[seellee]

Originally Posted by The Turk

I've thought about that often but apart from Inter and liverpool he's never been given a chance at a big club and I still think he wasn't given anywhere near enough time at Liverpool. if he'd failed to take them to Europe after one full season and failed again the following season then fair enough but to get rid of him after just what, four months was it? No-where near enough time to judge whether he was a success at liverpool. Unfortunately for him, everyone at liverpool were just desperate to have Kenny back. And I suspect too many English footie fans are completely unaware of Roy's time at Inter where I thinK he did a decent enough job as far as I know.

My answer to your question is that I don't think anyone can say for certain he's only suited for small clubs until he's been given a fair proper crack of the whip with a big club and by that I mean at least two full seasons.

Let's face it, Hodgson is classed as a perfect gentleman by many fans, yet most wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

Dalglish is going to get more of a chance because of who he is. I'd rather give Dalglish another season than Hodgson. At the end of the day we don't want to sack managers at the rate Chelsea do.

[Thank you]

He has to be the worst manager in the transfer market I've seen for a long, long time...

Last summer they were in a great position to work their way towards become a CL team again. He went and brought players who would dream of playing in the EUROPA league lol, and spent a ton on them.

Downing, Henderson, Adam - WTF?

Hyped up British players not worthy of a top 4 side, surprised he didn't get sacked for that alone (oh wait he's the king...)

Suarez and Enrique only decent signings. Caroll doesn't even need mentioning.

[Big Boy Barry]

Originally Posted by The Turk

Good question. Can't say I'd take him now. But would I accept him if we'd just sacked a manager who had spectacularly failed to the point we were nearer the relagation zone than a place in Europe? Yeah, I'd take Hodgson under those circumstances at least.

Personally, I respect him. He's won league titles all over Europe, managed to take Switzerland to the world cup in USA 94 which England themselves failed to qualify for, took Fulham all the way to the UEFA Cup Final and even managed Inter at one point.
And after Liverpool he took over a West Brom side who were in the relagation zone and within weeks they had amassed enough points to ensure they wouldn't be one of the relegation candidates by the end of that season. This season, they are currently just six points behind Liverpool.

I respect his achievements enough to consider him as manager for Arsenal, depending on circumstances at the club.

Difficult one. I've been dissatisfied with Wenger for the past couple of years and after the horrendous results we got earlier this season I was certain he had to go but I can't ignore the sudden upturn in form which has led to 7 -or is that 8- straight wins into third place, above Spurs now.
I guess he does know what he's doing after all though I'd sure like to know why we weren't playing like that last season or earlier this season?
As for what other Arsenal fans think? F**k knows. I suspect most are as bemused as I am about how this season has panned out and don't have a clue as to what to think of Wenger now.

Has it really come to this?

An Arsenal fan willing to consider Roy Hodgson as manager?

Good grief.

[mike65]

If I'd have known about Hodgsons face-rubbing I'd have feared the worst from the very start. As it happens I was in the "he'll steady the ship" boat when appointed but quickly saw he wasn't up to the job of a high profile job under constant scrutiny which is why clubs like Fulham or WBA is where he operates best.

As for Dalgish, he is increasingly disappointing I have to say. Turned out to be very conservative a manager with a bad eye for a bargain! I'd be happy enough to see him quit, with an FA Cup if possible.

[Mad Man Moon]

The problem with Hodgson was that he "didn't get" Liverpool. He constantly wound up the fans, with his press conferences. Stuff like "Northampton Town will be a formidable challenge" or asking the fans not to have a go at Hicks and Gillett..

Dalglish at least understands the mentality of the city and the fans.

I personally always thought it would be a bad idea for Kenny to come back, but the fans made it impossible for anyone else to replace Uncle Roy.. Now we have to give Kenny a fair crack of the whip.

[ChristmasCake]

I don't think Roy Hodgson is a bad manager. There I said it. I have a lot of respect for what he's done in the game. If you look back to my posts around his appointment, you'll see I was actually quite positive about it.

It didn't work out for Roy at Liverpool. Does that make him a bad manager? No, of course it doesn't.

