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Old 27-03-2012, 18:37
spiney2
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in each flat:

the 2 sat feeds appear as sat 1 & sat 2. can be used for 1 twin tuner sat receiver, or 2 separate single tuner receivers. if multisat then 1 or both receivers could be diseqc enabled, and possibly with decoder and viewing card. if no multisat then only 28E astra2 will be available, and diseqc signals from receiver will do nothing.

one of the 2 lines will be split 3 ways - with frequency filtering - to additionally give a uhf and fm/dab socket. uhf lets you add as many freeview/topup receivers as you want (practically speaking).
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Old 27-03-2012, 18:44
spiney2
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if an extension is installed, normally this is a single coax cable from main room to bedroom. which allows:

the tv link system as explained. sky box rf out. if tv link used for non-sky - without a sky box - this needs some extra bits.

note tv link is sd picture only and mono sound.

you can also feed through the already included terrestrial tv signals - alongside the tv link system - which allows a freeview receiver in bedroom (possibly hd). but feeding through the satellite signal via a pluggable connection is not normally done, because of the complications of sat antenna switching (aerial is simpler than dish!).

http://www.just-mounts.com/acatalog/...V_Modules.html

... the extension cable to bedroom is socket marked "return" on large wallplate at bottom.
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:13
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"Is it fair to assume they are being too short-sighted if they do not do this".

Yes. to do the work but not install at least the twin drop cables into each flat is just downright stupid. whether or not you originally put in enough switching capacity (which you should).
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:32
spiney2
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simplest way to split terrestrial tv between main and bed rooms is triax outlet link. multi-plug combo, avoids buying separate bits ......

http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/outlet_link.pdf
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:42
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... where a multisat multiswitch is fitted, this "works as if" switching between different satellite antennas. as would happen if you had a large dish with several different lnbs pointed at different satellites. sky receivers do not have diseqc, nor do most of the less expensive freesat ones. but common in continental europe where 2 or 3 satellits may be wanted ........

"Eutelsat apparently developed the system to allow satellite users in Continental Europe to switch between the more popular SES Astra satellites at 19.2 east and Eutelsat's own Hot Bird system at 13 east. As a result, the vast majority of European satellite receivers support DiSEqC 1.0 or higher, with the exception of all set top boxes manufactured under the Sky Digibox name".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSEqC
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Old 27-03-2012, 19:51
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reading original post again ...... sat pvr (twin tuners) means twice as many multiswitch outlets, since 2 drop cables per flat, not just 1.

9 wires would be 2 satellite dishes. ie multi-sat reception with diseqc switching. regardless of how many drop cables go to each flat!

terestrial tv only would be just an aerial distribution amp and 1 drop cable per flat.
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Old 27-03-2012, 20:01
machare
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Don't people want satellite TV in their bedrooms?
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Old 28-03-2012, 09:58
icstm
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cascade switches are the type shown, with trunk line feedthrough. last in chain has "impedence terminators" in the trunk sockets (dont ask!). this allows fairily easy expansion. compact types do not feed through the trunk lines so adding more capacity is very difficult ........
no I think I get that. The network I ran at home was BNC with T pieces and terminators...
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:02
icstm
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Don't people want satellite TV in their bedrooms?
I've never had a TV in my bedroom, but that is the question I am asking. Should I get them to put a sat connection in? If they want 150+vat for a twin socket (which is what I think the preffered bidder is quoting) would that be a good investment?
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:14
icstm
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simplest way to split terrestrial tv between main and bed rooms is triax outlet link. multi-plug combo, avoids buying separate bits ......

http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/outlet_link.pdf
So what is the purpose of that cable to the return socket?
If it is being used to take the TV signal and feed it to the return socket, would not that assume that there is wiring behind that faceplate that goes from the lounge to the bedrooms? If so why use external wiring to connect the TV to the return?
If there is no wiring yet going from the bedroom to the lounge is there another approach?

reading original post again ...... sat pvr (twin tuners) means twice as many multiswitch outlets, since 2 drop cables per flat, not just 1.

9 wires would be 2 satellite dishes. ie multi-sat reception with diseqc switching. regardless of how many drop cables go to each flat!

terestrial tv only would be just an aerial distribution amp and 1 drop cable per flat.
So each drop cable can have multiple satellites feeding it, each with 4 wires?
If the cable itself is coax, what is this "wire" business (I should probably have asked that from the start!
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:36
icstm
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the major work is installing the cables. there should be 2 cables into each flat from the appropriate "distribtion point". To put in the wiring with only 1 cable to each flat wd be just downright stupid.

if a very large system, you might possibly save some money by only installing enough multiswitch capacity for 1 cable per flat, then adding more later. But not much, and calling the installers back in later is horribly expensive. Best to put in enough switching for 2 feeds to each flat to start with.
Just to clarify, the 2 feeds you are referring to would be used up by a PVR, so if an additional satellite socket is required, a third feed would be needed?

If PVRs are common, should they not ensure something like 2.2 feeds per flat (assuming 20% uptake of a third point)?

BTW, that spaun diagram really brings it to life. Am I right in understanding that the 12 SAT IF signals are due to 4 signals per dish, which in relation to the polarised signals the dish receives and why normal home setups a ~20v control voltage is sent from the STB to the LNB?
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:00
grahamlthompson
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[quote=icstm;57357187 Am I right in understanding that the 12 SAT IF signals are due to 4 signals per dish, which in relation to the polarised signals the dish receives and why normal home setups a ~20v control voltage is sent from the STB to the LNB?[/QUOTE]

Starting with a normal universal lnb, It is capable of operating in 4 conditions and is controlled by the tuner it's connected to.

