WC, in exchange for a guaranteed squad place. It was never long term I fancy the England staff knew that all along.

I always thought his best long-term position would have been No8 or if a back, outside centre.
Mike Teevee
07-11-2015
Originally Posted by Cornish_Piskie:
“Stuart Lancaster must be sacked. He may be a good coach but he is not a manager. I suspect that he is too easily influenced in his team selection by Andy Farrell and his credibility as any sort of leader is shot to ribbons. I'd also send Andy Farrell packing too, thank his son for his services to England and advise him to concentrate on his club career in the future and I would then restore George Ford in the hope that his trust in the selection process can be rebuilt from the abysmal decision to play Farrell ahead of him during the World Cup.

And that would just be the start.”

Sorry I don't agree with dumping Owen Farrell. Just because isn't the same sort of player as George Ford, doesn't mean he's not international class (he was nominated for WPoY a few year ago - so his peers don't think he rubbish). Ford is a very good player, but even he isn't perfect (his poor kicking springs to mind).

England did badly at RWC for a variety of reasons:

Some poor choices for initial squad
Not having a Plan B, once Joseph got injured in Fiji game
Inability to manage the injuries we got in Wales game
Robshaw's decision to ape Japan and go for the corner in dying minutes
Having a horrendous 40 minutes against Australia
Then throwing away an unlikely comeback by losing a player (granted that player was Farrell).

Despite the failure to get out of the group, it's not all doom and gloom for England. We might not have world class players, but we do have very good ones. The task now is to make sure we get the best out of them, meaning having more than one back up plan.
Mike Teevee
10-11-2015
Pro league for North America to come in 2016

Quote:
“The league, sanctioned by USA Rugby and World Rugby, will begin in April 2016 with six teams from the United States, before Canadian sides join in 2017.

Each team will be allowed no more than five non-North American players.”

misawa97
10-11-2015
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rug...-isn-t-it.html

Quote:
“In rugby league, I used to get to certain times in the game when I was completely, physically gone. You feel like you are out on your feet, with the ball being in play for so long and my point of difference at times in league was being able to beat that, mentally, and help a few of the other boys get through it as well.

That’s what I enjoyed in rugby league; getting to that tough period as a player and getting through it.

Looking back, that’s what makes me love the game so much; the actual physical battle of it. Yeah, union is tough, there are tough parts of it, but I never found myself reaching that point. League took me to places I’d never been before in games but I never found that in union.”

I think this is key as when Burgess switched I thought this could be an issue in Union.

This is a guy who can make 40 tackles and 40 carried in a game. At South Sydney he was a ‘go to guy’. No matter the situation Burgess would try and take that ball and make a difference. Now in Union he was never going to be able to replicate that level of work as the game just doesn’t allow it. From what I have seen its possible to go long periods without even touching the ball and the amount of tackles he would do would be way less.

I think it just didn’t work the way he maybe thought it would and even though by many accounts he in no way was a failure on the pitch he just didn’t enjoy Union as much as he does Rugby League. I don’t think that’s such a bad thing.
Mike Teevee
10-11-2015
Originally Posted by misawa97:
“http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rug...-isn-t-it.html



I think this is key as when Burgess switched I thought this could be an issue in Union.

This is a guy who can make 40 tackles and 40 carried in a game. At South Sydney he was a ‘go to guy’. No matter the situation Burgess would try and take that ball and make a difference. Now in Union he was never going to be able to replicate that level of work as the game just doesn’t allow it. From what I have seen its possible to go long periods without even touching the ball and the amount of tackles he would do would be way less.

I think it just didn’t work the way he maybe thought it would and even though by many accounts he in no way was a failure on the pitch he just didn’t enjoy Union as much as he does Rugby League. I don’t think that’s such a bad thing.”

Depends on what position he plays, generally front row forwards have more touches of the ball than backs.

Having said that the main hurdle Sam faced was trying to switch from League game to Union in one year. Unless he was playing as a winger it would always be difficult to make the transition quickly, even then it still be a bit of a struggle.

For either of the positions he played (6 for Bath or 12 for England) it would have been logical to expect a player to take time to learn all the various rules and skills required for the game.

Any transition between sports is difficult, look at Jarryd Hayne or Lawrence Okoye trying to do something equally hard in NFL. As commendable as it is to back yourself to make a switch to something new, it was a bit optimistic to expect things to smooth within less than a year's game experience.
Mark F
10-11-2015
Doesn't sound great for team spirit if this is a common theme within the England squad..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rug...Cup-leaks.html
CGG_12
11-11-2015
Lancaster has walked

The writing was always on the wall. I do feel a bit for him, as he seems a very genuine guy, but ultimately he delivered no 6n title and had a poor record vs the NH teams. Team selection did leave a lot to be desired at times

It'll be interesting to see who comes in and who gets the captaincy. will they put some of the 'older guard' (e.g. robshaw, Parling) out to pasture straight away or will they take each season as it comes?
tealady
11-11-2015
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34500716
Not sure who will replace him and as CGG_12 says who will be captain.
<<
<
198 of 234
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map