However, he just wasn't the right fit for the club.

Kenny on the other hand is. You won't hear many with a bad word to say about him. Should we be doing better with the squad we currently have? Based on their form, obviously the answer is no. The league table does not lie.

Based on the signings and where we thought we were at the start of the season? Absolutely. Kenny wants us to be challenging on all fronts, however, he has found out we don't have the quality in our squad for that.

It's a shame that he hasn't given some of the youngsters a chance, like he did last season, because the likes of Flanagan and Robinson certainly showed that they are up for it.

Missing the likes of Agger, Johnson, Lucas, Kelly and Bellamy has a huge effect on the quality of our squad, because we just do not have the depth.

If you think about it though, it's very easy to lay the blame at Kenny's door. He had to move on 77 millions worth of dross, and replace that, which is never easy.

Part of the success at united, in my opinion is down to the fact that they have a relatively settled squad. They never have to make drastic changes. They move on two players, and bring one in.

That's where we need to be. This reminds me almost of Rafa's initial seasons in charge, where he had to build a squad. Kenny has to do the same. He needs a couple of seasons to get a decent squad in place.

Do I think he is the right man in charge? Absolutely.

Do I think his signings have worked out? On the whole ...no. That's something we're unfortunately used to though at Anfield, looking back retrospectively and saying someone was not a good signing.

At the time, I'd say Adam was a good addition to the squad. Due to injuries, he's not playing in a role that suits him.

I'm limited by time now as I have to get to work, so I'll end the post here, but I definitely think that Kenny deserves more time.

Some may laugh, but let them, I prefer to see where we are at the end of the season and judge it from there.

Two trophies and potentially sixth would not be a great season, but it wouldn't be a disastrous one either.

[misawa97]

regardless whether it was dalglish or anyone else hodgson had to go. he was nothing short of a joke and when he was appointed I said it was a bad move.

[Big Boy Barry]

Liverpool need that FA Cup win. Along with the Carling Cup already in the bag and with a probable 7th place finish, it could be considered a relatively successful season, but with major work still required. The striker situation in particular is dire. It's about mentality for Liverpool. Heads go down too quickly, players stop playing before the 90 minutes are up, and the team are seemingly incapable of getting motivated for games against teams like QPR and Wigan.

Dalglish is also causing problems for himself by being so Strachan-esque in his interviews. All that does is build antagonism towards him and the club from the media. It's 2012. A football manager has to be more urbane with media relations.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

But the squad he had wasn't very good and was in need of investment. He didn't get that investment and as a result, results were poor.

KD has got that investment and the results are still poor.

That taken into consideration the disparity between 'He's shit, he's useless' and the sarcastic 'Woy for England' chants, and the 'here comes the our saviour' reverence to Dalglish, it does seem bizarre. To me, at least. Okay if you want to say both are crap. But we seem to be seeing a suspension of disbelief here.

If Hodgson was given the backing that KD was and achieved similar in the league, there would have been angry demands for his departure weeks, if not moths ago.

I think a lot of non-LFC fans see it is that one guy did crap but wasn't given any money, other guy was given loads of money but still crap. Yet the second guy didn't receive 1% of the criticism the first guy got, really from day one he was appointed.

Good post. Sums up my thoughts exactly as a non-LFC fan.

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

It appears hypocritical when you put it like that. Name me one person or set of people who haven't contradicted themselves in life though. Least of all in the highly pressurised world of the PL.

First impressions do also count for a lot. Hodgson looked like a miserable frightened puppy from day one at Anfield and that spread through to the teams selection and displays. Of course we rate Kenny more as a club legend and are willing to be more patient with him.

Imagine SIr Alex being replaced at Utd by Hodgson , who then took you to some poor results was sacked and replaced by Giggs or Scholes. Who then had a bit of improvement at first in the league as KD did , won a cup but looked to be out of the CL running. I'm guessing you'd be giving them more time as all time greats at the club. Add to that fact if they'd also player managed then managed you to titles before then you would undoubtedly have more patience with what they were doing.

