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The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2)
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Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Normally Wales or England play the Barbarians in a warm up for the summer tours.This game has the home nations edge to it. Increases the chance of injury for players after a hard season but on the other hand it's better preparation for a Southern Hemisphere challenge.

10-13 to Wales at half time.
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Quick turnaround and England lead 22-13 after two early second half tries.
Hint of a knock on about the second one, Quinnell and Greewnwood having a heated argument about it on Sky
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Game over I think, try for Marlon Yarde
27-13 with the con to come, 62mins.
richie4eva
29-05-2016
Too easy for England in this second half at the moment
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by richie4eva:
“Too easy for England in this second half at the moment”

Eight years Gatland has had this job and strength in depth is non existent.
Missing a few Lions but being dropped from this team is harder than getting into it.
England should be over 40 pts, Ford has missed about 15 in kicks.
Gatland had a habit of Gatlandball working when it really counts, i.e getting to the world cup knockouts and Grandslams and titles.He's been well worked out in the Northern Hemisphere as well as the South now.
I guess he's going to be Lions coach next year, so we'll see if the coaches who stay behind with Wales can make any difference in 2016/2017.
mb@2day
29-05-2016
England exploited poor tackling by the welsh forwards and the plenty of times their positioning was wrong.

Also Wales inaccurate passing at important times.

I thought the referees mistakes cost Wales in the second half. Especially the TMO mistake on the knock on by England. Can't sky afford another camera ?? Still its good they well position microphones so I can hear that old negro spiritual song being belted out.

However even including the illegal try against them Wales looked the poorer side.
Jamesp84
29-05-2016
Wales' best player was George Ford!
richie4eva
29-05-2016
New Zealand won't be losing much sleep after that Wales performance
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by mb@2day:
“England exploited poor tackling by the welsh forwards and the plenty of times their positioning was wrong.

Also Wales inaccurate passing at important times.

I thought the referees mistakes counting the TMO mistake on the knock on by England. Can't sky afford another camera ??

However even including the illegal try against them Wales looked the poorer side.”

I agree with all of your assessment. It would be marginally less painful if the tours were reversed and we were the ones going to Oz, with England going to NZ.
Wales nearely always play lethargically when they haven't had a game for while but neither have the opposition.
Launchbury has been on another level to most on the pitch.Not even a first choice pick either.

No points in the second half for Wales. Just abysmal.
Simply have to be much better in NZ to get within 20 or 30 points of them.
Warburton,Halfpenny, John Davies,Charteris can't come back soon enough.
Our back row replacements in particular are woefully below this level.
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by richie4eva:
“New Zealand won't be losing much sleep after that Wales performance”

The one team in the world who don't take opponents for granted. They'll be ruthless for 80minutes.
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
LOL at there being a trophy for every game nowadays.
Mike Teevee
29-05-2016
On a whim I bought a ticket last week for the match, on the whole it just about worth it.

Pretty average match, with nothing special from either side. Wales led at half time, but that was only because of Ford's horror show on the kicking front. Much better from England in the second half, especially considering we were missing all the Sarries players.

As for the Clifford try nothing on the TMO showed a clear knock on (especially as the ball went backwards) so not sure how it could have been ruled out. Not sure why Biggar felt the need to throw his toys out of the pram, it was hardly the worst refereeing decision in the world.

One thing today's match did show was the quality of rugby was better than in 6N, which lends weight to those who favour moving the tournament back a month or so. This should encourage better running rugby, which is surely a good thing.
Michael_Vaughan
29-05-2016
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“On a whim I bought a ticket last week for the match, on the whole it just about worth it.

Pretty average match, with nothing special from either side. Wales led at half time, but that was only because of Ford's horror show on the kicking front. Much better from England in the second half, especially considering we were missing all the Sarries players.

As for the Clifford try nothing on the TMO showed a clear knock on (especially as the ball went backwards) so not sure how it could have been ruled out. Not sure why Biggar felt the need to throw his toys out of the pram, it was hardly the worst refereeing decision in the world.

One thing today's match did show was the quality of rugby was better than in 6N, which lends weight to those who favour moving the tournament back a month or so. This should encourage better running rugby, which is surely a good thing.”

TMO and Sky's magnifying gadget showed the ball went forward and hit the deck off Cole again, who had gone further forward by then so it was a clear knock on.
Evened up things slightly though as Liam Williams should've had a yellow card earlier on.

