[The Turk]

If you're a Liverpool fan do you still still feel you were right to get rid of Roy Hodgson to have Kenny Dalglish as manager?
Obviously, he'll always be a legend for what he did as a player and in his first stint as manager but do you still feel you have the right guy in charge right now in light of recent results and current league standing?

I know its early days and you may say he just needs time to get the balance of the team right and you may well be right.
Which brings me to Roy Hodgson. In the few months he was in charge of Liverpool, I recall, they didn't seem to do any worse under him than they are now under Dalglish, yet Hodgson was hounded out while Dalglish will never get the same treatment because of his legendary status at the club.

But I have to ask, if you were one of those who wanted Hodgson out at the time, do you now have your doubts about Dalglish as well and if not, why do you still have faith in him when you were desperate to get rid of Hodgson for a similar league performance? If Dalglish just needs "more time" why couldn't Hodgson have been given "more time"? He might've turned things around if he'd been given a lot longer than a few months. If you do feel Dalglish is not the right manager anymore, do you feel you were too hasty in getting rid of Hodgson?

I'm in no way writing him off Dalglish myself, especially after how my own team Arsenal have bounced back to form after everyone was writing Wenger off -and I admit I had my doubts about him at the time- and he's proved all his critics wrong, well for now at least anyway.
Its just that it seems strange to me that you got rid of one of the most experienced managers in English football for someone who, so far at least, hasn't improved Liverpool's fortunes by much. Yes, I haven't forgotten your League Cup Win but your league form is far more important and on that, I just don't see any improvement.

[skimminstones]

Originally Posted by The Turk

especially after how my own team Arsenal

just emphasising ths bit before certain people jump to assumptions

[seellee]

Originally Posted by The Turk

If you're a Liverpool fan do you still still feel you were right to get rid of Roy Hodgson to have Kenny Dalglish as manager?
Obviously, he'll always be a legend for what he did as a player and in his first stint as manager but do you still feel you have the right guy in charge right now in light of recent results and current league standing?

I know its early days and you may say he just needs time to get the balance of the team right and you may well be right.
Which brings me to Roy Hodgson. In the few months he was in charge of Liverpool, I recall, they didn't seem to do any worse under him than they are now under Dalglish, yet Hodgson was hounded out while Dalglish will never get the same treatment because of his legendary status at the club.

But I have to ask, if you were one of those who wanted Hodgson out at the time, do you now have your doubts about Dalglish as well and if not, why do you still have faith in him when you were desperate to get rid of Hodgson for a similar league performance? If Dalglish just needs "more time" why couldn't Hodgson have been given "more time"? He might've turned things around if he'd been given a lot longer than a few months. If you do feel Dalglish is not the right manager anymore, do you feel you were too hasty in getting rid of Hodgson?

I'm in no way writing him off Dalglish myself, especially after how my own team Arsenal have bounced back to form after everyone was writing Wenger off -and I admit I had my doubts about him at the time- and he's proved all his critics wrong, well for now at least anyway.
Its just that it seems strange to me that you got rid of one of the most experienced managers in English football for someone who, so far at least, hasn't improved Liverpool's fortunes by much. Yes, I haven't forgotten your League Cup Win but your league form is far more important and on that, I just don't see any improvement.

I trust his judgement as a person who loves the club. I think if he knows he can't do any better with the team he will resign. If he feels he can push forward I'm happy for him to have another season.

Glad Hodgson went too, not the right man for the club at all. His football was rancid at least with Kenny that has gotten better, we are just desperately in need of a striker etc. people seem to think Hodgson was hard done by, yes maybe he was, but was he the right man. No! Absolutely not. I've said this before, but everyone seems to love old Woy, but would they like him as manager. Would you take him as an Arsenal fan?

I have a question for you too. Are you Arsenal fans now happy with Arsene Wenger? Or do you want him gone as that seemed to be the consensus 2 or 3 months ago?

[Big Boy Barry]

Whether Dalglish is the right man for the Liverpool job, Hodgson certainly wasn't.

[Syntax Error]

FAO The Turk, be careful; be very careful.

That's all I'm saying.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by seellee

I trust his judgement as a person who loves the club. I think if he knows he can't do any better with the team he will resign. If he feels he can push forward I'm happy for him to have another season.

Glad Hodgson went too, not the right man for the club at all. His football was rancid at least with Kenny that has gotten better, we are just desperately in need of a striker etc. people seem to think Hodgson was hard done by, yes maybe he was, but was he the right man. No! Absolutely not.

Fair enough. As a Liverpool fan you're more qualified than I to judge whether Liverpool's playing style has at least improved under Dalglish. If Liverpool have improved in that area then I can't argue with that. It certainly seemed like you were playing much more positively when he first took over last season.