Our league form this season wasn't disastrous , probably until the whole Suarez affair. It's possible that was getting to KD as was the whole circus around his behaviour.

I look forward to next term under him with little or no controversy

Good point I have to admit. What happened to Roy at Liverpool would most probably have happened to him at Arsenal as well as any other big club.

Originally Posted by Mark F

Don't forget "Woy" was mates with Sir Alex Ferguson which never went down well at Anfield!

Yeah, that didn't help either. Though I do think LFC fans have got a little confused about Fergie. Being the manager of the red devils doesn't make him THE Devil. He's not the dark overlord intent on destroying Liverpool at all costs. He's just a very good manager of a very good team. It should not be a crime to be friends with Fergie but yeah I know, that's football isn't it!

Originally Posted by seellee

Let's face it, Hodgson is classed as a perfect gentleman by many fans, yet most wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

Dalglish is going to get more of a chance because of who he is. I'd rather give Dalglish another season than Hodgson. At the end of the day we don't want to sack managers at the rate Chelsea do.

Completely agree with every word there. That reflects the reality of the situation. I don't think its fair on Hodgson but it is the reality. Maybe you and others are right though. Maybe he's just better suited to the smaller clubs anyway.

[Big Boy Barry]

Yeah, that didn't help either. Though I do think LFC fans have got a little confused about Fergie. Being the manager of the red devils doesn't make him THE Devil. He's not the dark overlord intent on destroying Liverpool at all costs. He's just a very good manager of a very good team. It should not be a crime to be friends with Fergie but yeah I know, that's football isn't it!

Being friends with another manager is fine.

But saying something like this goes way beyond that for a man who is speaking about the manager of a club of which his own club maintains one of the most heated rivalries in world football.

I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

“I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

“I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out.

“I rang the Fulham chairman (Mohamed Al Fayed). That was one phone call I had to get out of the way. Alex might be the next one.”

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Barry

Has it really come to this?

An Arsenal fan willing to consider Roy Hodgson as manager?

Good grief.

Im just saying I wouldn't say no to him under ALL circumstances. I can't ignore his record in other European leagues and unlike most other managers currently in the PL, he's actually won trophies. The problem is that I think a lot of English footie fans ignore what someone achieves in other countries as if it never happened. As a result, England is probably the only country where Hodgson wouldn't be given a fair chance at a big club. Even in Italy he was respected enough to get the Inter job. Its the same with Mclaren, he wins trophies with FC Twente in Holland but because he failed with England he'll probably never be taken seriously here ever again. We just don't care what they achieve abroad, if they fail with a big club here then they're a failure, no ifs, no buts.

Originally Posted by Mad Man Moon

The problem with Hodgson was that he "didn't get" Liverpool. He constantly wound up the fans, with his press conferences. Stuff like "Northampton Town will be a formidable challenge"

To be fair, he was proved right.

Originally Posted by Big Boy Barry

Being friends with another manager is fine.

But saying something like this goes way beyond that for a man who is speaking about the manager of a club of which his own club maintains one of the most heated rivalries in world football.

I know Sir Alex is not really a Liverpool man,” said *Hodgson, “so I’m a bit *concerned about my excellent relationship with him.

“I sincerely hope he forgives me for moving north and hopefully we can have a glass of wine together, maybe in secret.

“I hope that’s how he is going to see it – but he is one of the people I intend to ring to find out.

“I rang the Fulham chairman (Mohamed Al Fayed). That was one phone call I had to get out of the way. Alex might be the next one.”

Is that what he said?! OK, I'll concede a point to you there. I admit that was ill-advised from Roy at best. I can totally understand LFC fans getting angry with him for that.

[Big Boy Barry]

Im just saying I wouldn't say no to him under ALL circumstances. I can't ignore his record in other European leagues and unlike most other managers currently in the PL, he's actually won trophies. The problem is that I think a lot of English footie fans ignore what someone achieves in other countries as if it never happened.

No, it's not ignored, but rather put into context. He's won trophies in Sweden and Denmark. However in the more demanding European leagues, he's won nothing. Elsewhere he's lost two UEFA Cup finals, and got Switzerland to the second round of the World Cup nearly two decades ago.

