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BBC Lose the Grand National and the Derby
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omnidirectional
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Note that I said "being seen as" implying a perception is the eyes of some, and that it was a qualified statement ("if Channel 4 take on much more sport").


Except when they show Cheltenham, Aintree meetings etc

And except when they show Indoor Athletics

And except when they show other sports which take place throughout the week.

As I said, it's the perception rather than the reality - the same perception that gets people complaining that there's too much sport on the BBC, that every Saturday afternoon sport takes over on the BBC, that the BBC should start a sports channel.”

Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“This is just clutching at straws. Everyone expects racing on Channel 4. It is already the terrestial home of racing. You'd need to never watch the channel to not know that.”

Exactly - some extra horse racing is hardly going to make C4 be seen as a Sports channel. if anything, that may have happened when they had cricket taking up vast amounts of the schedule a few years ago but not now. C4 have in the past shown much more sport than they do now, so gaining some more Racing isn't going to make a huge difference to the 'perception' of the channel.
mossy2103
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by slow motion:
“So a million pounds a show in rights costs alone then?”

The Daily Mail and the Telegraph has a cost of £22 million for the rights (rather than £24 or £25 million quoted elsewhere and in this thread), and it was also reported elsewhere that ITV bid more.

Other sources report £25 million.

So it's anyone's guess as to what the actual rights cost was.

HOWEVER, a very recent report in the Guardian states this:


Quote:
“From the creator of Big Brother, with a budget of £25m over two years, the singing contest has already become so important that the reputation of the BBC1 controller, Danny Cohen, is on the line.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...ins-got-talent

So, if correct (not that "if correct" bit, it's contextually important) maybe (again, note this word, again contextually important) the rights cost £22 million, with a further £3million in show costs?
Tassium
19-03-2012
Some people are blaming cuts but the BBC have been anti-sport for some time now.

Often taking any opportunity to downgrade the actual coverage in favour of talking heads.


For Wimbledon I remember when there was no actual live play the BBC would show a recorded package of yesterdays stuff, now it's hours of inane chatter featuring Sue and Friends.
mossy2103
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by omnidirectional:
“Exactly - some extra horse racing is hardly going to make C4 be seen as a Sports channel..”

I obviously need to make this much clearer:


I said

If Channel 4 take on much more sport


Taking on horse racing in its entirety has already happened, so, trying to simplify what i posted even further, If Channel 4 take on much more sport (apart from horse racing, and it could be one or two sports events, it could be a handful or more) then (and only then) might some people see it as a sports channel.


But considering the way that such a simple and innocent statement has been taken and misinterpreted, I just wish that i had not bothered.

Is there an exasperated smiley anywhere?
franchise
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by The Ginge:
“I am not really a fan of horse racing but it seems Sport is just slipping away from the BBC bit by bit. In years to come there won't be much left. At least as people say it is still free to air but I am sure it won't be long until 'Sky Horse Racing HD' comes about......”

Sky part own a racing channel, At The Races.
mr_wonderful
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“I obviously need to make this much clearer:


I said

If Channel 4 take on much more sport


Taking on horse racing in its entirety has already happened, so, trying to simplify what i posted even further, If Channel 4 take on more sport (apart from horse racing, and it could be one or two sports events, it could be a handful or more) then (and only then) might some people see it as a sports channel.


But considering the way that such a simple and innocent statement has been taken and misinterpreted, I just wish that i had not bothered.”

A lot of ifs, buts and maybes there.
Tassium
19-03-2012
It's not a coincidence that CH4 group have been going after sport that tends to take place during the day.

They keep their evening schedule free for that lifestyle stuff that dominates.
derek500
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“It's not a coincidence that CH4 group have been going after sport that tends to take place during the day.”

Although it's eating into their highest share programme of the day, Deal or No Deal, which loses one ad break during Cheltenham week..
mossy2103
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mr_wonderful:
“A lot of ifs, buts and maybes there.”

Yes, i never claimed otherwise. Plenty of those ifs buts and maybes inherent in that simple post of mine that seems to have stirred up so much comment. A post so simple in its construction that I did not feel that i had to spell it out in words of one syllable (to coin a phrase before anyone picks me up on that), or to justify it to the nth degree (which i then went on to do in the post that you so kindly quoted).

Now everyone, let it go.

Any wind-up merchants will no doubt carry on gnawing away ....
redknickers
19-03-2012
Shame for the BBC but after C4's excellent coverage of Cheltenham (unlike Racing UK with their distant camera's) i am not to worried.
apaul
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“ Everyone expects racing on Channel 4. It is already the terrestial home of racing. You'd need to never watch the channel to not know that.”

People who are interested in horse racing know that, but the Grand National and Derby are occasions when the sport/industry tries to reach out to as wide a public as possible and BBC1 is much better for this than Channel 4. Also Channel 4 will be able to pocket the rights for listed events very cheaply next time round if there is no competition.
Vericacious
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by GeorgeS:
“and of course the budgets are set by management and they could easily take money from one and put it into another. They werent handed down in stone tablets from God”

Quite- we're looking at Mark Thompson's legacy.