[vaughan6477]

Kenny is now a disgrace of a manager , who has personally besmirched each and every one of us LFC supporters by breaking wind in our faces!!!!

At least that's what some members of the media and message boards tell us what we should really think of him

Luckily , we can think for ourselves and ahe a bit of patience with the fella , thanks to his status at the club. It's perhaps unfair on Hodgson that he wasn't Kenny. I'd have settled for the 7th place finish last season , rather than the bottom half one that Roy was heading us towards.

Hoodgson was in charge for 20 matches in the PL last season. His record was
7 wins, 4 draws, and 9 losses.

The team recorded 6 clean sheets. They scored 24 goals and conceded 27 for a goal differential of -3.

They earned 1.25 points per game. Manchester United averaged 2.20, City 1.91, Arsenal 1.90, and Tottenham 1.71 over the same period

We got through the EL group with the same negative tactics from Hodgson of regularly playing two holding midfielders at home.
We also exited the league cup at home to League Two Northampton.

Kenny in charge for the last 18 PL matches was

9 wins, 3 draws, and 3 losses.

The team recorded 8 clean sheets. They scored 30 goals and conceded 12 for a goal differential of +18.

They earned 2.00 points per game. Over the same stretch, Chelsea hummed along at 2.50 while United and Arsenal trailed with 1.93 each

I'd say that late season form was worth giving Kenny the job full time last May.
We all know there's been little improvement towards our likely league finish being anything above 7th this season. A cup in the back can't be ignored though , when we've won at Chelsea and City away in the run towards winning it.
The question is , will people still be critical of Kenny if we manage to finish 6th , as that'll be an improvement of one place on last season.
Probably not due to the money spent last summer on the squad. However , as Chelsea and now City have shown in the past , spending mega bucks doesn't always bring you to where you want to be immediately.

He signed the contract until May 2013 , so I think the owners should give him to at least xmas to see if we can challenge for the top 4 in 2012/2013.

[DUNDEEBOY]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

Kenny is now a disgrace of a manager , who has personally besmirched each and every one of us LFC supporters by breaking wind in our faces!!!!

At least that's what some members of the media and message boards tell us what we should really think of him

Luckily , we can think for ourselves and ahe a bit of patience with the fella , thanks to his status at the club. It's perhaps unfair on Hodgson that he wasn't Kenny. I'd have settled for the 7th place finish last season , rather than the bottom half one that Roy was heading us towards.

Hoodgson was in charge for 20 matches in the PL last season. His record was
7 wins, 4 draws, and 9 losses.

The team recorded 6 clean sheets. They scored 24 goals and conceded 27 for a goal differential of -3.

They earned 1.25 points per game. Manchester United averaged 2.20, City 1.91, Arsenal 1.90, and Tottenham 1.71 over the same period

We got through the EL group with the same negative tactics from Hodgson of regularly playing two holding midfielders at home.
We also exited the league cup at home to League Two Northampton.

Kenny in charge for the last 18 PL matches was

9 wins, 3 draws, and 3 losses.

The team recorded 8 clean sheets. They scored 30 goals and conceded 12 for a goal differential of +18.

They earned 2.00 points per game. Over the same stretch, Chelsea hummed along at 2.50 while United and Arsenal trailed with 1.93 each

I'd say that late season form was worth giving Kenny the job full time last May.
We all know there's been little improvement towards our likely league finish being anything above 7th this season. A cup in the back can't be ignored though , when we've won at Chelsea and City away in the run towards winning it.
The question is , will people still be critical of Kenny if we manage to finish 6th , as that'll be an improvement of one place on last season.
Probably not due to the money spent last summer on the squad. However , as Chelsea and now City have shown in the past. spending mega bucks doesn't always bring you to where you want to be immediately.

I do see what you are saying Dalglish has them where they are meant to be.

Liverpool are a 6th-8th place finish team with the "quality" of the players they have they cannot be expected to finish any higher.

They are light years behind the two Manchester clubs and the three London clubs quality wise

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by DUNDEEBOY

I do see what you are saying Dalglish has them where they are meant to be.

Liverpool are a 6th-8th place finish team with the "quality" of the players they have they cannot be expected to finish any higher.

They are light years behind the two Manchester clubs and the three London clubs quality wise

Light years for now but a lot can change within even a season in football. Redknapp had Spurs going from the bottom 3 to a top 4 finish within 18 months didn't he?
It'll take a lot of hard work and a combination of one or two decent signings , along with a few of last years manning up and looking like they deserve to wear the shirt and you never know.

[Ian Kane]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

Kenny in charge for the last 18 PL matches was

9 wins, 3 draws, and 3 losses.