As a result, England is probably the only country where Hodgson wouldn't be given a fair chance at a big clubEven in Italy he was respected enough to get the Inter job.

Liverpool are a big club. He blew it. He got the Inter job, but so have many others. The owner is notorious for quickfire hiring and firing of managers.

Its the same with Mclaren, he wins trophies with FC Twente in Holland but because he failed with England he'll probably never be taken seriously here ever again. We just don't care what they achieve abroad, if they fail with a big club here then they're a failure, no ifs, no buts.

McClaren is one of those managers who's successes are basically flashes in the pan. A cup at Boro, a title at Twente etc....but capable of crashing and burning too (eg: Wolfsberg). When pushed above their station, they struggle (eg: England). Guys like Hodgson are not suited for anything above a 11th-20th place club who have expectations no higher than avoiding relegation. He's a journeyman manager. Nothing more.

To be fair, he was proved right.

Or his words needlessly encouraged Northampton.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by ChristmasCake

I don't think Roy Hodgson is a bad manager. There I said it. I have a lot of respect for what he's done in the game. If you look back to my posts around his appointment, you'll see I was actually quite positive about it.

It didn't work out for Roy at Liverpool. Does that make him a bad manager? No, of course it doesn't.

However, he just wasn't the right fit for the club..

Fair enough. I know not all Liverpool fans wanted rid of Roy from day one and were willing to give him a fair chance. I have to say, though one poster joked that I should be very careful after starting this thread I was actually bracing myself for abuse from LFC fans but so far I haven't had a single one and I know at least some of you who've responded to me on this thread are Liverpool fans, including you of course. So I just want to say thank you to you and all other LFC fans -as well as non LFC fans- who've responded to this thread for your mature responses. Obviously most of you had a different pov on this issue but that's ok because its the whole point of debate of course but I'm impressed by how you've all just simply engaged in debate without saying stuff along the lines of 'what a ridiculous thread' or 'the op doesn't have a clue what he's talking about' or 'why don't you mind your own f*****g business'.

I'm not patronising LFC fans, I would've expected abuse if I had started a similar thread about any other team including my own but Liverpool fans on this thread have pleasantly surprised me so you should all give yourselves a pat on the back.

[alancracker]

Ok perhaps foolishly I'll bite and try to answer the OP's question.

First - Hodgson? Imo I am struggling to find one thing he did well at LFC. I won't waste a lot of time on this as a lot of it has been mentioned already but matters like
signings
style of play - home and away
interviews
attitude to the fans
failure to admit any personal fault for any of it
attitude to the former owners
and above all
results are the reasons why he was a complete failure and tbh looking at his record I am not sure he has ever really done much good. He acts like the manager of a mid table team and at LFC there is a somewhat higher expectation than that. So in an unprecedented move as we always give managers a fair amount of time (too much some would say) he was sacked only 6 months after taking over - the club was in a total mess with the matches being almost unwatchably bad - remember LFC 0 Wolves 1 at the end of 2010. That was prob the worst display but there were many other contenders and he simply had to go. Games were not even being sold out which is unheard of at LFC.

At that point there was only one man on the planet who could unite the club - and he was appointed on a temp basis. The transformation was immediate and astonishing - a lot of it was even with the same players altho Meireles apart few of RHs signings were used. Also Steve Clarke came in which was a good addition to the coaching staff. Even non LFC fans I think would agree that the last 4 months of last season we were pretty good apart from one or two matches. Nobody disputed giving Kenny the job full time just under a year ago.

The owners gave him money in the summer and he signed players who were good for their English clubs last season like Adam and Downing. Nobody could have foreseen how bad those two and some of the others would play this season. Henderson had won a cap last season as a 20 year old and is the current U21 captain so again he was not an obvious mistake at the time. As LFC fans we had hoped this season would be even better than the end of last season but altho there has been good aspects (winning the Carling Cup and the FA cup run) there have been a lot of disappointments too - notable the league performances especially since Xmas. We are now out of the race for top 4 and the most likely place to finish is 7th - not as high as we'd hoped. Even so I think the style of play is much better with a generally attacking formation and an attempt to play in a pass and move way.