Dan Biggar had three kickable opportunities before half time which he opted to put on the corner, so I don't agree with your assessment of them going in at half time further up.England took half an hour to get going in the first half and we also messed up a few try scoring opportunities. After the break it belonged to one team
Predictably as ever, Sky's commentators mentioned The World Class tag about England players as soon as they had a sizeable lead.

Realistically, England have not had any hugely difficult games during the six nations and during today's chuck about. The opportunities brought by a new coach are still being thrived upon by the players.As they were when Gatland joined Wales and Schmidt took over with Ireland. I'd still take all the rugby championship sides to beat England with home advantage. At Twickenham they will be a tougher prospect as anyone in the years to come. Still , England are the best chance at a six nations team winning a test down under this summer. The series will belong to NZ, Oz and the Boks though
Kierenj
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“TMO and Sky's magnifying gadget showed the ball went forward and hit the deck off Cole again, who had gone further forward by then so it was a clear knock on.
Evened up things slightly though as Liam Williams should've had a yellow card earlier on.

Dan Biggar had three kickable opportunities before half time which he opted to put on the corner, so I don't agree with your assessment of them going in at half time further up.England took half an hour to get going in the first half and we also messed up a few try scoring opportunities. After the break it belonged to one team
Predictably as ever, Sky's commentators mentioned The World Class tag about England players as soon as they had a sizeable lead.

Realistically, England have not had any hugely difficult games during the six nations and during today's chuck about. The opportunities brought by a new coach are still being thrived upon by the players.As they were when Gatland joined Wales and Schmidt took over with Ireland. I'd still take all the rugby championship sides to beat England with home advantage. At Twickenham they will be a tougher prospect as anyone in the years to come. Still , England are the best chance at a six nations team winning a test down under this summer. The series will belong to NZ, Oz and the Boks though”

I'm confused how it was a knock on when the ball landed behind Cole's hands... where it hit the floor was clearly behind the contact with his hands. That said, it looked to me like he may have knocked it into the Welsh player but it just wasn't clear. I really don't think it mattered over the course of the game, other than Biggar embarrassing himself off the back of that. England looked just a full step above Wales in the second half and without Krutoje, Farrell and Nowell.

I'm going to England's test in Melbourne I think England will surprise a few down here. The Aussie teams have been pretty awful in the Super rugby, in fact only the Rebels have been marginal this year and the NZ teams are just so far above everyone.

In terms of last years 6N, it's pretty standard that whenever England win it it's because the other teams were poor not because they played well... weird hey
Mike Teevee
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“TMO and Sky's magnifying gadget showed the ball went forward and hit the deck off Cole again, who had gone further forward by then so it was a clear knock on.
Evened up things slightly though as Liam Williams should've had a yellow card earlier on.

Dan Biggar had three kickable opportunities before half time which he opted to put on the corner, so I don't agree with your assessment of them going in at half time further up.England took half an hour to get going in the first half and we also messed up a few try scoring opportunities. After the break it belonged to one team
Predictably as ever, Sky's commentators mentioned The World Class tag about England players as soon as they had a sizeable lead.”

As I was at the ground those of us in the crowd didn't get the benefit of a zoomed in close up, so it wasn't a clear knock on from our view. Not sure how many times TMO looked at it or whether they also had a magnifier of the incident in real time.

Ford missed two easy kicks that should have given England a further 5 points. Wales may have scored from the kickable chances, as Ford's iffy kicking proved that's not a given

Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“Realistically, England have not had any hugely difficult games during the six nations and during today's chuck about. The opportunities brought by a new coach are still being thrived upon by the players.As they were when Gatland joined Wales and Schmidt took over with Ireland. I'd still take all the rugby championship sides to beat England with home advantage. At Twickenham they will be a tougher prospect as anyone in the years to come. Still , England are the best chance at a six nations team winning a test down under this summer. The series will belong to NZ, Oz and the Boks though”

England beat what was in front of them in 6N. For the second year in a row we were given a tough game by France, who up until that final week were their usual up & down selves.

I can't see us beating Australia three times, but a series win is possible. Failing that I'd be disappointed if we didn't win one test.
Philip Wales
31-05-2016
I'd like one win in OZ, I think England can do that. Clifford and Itoje could be a real menace in the back row. And at 60-65 minutes your roll out Vinapulo to really wreck a tiring team.
Michael_Vaughan
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Mike Teevee:
“As I was at the ground those of us in the crowd didn't get the benefit of a zoomed in close up, so it wasn't a clear knock on from our view. Not sure how many times TMO looked at it or whether they also had a magnifier of the incident in real time.

t.”