Maths not my strong point but, what about the other 3 games ?

[TheMunch]

Originally Posted by Ian Kane

Maths not my strong point but, what about the other 3 games ?

W 10
D 3
L 5

The other 3 games were 1 win, 0 draws and 2 defeats. They were the last 3 games.

I think Liverpool effectively threw the Europa League away in the last couple of games. Maybe they were thinking a season without the Europa would help in the league, which it hasn't.

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by Ian Kane

Maths not my strong point but, what about the other 3 games ?

Blame the site I cut n pasted it from without checking

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by TheMunch

I think Liverpool effectively threw the Europa League away in the last couple of games. Maybe they were thinking a season without the Europa would help in the league, which it hasn't.

DIidn't we get knocked out by Benfica. Not bad considering the decent run they've had in the CL this year.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by seellee

I've said this before, but everyone seems to love old Woy, but would they like him as manager. Would you take him as an Arsenal fan?

Good question. Can't say I'd take him now. But would I accept him if we'd just sacked a manager who had spectacularly failed to the point we were nearer the relagation zone than a place in Europe? Yeah, I'd take Hodgson under those circumstances at least.

Personally, I respect him. He's won league titles all over Europe, managed to take Switzerland to the world cup in USA 94 which England themselves failed to qualify for, took Fulham all the way to the UEFA Cup Final and even managed Inter at one point.
And after Liverpool he took over a West Brom side who were in the relagation zone and within weeks they had amassed enough points to ensure they wouldn't be one of the relegation candidates by the end of that season. This season, they are currently just six points behind Liverpool.

I respect his achievements enough to consider him as manager for Arsenal, depending on circumstances at the club.

Originally Posted by seellee

I have a question for you too. Are you Arsenal fans now happy with Arsene Wenger? Or do you want him gone as that seemed to be the consensus 2 or 3 months ago?

Difficult one. I've been dissatisfied with Wenger for the past couple of years and after the horrendous results we got earlier this season I was certain he had to go but I can't ignore the sudden upturn in form which has led to 7 -or is that 8- straight wins into third place, above Spurs now.
I guess he does know what he's doing after all though I'd sure like to know why we weren't playing like that last season or earlier this season?
As for what other Arsenal fans think? F**k knows. I suspect most are as bemused as I am about how this season has panned out and don't have a clue as to what to think of Wenger now.

[BomoLad]

What people miss with Hodgson is that this is what the team can do after a £113m investment. If that £113m investment wasn't there, would Dalglish really be doing that much better than Hodgson? He isn't doing tremendously better now, is he?

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by The Turk

Good question. Can't say I'd take him now. But would I accept him if we'd just sacked a manager who had spectacularly failed to the point we were nearer the relagation zone than a place in Europe? Yeah, I'd take Hodgson under those circumstances at least.

Personally, I respect him. He's won league titles all over Europe, managed to take Switzerland to the world cup in USA 94 which England themselves failed to qualify for, took Fulham all the way to the UEFA Cup Final and even managed Inter at one point.
And after Liverpool he took over a West Brom side who were in the relagation zone and within weeks they had amassed enough points to ensure they wouldn't be one of the relegation candidates by the end of that season. This season, they are currently just six points behind Liverpool.

I respect his achievements enough to consider him as manager for Arsenal, depending on circumstances at the club.

Do you think though , that he's better suited to clubs and countries where the expectancy isn't so high as it would be at a Utd , Arsenal , Liverpool , CIty and Chelsea. Not saying that's all his fault. Any manager is bound to have to deal with bigger egos at bigger clubs than they are with the so called less fashinable ones.

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

What people miss with Hodgson is that this is what the team can do after a £113m investment. If that £113m investment wasn't there, would Dalglish really be doing that much better than Hodgson? He isn't doing tremendously better now, is he?

You are asking us to judge Dalglish against two hypothetical scenarios though. Hodgson isn't there now and won't be coming back so we'll never know.

It would be interesting , as a general debate , to hear the views of other supporters on who could be our manager if Dalglish was to depart. What if a Villa Boas , Blanc , O'Neill etc took over and we didn't improve in the league again in another season , with spending similar to that of recent levels. WIthout a cup , then would that prove that KD was better than them?

[Mark F]

Don't forget "Woy" was mates with Sir Alex Ferguson which never went down well at Anfield!

They all love Daliglish too much to really give the bloke stick but TBF some have questioned the signings made.

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

Do you think though , that he's better suited to clubs and countries where the expectancy isn't so high as it would be at a Utd , Arsenal , Liverpool , CIty and Chelsea. Not saying that's all his fault. Any manager is bound to have to deal with bigger egos at bigger clubs than they are with the so called less fashinable ones.