So what should we do? - sack Kenny and get someone else in? - well imo no as Kenny understands what the fans want and how they think more than anyone. By this I mean the style of play wanted (= attacking, pass and move), the priorities (= win the league), the way we want to be portrayed in the media (= no leaks, do not air dirty washing in public), the kind of players wanted at the club (= no fancy dans - hard working players who are loyal to each other)...etc.

I do think that he has succeeded in turning the club round in most of those areas but the biggest one and the hardest one to accomplice is success on the field. This is especially so when other clubs can get the obvious transfer targets in due to having more money - in the past when he was first the manager he could do that. So we have to find players to do the job outside of the obvious ones and the first batch of players we have signed have clearly not done as well as we'd liked.

i would not like to see us ditch them all but neither would I like to see most of them in the first choice eleven at the start of next season - what happens this summer will be very interesting. As far as i am concerned tho Carroll can go and prob Henderson too as neither to me look like they will ever be good enough to be LFC players - but that is just my opinion and if they are still there in August no probs - just as long as new people are brought in who are better!! Also injuries tom key players like Lucas, Gerrard and Agger have not helped as well as the Suarez saga

So to answer the question - we still love him, we always will as he talks like most LFC fans want a LFC manager to talk, but if by a years time it is still not working in terms of PL success then maybe we should change manager - but he deserves at least one more season to show what he can do. The thing is tho the man has so much class i think he will walk away when he feels like there is no further progress to make - we are nowhere near at that point yet

[Alfie2008]

Times have changed a lot since Dalglish last managed Liverpool. It was unrealistic to expect miracles from him.

[soulboy77]

Originally Posted by Alfie2008

Times have changed a lot since Dalglish last managed Liverpool. It was unrealistic to expect miracles from him.

Too right. The game has moved on since Kenny really was king. The bar has simply been set higher as to what it takes to win the English top league. You can no longer buy three or four decent players and expect a mediocre team to suddenly be vying for the title. There has to be quality throughout the core squad and then you need the tactical nouse to use the right players for the right games.

[kobashi100]

Originally Posted by soulboy77

Too right. The game has moved on since Kenny really was king. The bar has simply been set higher as to what it takes to win the English top league. You can no longer buy three or four decent players and expect a mediocre team to suddenly be vying for the title. There has to be quality throughout the core squad and then you need the tactical nouse to use the right players for the right games.

you first need to sign 3 or 4 decent players though.

Kenny signed 4 average players!

[alancracker]

I really find some of these posts which say stuff like 'the game has moved in since Kenny was last manager' which sort of imply he is some sort of an idiot who does not understand the game in 2012 a bit patronising and ridiculous tbh.

He more than understands what is required - good players - as it always has been - simple!! Currently we have some good players but not enough.

And no in 1990 and in the years before that when we were successful you did not just need 3 or 4 good players, you needed a team of good players - as we had then. Different types of player in that some were striking superstar type players (Barnes, Rush, Beardsley) and others just quietly got on with the job and did it well (Whelan, Neal, Lawro, Craig Johnston). That's what we need to rediscover and Kenny maybe hoped that in Hendo and Carroll he had players of that calibre we needed. He was wrong it seems but we move on and try to get people of the right standard now. And btw remember that Kenny in the summer of 1987 signed Barnes, Aldo and Beardsley after Rush left and so he can find good players you know. Those 3 signings gave us maybe our best ever side in 1987/88

Its not rocket science, it was simple game then and remains so now.

[Jimmy_McNulty]

Originally Posted by alancracker

I really find some of these posts which say stuff like 'the game has moved in since Kenny was last manager' which sort of imply he is some sort of an idiot who does not understand the game in 2012 a bit patronising and ridiculous tbh.

He more than understands what is required - good players - as it always has been - simple!! Currently we have some good players but not enough.
.