Firstly it's set to recieve the ku band frequencies in two halves. This is switched to high band by imposing a 22KHz tone on the coax. Without the tone the lnb works with the low band frequencies.

The tuner also outputs DC both to power the lnb and switch it to receive either horizontal or vertically polarised transponders.

12.5-14.5V gives vertical and 15.5-18V horizontal.

A Quattro lnb has four elements permanently locked to one each of the four possible combinations so four cables give access to any combination simultanously. This connects to a multiswitch. Each satellite tuner has it's own coax cable from the switches seperate tuner outputs.

The multiswitch intercepts the control signals from each tuner and simply routes the request from the tuner for a specific mode to the appropriate quadrant of the quattro lnb.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:07
spiney2
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good morning !

1st smatv systems were 1 drop wire per flat. then came sky+ which has 2 sat receivers in 1 box. then freesat+. so 2 drop wires now standard. demand for a 3rd wd be rare. so its diminishing returns. decreasing marginal utility as economists say. 2 drop wires let you record 2 sat broadcasts at once. including multisat if installed. plus unlimited terrestrial tv which may also include pvrs.

y wd anyone want 3 drop wires ? even a large family of telly addicts can only consume so much .......
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:16
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the return wire is just single coax tween main and bed rooms. carrying terr tv and remodulated sat on terr analogue one way, and remote control signals back other way. u could have 2nd sat receiver in bedroom but that wd be rare.

sky scr briefly existed for flats but now officially dead. can still be got unofficially but slowly getting obsolete. allows 4 sat channels down single drop wire. good idea but too complicated.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:23
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smatv works thus:

standard sat antenna has 4 switched bands. only one is active with quarter of total channels. sharing single dish between n receivers therefore requires all 4 bands together, with 4xn switching matrix.

shared multisat extends same principle. 2 dishes shared needs 8xn switching, etc .......

you add 1 more trunkline for terrestrial signal. tv plus radio. effectively this is older style matv system just added on.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:24
grahamlthompson
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y wd anyone want 3 drop wires ? even a large family of telly addicts can only consume so much .......

One satellite PVR plus one Freesat TV, hardly that uncommon especially if you have a crap Freeview signal.

If the receivers can use scr then you can in fact connect 2 pvrs to a a pair of cables.

http://www.globalinvacom.com/product...SCR%20iss4.pdf
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:27
spiney2
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One satellite PVR plus one Freesat TV, hardly that uncommon especially if you have a crap Freeview signal.
freesat already comes down both dropwires.

that is y u use triplexed wallplate. for sat and terr together.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:29
joshua_welby
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@AVTECH
Thank you all of that is useful information.
That plate looks like exactly what I think they should offer to install, though if it is fed from a the standard set of wires, I assume I could buy that plate and force them to wire it all up.
They are not going channel their cabling, they are going to use plastic trunking, but they should be flexible to install that faceplate even if they do not offer that in the first place.

If you do not get a satellite feed to the bedroom where can one tap into the main cables to just get TV/radio? Can I only do that from the faceplate, or can I cut into the main cable and use a splitter?

@joshua_welby
This is where I get confused as I have read conflicting information.
Does the system require 4 wires per satellite, or does it require 4 wires concurrent feed to the set-top box? IE if you have 5 dishes do you need 21 wires, or do you only actually need 9 wires, as how to you connect a single set-top box (with one assumes at most 2 tuners) to that many wires?
It is four wires per satellite to the Multiswitch then I do not know what happens, you should insist on having at least two wires/sockets per room,
three if you want to add in a Freesat TV and five wires/sockets if you want another receiver as well
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:31
spiney2
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sky scr is now defunct. the only hd pvr for it is the pace which has to be purchased reconditioned. no longer made. not available from sky.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:36
spiney2
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It is four wires per satellite to the Multiswitch then I do not know what happens, you should insist on having at least two wires/sockets per room,
three if you want to add in a Freesat TV and five wires/sockets if you want another receiver as well
2 drop wires into flat allows 1 twin tuner or 2 single tuner sat receivers. any type. pvr or not.

this includes unlimite terrestrial receivers. including pvrs.

if somebody want to rewire their entire flat with tv sockets every 6 inches thats up to them.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:39
spiney2
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the policy should be 2 drop wires into each flat.

to save only 20 by only running 1 dropwire to a particular flat is crazy.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:40
grahamlthompson
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2 drop wires into flat allows 1 twin tuner or 2 single tuner sat receivers. any type. pvr or not.

this includes unlimite terrestrial receivers. including pvrs.

if somebody want to rewire their entire flat with tv sockets every 6 inches thats up to them.
Right so you assume everyone can get Freeview, some can't, some will only ever get Freeview-lite.

If you can read I said you need 3 cables for a Satellite PVR and a Freesat TV. Hardly unreasonable for someone with a poor Freeview signal.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:43
grahamlthompson
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freesat already comes down both dropwires.

that is y u use triplexed wallplate. for sat and terr together.
And that helps to make a Freesat TV and a Satellite PVR work

How the hell would you get Sky multiroom to work ?
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:46
spiney2
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tv aerial on roof feeds terrestrial signals into smatv system.

its up to installers to use appropriate type of aerial/amplification.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:50
icstm
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And that helps to make a Freesat TV and a Satellite PVR work

How the hell would you get Sky multiroom to work ?
not that I am interested in multi-room, there are 299 other flats. What could the contractors be doing to make multi-room an easier install?
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