Very fair point about real time.Refs don't have superhero powers, although some of them do like to be the centre of attention rather than the players
There was also the issue of it being a deliberate knock on and a probable yellow card in that case. Even modern props aren't known for there silky handling skills!!
I'll shut up about it now but would be disappointed with that decision in a World Cup or 6 Nations game.
Michael_Vaughan
31-05-2016
Originally Posted by Kierenj:
“
In terms of last years 6N, it's pretty standard that whenever England win it it's because the other teams were poor not because they played well... weird hey”


Same has been said about Wales when we've won the slams since the 6 nations came into being. All the NH teams looked way behind NZ and Oz during the World Cup. Despite the history and our natural bias about the traditions, the skill level and more importantly application when it counts is generally always behind that of the rugby played south of he equator.
Australia are still a young team and Cheika took them all the way to the final.They have a great potential future like England now do. Once again the English media don't help, from the sky commentators bleating about World Class players once they had a lead last week.The change of coach has been a massive step up in quality but many of these England players went to pieces under pressure on the world stage last Autumn. Much bigger tests than those posed so far lie ahead.
Philip Wales
01-06-2016
^^ I think last RWC alot of England's problems came from playing a player who was unfamiliar with RU, and playing in position he hadn't really trained for, and by playing him the broke a centre partnership that was playing well in the 6N.

Also the captain proved that while he's a nice guy etc, wasn't really "cut out" for tournament play, where, stopping the opposition winning, especially in our group was very important.
Kierenj
02-06-2016
Originally Posted by Michael_Vaughan:
“Same has been said about Wales when we've won the slams since the 6 nations came into being. All the NH teams looked way behind NZ and Oz during the World Cup. Despite the history and our natural bias about the traditions, the skill level and more importantly application when it counts is generally always behind that of the rugby played south of he equator.
Australia are still a young team and Cheika took them all the way to the final.They have a great potential future like England now do. Once again the English media don't help, from the sky commentators bleating about World Class players once they had a lead last week.The change of coach has been a massive step up in quality but many of these England players went to pieces under pressure on the world stage last Autumn. Much bigger tests than those posed so far lie ahead.”

I would think outside of going to win a Grand Slam the only other thing is a win away in NZ and then a world cup. Winning in Australia is nice but the pressure isn't the same as a 6N, the crowds and chaos around it is about half of that for an England/Wales game.

I'll be going to the Melbourne test (I live in Perth), and am quietly confident we'll show well, that said I was also confident before the world cup lol.

Cheika is like a more abrasive Jones in that he has created a team that is better than the sum of it's parts. Pooper are both world class but outside of that he Cheika got some amazing play out of his 9 and 10.
swingaleg
07-06-2016
The World U20 Championships start today in Manchester and Salford

There are 6 games today with 3 live games on Sky Sports One

3.30 South Africa v Japan
5.30 Wales v Ireland
7.45 England v Italy

It seems to be one of those competitions where nobody seems to go home until the teams that get knocked out have played in Cups and Shields and B games and losers rounds etc..........neverending games which make it difficult to follow the 'narrative' of the competition

Probably a dip in and dip out tournament unless you're mad keen

South Africa v Japan resonates........
Mike Teevee
07-06-2016
Originally Posted by swingaleg:
“The World U20 Championships start today in Manchester and Salford

There are 6 games today with 3 live games on Sky Sports One

3.30 South Africa v Japan
5.30 Wales v Ireland
7.45 England v Italy

It seems to be one of those competitions where nobody seems to go home until the teams that get knocked out have played in Cups and Shields and B games and losers rounds etc..........neverending games which make it difficult to follow the 'narrative' of the competition

Probably a dip in and dip out tournament unless you're mad keen

South Africa v Japan resonates........”

Shame it's not being played in Brighton again
swingaleg
07-06-2016
England about to kick off

earlier games........

SA beat Japan
Argentina beat France
Scotland beat Australia
Ireland beat Wales
Marmite Baby
09-06-2016
Can somebody please explain to me why Eddie Jones rates Marland Yarde so highly?
Mike Teevee
09-06-2016
Originally Posted by Marmite Baby:
“Can somebody please explain to me why Eddie Jones rates Marland Yarde so highly?”

He played pretty well against New Zealand on the last tour and I think he sees him as a good winger on hard pitches.

I know Quins just had a poor season, but Yarde does well when on England duty.
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