What is a good player? What does it take to win this league? What does it take to win the Champions League? Kenny hasn't got a clue, that is why Liverpool's form is SO BAD. Who are you going to blame their appallingly bad form on? God? Karma? An FA conspiracy?

It's Kenny's fault. Simple as.

You talk about good players. Are Adam, Carroll, Henderson good players? Are they what is required do you think?

And the game has moved on. If you fail to see that you are as deluded as KD i am afraid.

[ChristmasCake]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_McNulty

What is a good player? What does it take to win this league? What does it take to win the Champions League? Kenny hasn't got a clue, that is why Liverpool's form is SO BAD. Who are you going to blame their appallingly bad form on? God? Karma? An FA conspiracy?

It's Kenny's fault. Simple as.

You talk about good players. Are Adam, Carroll, Henderson good players? Are they what is required do you think?

And the game has moved on. If you fail to see that you are as deluded as KD i am afraid.

I can't be bothered to answer every question there, but I will say, that anyone who knows Liverpool F.C, will realise that Agger and Johnson being out, are what is behind our most recent blip..

[vaughan6477]

Originally Posted by ChristmasCake

I can't be bothered to answer every question there, but I will say, that anyone who knows Liverpool F.C, will realise that Agger and Johnson being out, are what is behind our most recent blip..

Well said CC , just expect the usual suspects to throw hyperbole in our direction to anything an LFC poster says though. |The fact that Hodgson , for example is brought up in this and other threads is truth of any rational progressive debate on Kenny Dalglish current situation as lacking.

I've already invited other supporters to advise as to where we're going wrong. Quite a few have responded in kind but they're being over-run by those who take every opportunity to denigrate everything about our club.

I certainly wouldn't be posting about a different club every day , if and when we're battling for a title again.

Is it just me that thinks we don't really need to listen to the opinions of others who've had managerial stabiliity at the clubs they follow for a quarter of a century. |That , to me , is just as far removed in terms of giving a topical opinion , as KD being out of the game for twenty years and being away too long.

[ChristmasCake]

Originally Posted by vaughan6477

Well said CC , just expect the usual suspects to throw hyperbole in our direction to anything an LFC poster says though. |The fact that Hodgson , for example is brought up in this and other threads is truth of any rational progressive debate on Kenny Dalglish current situation as lacking.

I've already invited other supporters to advise as to where we're going wrong. Quite a few have responded in kind but they're being over-run by those who take every opportunity to denigrate everything about our club.

I certainly wouldn't be posting about a different club every day , if and when we're battling for a title again.

Is it just me that thinks we don't really need to listen to the opinions of others who've had managerial stabiliity at the clubs they follow for a quarter of a century. |That , to me , is just as far removed in terms of giving a topical opinion , as KD being out of the game for twenty years and being away too long.

It's not only managerial stability that they've had, but also, stability in terms of players.

I think that can be taken for granted.

People baulk at Kenny's transfers, but when you look at how many players he let go, bringing in 77 million... he was almost forced to bring in new players.

If anyone can be blamed for the buying British thing, it's almost certainly our new board. It was their idea for this whole buying young British players thing.

[alancracker]

Thats the prob with this thread and the clown and flops thread too - it seems as if they are asking what LFC fans think so we tell them and then folk come on and call us deluded or make fun of us in other ways.

Now I don't know about others but i am not keen on being called deluded so it makes me not want to contribute to these type of threads. And whether you think i am deluded or not it is not going to make me change what I think which i have tried to explain as civilly as i can.

[Thank you]

His press conferences and media interviews are pointless. He's so narky and defensive, you empathise with the person asking the questions which rarely happens.

[ChristmasCake]

Originally Posted by Thank you

His press conferences and media interviews are pointless. He's so narky and defensive, you empathise with the person asking the questions which rarely happens.

He's even banned Dan Roan(BBC reporter) from attending his press conferences. Kenny is cracking up and Liverpool fans know it.

Kenny basically gives nothing away. I don't see anything wrong with that. Liverpool were always a club that conducted their business behind closed doors. I'm glad that he's taking us back to that, Suarez stuff aside..