I know its only one game (and unlike the football media rugby guys won't think one defeat makes in the end of the world) but could tiredness play a factor in these games or just down to a difference in quality?
The All Purpose Rugby Union Thread (P2)
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Originally Posted by richie4eva:
“To be fair it was a big ask for Ireland to beat the All Blacks, once NZ got going they were impossible to stop
If Australia had been more clinical in that first half, Wales would have been blown away
Lot of grit from Wales to fight back a little in the second half although it was ultimately fruitless
Can see Wales squeezing a win in Melbourne or Sydney, Brisbane was a big ask as Australia are really good there
One thing we've learnt from these first round of matches, the South can be very clinical with their finishing and Wales especially found that out more than once
On to the second round of matches:
New Zealand v Ireland - Another stroll for the world champions
Australia v Wales - Could go either way
South Africa v England - Didn't see much of this match but heard it was not good. Thinking a much better match 2nd time around.”
“To be fair it was a big ask for Ireland to beat the All Blacks, once NZ got going they were impossible to stop
If Australia had been more clinical in that first half, Wales would have been blown away
Lot of grit from Wales to fight back a little in the second half although it was ultimately fruitless
Can see Wales squeezing a win in Melbourne or Sydney, Brisbane was a big ask as Australia are really good there
One thing we've learnt from these first round of matches, the South can be very clinical with their finishing and Wales especially found that out more than once
On to the second round of matches:
New Zealand v Ireland - Another stroll for the world champions
Australia v Wales - Could go either way
South Africa v England - Didn't see much of this match but heard it was not good. Thinking a much better match 2nd time around.”
Austrailia are there for the taking but not with expansive rugby. If you take them on with running rugby you will not do enough.
Wales need to forget trying to play flair rugby and simply squeeze the life out of Aus through their tight five forwards who are all second rate to the Welsh ones. It will stop their backrow and stop there attacking threat.
Ireland quite frankly do not have a hope. Sorry but they have met an All Blacks that are doing typicle All Black things, finding even better players than the ones they had before.
I am not sure England can win a game in their series. Boks look so brutal, so physical. I would like to see us go out and give them some stick though, stand up and get a bit fiesty.
As a few have said the exicution of the basic skills in the south is miles ahead of us in the north. When they get in the 22 they score. They have strike moves of first phase ball. We have gym bunnies who can't catch and pass.
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“I know its only one game (and unlike the football media rugby guys won't think one defeat makes in the end of the world) but could tiredness play a factor in these games or just down to a difference in quality?”
“I know its only one game (and unlike the football media rugby guys won't think one defeat makes in the end of the world) but could tiredness play a factor in these games or just down to a difference in quality?”
You could make an argument for that, but you have to remember that the SH teams were playing Super 15 the week before the tests, so the same argument could be made for both teams.
What is apparent is that, aside from the Harlequins and Leicester contingent, some England players haven't played a game for 4 or 5 weeks. Think of Tom Johnson. Exeter hit fifth spot, so once the 22 regular rounds were wrapped up he didn't have another game until yesterday. No matter what you say, that has an impact.
Originally Posted by sensoria:
“I am not sure England can win a game in their series. Boks look so brutal, so physical. I would like to see us go out and give them some stick though, stand up and get a bit fiesty.
As a few have said the exicution of the basic skills in the south is miles ahead of us in the north. When they get in the 22 they score. They have strike moves of first phase ball. We have gym bunnies who can't catch and pass.”
“I am not sure England can win a game in their series. Boks look so brutal, so physical. I would like to see us go out and give them some stick though, stand up and get a bit fiesty.
As a few have said the exicution of the basic skills in the south is miles ahead of us in the north. When they get in the 22 they score. They have strike moves of first phase ball. We have gym bunnies who can't catch and pass.”
England definitely need to get in the Boks' faces and push them backwards, we were too soft in the collision yesterday.
I would agree that the execution is better, but I also think that reffing comes into it.
Bear with me, this isn't a bitch. It's pretty clear from yesterdays games that the breakdown is a mess. What's even clearer is that NH teams get penalised more at the breakdown than SH teams. If you knew, going into a test match, that you could break pretty much every law at the breakdown and secure quick possession then implement a strike move, it's gonna pay off.
Not a bitch, they get away with it so why would they stop doing it, but it definitely helps. NH teams concentrate on securing ball and getting rid of opposition players, SH teams plough in from the side and just smash everyone out their way. You get bal that quick then no-ones gonna have a chance, even with a simple draw and pass.
Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister:
“horrible day for the NH, I thought at least 2 of the games would end in victories, even if narrow ones. Seems like, after everything that was said during the 6N, Wales still aren't good enough to compete with the big boys.
England need a new midfield, Brad Barrit was invisible for most of the game, and Mike Brown should go home. Him over Ben Foden at full back? No thank you!
I also want to say all three games were marred by poor reffing. Basically, what I've learnt from today is that the big three southern hemisphere teams can pretty much do what they want and get away with it. Not a good day for Owens, Joubert or Walsh. How Walsh is still even on the elite refs list is beyond me. He's been awful for 10 years.”
“horrible day for the NH, I thought at least 2 of the games would end in victories, even if narrow ones. Seems like, after everything that was said during the 6N, Wales still aren't good enough to compete with the big boys.
England need a new midfield, Brad Barrit was invisible for most of the game, and Mike Brown should go home. Him over Ben Foden at full back? No thank you!
I also want to say all three games were marred by poor reffing. Basically, what I've learnt from today is that the big three southern hemisphere teams can pretty much do what they want and get away with it. Not a good day for Owens, Joubert or Walsh. How Walsh is still even on the elite refs list is beyond me. He's been awful for 10 years.”
That was always a VERY LONG SHOT!
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...th_273312a.jpg
Originally Posted by andy-i:
“That was always a VERY LONG SHOT!
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...th_273312a.jpg”
“That was always a VERY LONG SHOT!
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...th_273312a.jpg”
Yeah definitely a long shot, but with Wales on the high of winning the Grand Slam, and England going through a very positive transition period it might be the time. Plus SA hadn't been together long, and Australia were on a downer after losing to Scotland.
like I said, I thought they would be narrow victories, but they were the best chances of the 3 tests for NH teams to win games.
I don't think anyone gave Ireland a hope. After the first test I don't think they've got a hope for the remaining two either. Best bet is to keep the points difference respectable.
Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister:
“I also want to say all three games were marred by poor reffing. Basically, what I've learnt from today is that the big three southern hemisphere teams can pretty much do what they want and get away with it. Not a good day for Owens, Joubert or Walsh. How Walsh is still even on the elite refs list is beyond me. He's been awful for 10 years.”
“I also want to say all three games were marred by poor reffing. Basically, what I've learnt from today is that the big three southern hemisphere teams can pretty much do what they want and get away with it. Not a good day for Owens, Joubert or Walsh. How Walsh is still even on the elite refs list is beyond me. He's been awful for 10 years.”
Watched the England game yesterday (won't have time for the other 2 - busy weekends at the mo) and must agree with you with particular regard to the breakdown.
Didn't seem to be much idea of the 'two pillars' and not coming in from the side at times from the Saffers.
It appears that England are being judged to different standards - I' used to that however.
It's a developing team and on Saturday there were only 4 starters with more than 10 caps - pretty rare these days.
Marler looks a keeper (harsh for other good loose heads) and I can easily see him in the shirt for the Lions next year.
Love to get Lawes and Croft back for the pack, and Woods in the mix as well - and Kitchener to keep developing.
I think Barritt played the 6 Nations to allow Farrell to bed in. With no experienced outside centre available (and when Flood was injured there was a similar issue at 10) I think Lancaster decided to give Farrell the support of two fellow Saracens as protection. He can move on now and I don't mind a Farrell/Flood/Tuilagi combo in the midfield - which can be very flexible in attack.
Always though Brown was the typical Stuart Barnes type pick. Fine, in fact very good, at club level but not quite the international mark.
Mind you, Barnes is better than Dewi Morris who thinks every player not playing for England should be - until they do
Originally Posted by richie4eva:
“Heineken Cup draw is out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18407808”
“Heineken Cup draw is out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18407808”
Are the reports that English sides might pull out true?
Would be bad for the competition I suspect if that happened.
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“Are the reports that English sides might pull out true?
Would be bad for the competition I suspect if that happened.”
“Are the reports that English sides might pull out true?
Would be bad for the competition I suspect if that happened.”
BBC website indicates the French are as well apparently thttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18409108
Originally Posted by Frood:
“.
Marler looks a keeper (harsh for other good loose heads) and I can easily see him in the shirt for the Lions next year.
Love to get Lawes and Croft back for the pack, and Woods in the mix as well - and Kitchener to keep developing.
I think Barritt played the 6 Nations to allow Farrell to bed in. With no experienced outside centre available (and when Flood was injured there was a similar issue at 10) I think Lancaster decided to give Farrell the support of two fellow Saracens as protection. He can move on now and I don't mind a Farrell/Flood/Tuilagi combo in the midfield - which can be very flexible in attack.