But the squad he had wasn't very good and was in need of investment. He didn't get that investment and as a result, results were poor.

KD has got that investment and the results are still poor.

That taken into consideration the disparity between 'He's shit, he's useless' and the sarcastic 'Woy for England' chants, and the 'here comes the our saviour' reverence to Dalglish, it does seem bizarre. To me, at least. Okay if you want to say both are crap. But we seem to be seeing a suspension of disbelief here.

If Hodgson was given the backing that KD was and achieved similar in the league, there would have been angry demands for his departure weeks, if not moths ago.

I think a lot of non-LFC fans see it is that one guy did crap but wasn't given any money, other guy was given loads of money but still crap. Yet the second guy didn't receive 1% of the criticism the first guy got, really from day one he was appointed.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by Syntax Error

FAO The Turk, be careful; be very careful.

That's all I'm saying.

If you're referring to the Scouse mafia I've already deployed my bullet proof vest.

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

But the squad he had wasn't very good and was in need of investment. He didn't get that investment and as a result, results were poor.

KD has got that investment and the results are still poor.

That taken into consideration the disparity between 'He's shit, he's useless' and the sarcastic 'Woy for England' chants, and the 'here comes the our saviour' reverence to Dalglish is odd.

If Hodgson was given the backing that KD was and achieved similar in the league, there would have been angry demands for his departure weeks, if not moths ago.

I think a lot of non-LFC fans see it is that one guy did crap but wasn't given any money, other guy was given loads of money but still crap. Yet the second guy didn't receive 1% of the criticism the first guy got, really from day one he was appointed.

It appears hypocritical when you put it like that. Name me one person or set of people who haven't contradicted themselves in life though. Least of all in the highly pressurised world of the PL.

First impressions do also count for a lot. Hodgson looked like a miserable frightened puppy from day one at Anfield and that spread through to the teams selection and displays. Of course we rate Kenny more as a club legend and are willing to be more patient with him.

Imagine SIr Alex being replaced at Utd by Hodgson , who then took you to some poor results was sacked and replaced by Giggs or Scholes. Who then had a bit of improvement at first in the league as KD did , won a cup but looked to be out of the CL running. I'm guessing you'd be giving them more time as all time greats at the club. Add to that fact if they'd also player managed then managed you to titles before then you would undoubtedly have more patience with what they were doing.

Our league form this season wasn't disastrous , probably until the whole Suarez affair. It's possible that was getting to KD as was the whole circus around his behaviour.

I look forward to next term under him with little or no controversy

[TheMunch]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

DIidn't we get knocked out by Benfica. Not bad considering the decent run they've had in the CL this year.

I wish. Instead we got knocked out by SC Braga.

I meant we gave up the Europa League by losing the last two games which could have got us into a Europa League spot. I think Liverpool didn't want to go into the competition for this season. Either they didn't want to or they simply didn't care about it.

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by TheMunch

I wish. Instead we got knocked out by SC Braga.

I meant we gave up the Europa League by losing the last two games which could have got us into a Europa League spot. I think Liverpool didn't want to go into the competition for this season. Either they didn't want to or they simply didn't care about it.

It began with B and ended with a so that's close enough!

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

Do you think though , that he's better suited to clubs and countries where the expectancy isn't so high as it would be at a Utd , Arsenal , Liverpool , CIty and Chelsea. Not saying that's all his fault. Any manager is bound to have to deal with bigger egos at bigger clubs than they are with the so called less fashinable ones.

I've thought about that often but apart from Inter and liverpool he's never been given a chance at a big club and I still think he wasn't given anywhere near enough time at Liverpool. if he'd failed to take them to Europe after one full season and failed again the following season then fair enough but to get rid of him after just what, four months was it? No-where near enough time to judge whether he was a success at liverpool. Unfortunately for him, everyone at liverpool were just desperate to have Kenny back. And I suspect too many English footie fans are completely unaware of Roy's time at Inter where I thinK he did a decent enough job as far as I know.

My answer to your question is that I don't think anyone can say for certain he's only suited for small clubs until he's been given a fair proper crack of the whip with a big club and by that I mean at least two full seasons.

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by The Turk

ool. if he'd failed to take them to Europe after one full season and failed again the following season then fair enough but to get rid of him after just what, four months was it? No-where near enough time to judge whether he was a success at liverpool. .

We'll never know but based on what he did do , then he wasn't a success in the league or any of the cups. I don't think the new owners could be accused of not acting swiftly with his departure. I think it was October or early November when they took over and they did give him until January before the sack. We might've expected a lift in team performance with the off field future of the club being sorted but the same malaise stayed on the pitch until he departed.