(As I've put elsewhere, I wonder where Thompson is planning his future ?)

On the subject of The Voice, it's a budget spend that's so shockingly outrageous- and is money for old rope for the rights holder to what is, after all, The X Factor with blindfolds- that you've got to question the culture of the corporation and, with that culture, its future. Surely a public service broadcaster should be developing its own light entertainment formats or purchasing only low cost rights ?
slow motion
19-03-2012
You post this...
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“So perhaps just leave it there with no other barbed comments like "clutching at straws"”

Then yourself make barbed comments...
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Any wind-up merchants will no doubt carry on gnawing away ....”

slow motion
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Vericacious:
“On the subject of The Voice, it's a budget spend that's so shockingly outrageous- and is money for old rope for the rights holder to what is, after all, The X Factor with blindfolds- that you've got to question the culture of the corporation and, with that culture, its future. Surely a public service broadcaster should be developing its own formats or purchasing only low cost rights ?”

I think many if not most people would totally agree with that.
mike1948
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Zac Quinn:
“Would be interesting to see how many of those that voted Conservative in the last General Election are outraged now that the implications of Cameron and Osborne's licence fee freeze have hit home in a sport that is mostly followed by upper-class folk, would imagine there's quite a crossover.I still don't quite understand why serious action wasn't taken publicly for the hugely disrespectful 'teeth' comment. If the Grand National is going to form the centrepiece of C4's annual sporting output I doubt they'd risk a moment like that.”

It is not only the licence fee freeze that is hitting BBC finances but it is losing the government grant to pay for World Service. This means the cost of running it will be coming from the licence fee. Compared with Sky's charges, the licence is a bargain.
mossy2103
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by slow motion:
“You post this...Then yourself make barbed comments...”

Well, I note that you chose to reply to that rather than contribute anything on-topic.
slow motion
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Well, I note that you chose to reply to that rather than contribute anything on-topic.”

It was such a glaring contradiction, I thought it worth taking a moment to point out. Perhaps you're unaware you do it.

I've posted plenty about the topic, going to listen to what others say now. But go ahead, make it my fault now, if it distracts focus from yourself!
mossy2103
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mike1948:
“It is not only the licence fee freeze that is hitting BBC finances but it is losing the government grant to pay for World Service.”

And it is also taking on the budgetary responsibility for BBC Monitoring, as well as stumping up anything up to £25 million for local TV
Digifriendly
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Straker:
“ ITV3 have the French and if I were them I’d not let the BBC have so much as 10 seconds of any match, even when it comes to clips for the news. **** ’em.”

Think you mean ITV4. Also don't think it is ITV who will decide to allow news programmes to show clips of the tennis. Even if they took the position you suggest BBC could always use Eurosports coverage.
redknickers
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mike1948:
“It is not only the licence fee freeze that is hitting BBC finances but it is losing the government grant to pay for World Service. This means the cost of running it will be coming from the licence fee. Compared with Sky's charges, the licence is a bargain.”



LOL value for money is what counts sir
fluffed
19-03-2012
On a positive note: no more flipping Champions theme music on national day.
Shrewn
19-03-2012
I wonder if they'll use Big Mac as he's slated both Aintree and Liverpudlians in the past!
TRIPS
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by Ginger Daddy:
“£24m on many, many, many hours of prime time broadcasting represents better value for money than £5m for a bit of horse racing on in the afternoon.

Sorry, that is the harsh reality of it. People moan about how much the Eurovision Song Contest costs the UK, however if the Beeb were to produce its own three hours of programming for that slot it wouldnt be any cheaper.”

Yes but when i watch racing i have a slim chance of winnng.
when i watch the Eurovision i think we have absolutely no chance of winning, the money we pump into that show we should come up with someway of stopping the votes from being rigged,it's all voting for my m8 next door,
Sad to see the BBC choose not to broadcast racing.
I just hope C4 does what they promise, to revamp the show and look at new presenters.
mikw
19-03-2012
Let's have some context here.

BBC Cut's are pretty much across the board.

"The Voice" comes from the entertainment budget, and not the Sport budget.

So, it's never been a case of that taking priority over sports content.

The Entertainment department is also being forced to make savings too.

And, we are not partial to what "sell on" costs The UK version of the voice might generate.

And, this deal is a good one, as it means that People can watch the Grand National at no extra cost, and the BBC can save money on what has always been a large cost for not much coverage.

Surely, Slo-motion would applaud that?
slow motion
19-03-2012
Originally Posted by mikw:
“Surely, Slo-motion would applaud that?”

I certainly don't applaud more spending on very costly new reality TV at the expense of existing sports commitments.

People can watch the equaivalent BGT and XFactor at no extra cost already, they are not behind any paywalls.

With BBC One spend at around £1,200 million a year, perhaps too much is already spent on entertainment, also mimicking popular and long-established ITV shows contributes nothing new to broadcasting IMO.
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