Always though Brown was the typical Stuart Barnes type pick. Fine, in fact very good, at club level but not quite the international mark.
Mind you, Barnes is better than Dewi Morris who thinks every player not playing for England should be - until they do”
“.
Marler looks a keeper (harsh for other good loose heads) and I can easily see him in the shirt for the Lions next year.
Love to get Lawes and Croft back for the pack, and Woods in the mix as well - and Kitchener to keep developing.
I think Barritt played the 6 Nations to allow Farrell to bed in. With no experienced outside centre available (and when Flood was injured there was a similar issue at 10) I think Lancaster decided to give Farrell the support of two fellow Saracens as protection. He can move on now and I don't mind a Farrell/Flood/Tuilagi combo in the midfield - which can be very flexible in attack.
Always though Brown was the typical Stuart Barnes type pick. Fine, in fact very good, at club level but not quite the international mark.
Mind you, Barnes is better than Dewi Morris who thinks every player not playing for England should be - until they do
”
It's an unfortunate situation when you've come to accept that games are not called equally.
As for Marler, I still prefer Corbesiero. Marler's good, but Corbs seems to pop up around the park a bit more and has more to his scrummaging. I can see Marler coming off the bench after 60 minutes, a la Dan Cole at Leicester.
Would love to see Lawes, Croft and Wood back, but I think with some game time Tom Johnson can become an awesome player. It's a good situation when Robshaw basically has 4 back row players he can play with, something we haven't had for a while. In fact 5, I just remembered Haskell's back in the frame.
Agree about Brown, fantastic at Harlequins, way out of his depth in England colours. The fact he's out of the tour is his own fault because he can't tackle.
The Heineken cup looks pretty good for next year.
England and French teams have to play the HC for the next two years at least. That's the window that you play when you boycott the tournament. It's a basically a way of saying "we're giving you two years to sort out your problems or we're going".
This is all a bout qualification and how it's uneven, I think the plan is to request 6 teams from each league (prem, Top 14, Rabo direct) and then the HC winners and the Challenge cup winners. sounds like a good plan to me.
Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister:
“As for Marler, I still prefer Corbesiero. Marler's good, but Corbs seems to pop up around the park a bit more and has more to his scrummaging. I can see Marler coming off the bench after 60 minutes, a la Dan Cole at Leicester.”
“As for Marler, I still prefer Corbesiero. Marler's good, but Corbs seems to pop up around the park a bit more and has more to his scrummaging. I can see Marler coming off the bench after 60 minutes, a la Dan Cole at Leicester.”
Marler's superb around the park.
Very mobile, strong carrier and a superb passer of ball.
So many times last season you save a Harlequins move and Marler was playing a big part - sometimes there would be a pass with the subtlety and touch of a top fly half and you realised it was him making it.
Don't get me wrong, I think Corbs is excellent - and England have a strong hand of props. I just think Marler is something special. I felt the same when I first saw Phil Vickery plying for England A against the All Blacks,
For goodness sake Wales. Oz have been all over us since we got the early try. Still just ahead on the scoreboard and not helped by a shocking line out yet again.
Oz try to take the lead at half time. Sloppy kick from Phillips and they carve us up through the middle. Warburton looks off the pace , perhaps should've been on the bench with Tipuric starting.
Originally Posted by Zaphodski:
“Stadium very empty. Oz bored with RU or just don't fancy watching Wales?”
“Stadium very empty. Oz bored with RU or just don't fancy watching Wales?”
Its the 4th most popular spectator sport in Oz and even further down the ladder in Melbourne. Also a pretty awful place to watch rugby , with the pitch being so far from the stands.
Originally Posted by Zaphodski:
“That was a RED! Sam got sent off for less in the WC SF!!”
“That was a RED! Sam got sent off for less in the WC SF!!”
Balls of Steel from Halfpenny to get the long range pen after it.
19-20 Wales , 64mins
Originally Posted by vaughan6477:
“Its the 4th most popular spectator sport in Oz and even further down the ladder in Melbourne. Also a pretty awful place to watch rugby , with the pitch being so far from the stands.”
“Its the 4th most popular spectator sport in Oz and even further down the ladder in Melbourne. Also a pretty awful place to watch rugby , with the pitch being so far from the stands.”
Yes I did notice that, need binoculars!
Glad Barnes missed that pen , as it's award was diabolical. Aus have to con the ref at scrumtime as it's the weakest part of their game.
22-23, 76mins.
22-23, 76mins.
Couple of Aussie knock ons and we're into the last minute. I'm so nervous , are 40+years of heartache down under about to end
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