[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by Granny McSmith

I apologise if you thought my post was rude. It was not intended to be.

I agree that your post was quite fair.

I'm happy to accept your apology however the remainder of this post is bemusing. The comment you made was obviously directed at me. No one else had respond to the post made by Silent Fez, so it's not a case of me thinking it was about me when it wasn't. And as such, given you acknowledge my post was quite fair, it is difficult for me to imagine any circumstance under which you might reasonably imagine I would not think your post was rude. It was more than rude, it was gleefully malicious.

[Mystical123]

Originally Posted by Granny McSmith

Less means less. It might mean better quality, but it cannot mean more in number. .

I didn't ever say it would mean more in number (in fact my post clearly says the contrary), the adage 'less is more' tends to refer to quality, but I apologise for not making that clear if it wasn't. I make no apology however for my optimism that fewer episodes may mean better quality, and I don't think anyone should have to apologise for being optimistic in that respect.

I don't think I'm being unrealistic. I clearly stated that it's obvious that there will be fewer hours of DW this year, which is a no-brainer. However, I do think that some people (and I'm not talking about you in particular) did seem to be talking with a sense of us being entitled to a full series every year, which is what I disagree with and which is what I was arguing against the whole time. Disappointment with the scheduling is one thing, but at the end of the day the bottom line is that DW will be airing this year, and I find it quite disheartening that people cannot accept that we're fortunate to have that.

I've been on this forum for a long time, I know full well where the ignore button is. I just tend to prefer reading peoples' posts rather than having threads full of hidden posts, which I believe is my prerogative to do.

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

I'm happy to except your apology however the remainder of this post is bemusing. The comment you made was obviously directed at me. No one else had respond to the post made by Silent Fez, so it's not a case of me thinking it was about me when it wasn't. And as such, given you acknowledge my post was quite fair, it is difficult for me to imagine any circumstance under which you might reasonably imagine I would not think your post was rude. It was more than rude, it was gleefully malicious.

No, it was trying to be funny, and obviously failing totally!

My post was a reference to your comment about the fact that the series running through to 2013 didn't mean it was not a series. Of course it is a series, but that was not the point. SilentFez was referring to the number of episodes in 2012. He was disappointed that there would not be a full series in 2012 and another in 2013.

I accept that your post didn't "jump on" SilentFez, but neither did it say "You are right - there is no full series in 2012, and unlikely to be one in late 2013".

Imo, this is putting a favourable spin on events. You are entitled to do that, of course, but it stirs up memories for me of when I got shouted down when I suggested (many months ago now) that the number of episodes would be curtailed.

It was to this I referred when I said "expect to get jumped on" - I was, quite often!

I'm sorry, but the "You already have been" bit was intended to be a joke. I know you had responded, to SilentFez, but I didn't really mean it personally to you. As such, I apologise, and I hope you can understand my thought processes.

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by Mystical123

I didn't ever say it would mean more in number (in fact my post clearly says the contrary), the adage 'less is more' tends to refer to quality, but I apologise for not making that clear if it wasn't. I make no apology however for my optimism that fewer episodes may mean better quality, and I don't think anyone should have to apologise for being optimistic in that respect.

I don't think I'm being unrealistic. I clearly stated that it's obvious that there will be fewer hours of DW this year, which is a no-brainer. However, I do think that some people (and I'm not talking about you in particular) did seem to be talking with a sense of us being entitled to a full series every year, which is what I disagree with and which is what I was arguing against the whole time. Disappointment with the scheduling is one thing, but at the end of the day the bottom line is that DW will be airing this year, and I find it quite disheartening that people cannot accept that we're fortunate to have that.

I've been on this forum for a long time, I know full well where the ignore button is. I just tend to prefer reading peoples' posts rather than having threads full of hidden posts, which I believe is my prerogative to do.

Of course it is, just as you can be as optimistic as you like, and consider quality more important than quantity.

What I don't like is to be told I can't be critical if I see people (like the OP) believing the hype, then being disappointed. Or told I should be grateful for what I get episode wise, and not moan. I can post what I want, and it's unfortunate if others see me as negative.

And if they do, and it upsets them, then we can have a good old ding-dong, and clear the air.

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

All of you stop BICKERING or I'll alert it!

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by Sophie ~Oohie~

All of you stop BICKERING or I'll alert it!

Bickering? What can you mean? I never bicker! I discuss things in a rational and intelligent manner! Clearly!

[DS9]

Originally Posted by Mystical123

I think it's very unfair of you to insinuate that that is what the people who were discussing this with you were trying to deny, because that wasn't the case at all!!

Of course we're probably getting fewer episodes, I don't think anyone will deny that, but that's not the point. The point is that some people on here seem to think that we are entitled to a certain number of episodes each year, which is simply not the case!!! We're not entitled to anything, and the number of episodes we get is entirely up to the production team - take 2009 as a classic example of fewer episodes.

Moffat could freely have chosen not to air any episodes this year at all and come back with a bang in 2013 - that would have been legitimately his choice to make. So I think people are focusing far too much on the negative that we're getting fewer episodes than a previous year, and forgetting that less can sometimes mean more, and that at the end of the day at least we're getting some episodes this year.

And an aside, I really don't appreciate the labelling and mocking tone at those who have a different view to you on this topic...

I deny it. Probably means "likely to happen" or "most likely to be true" and without any kind of direct evidence to support the assertion we're getting less episodes I don't see how it can be likely.

What I don't like is people moaning about us getting less episodes when we might not be. More than anything I want the same number of episodes so I can say "see that's what you get when you think you know it all."

[tom1979]

Im hoping for:

Autum 2012 - 6 episodes

Spring 2013 - 7 Episodes
Autum 2013 - 12 Episodes

Then moving to a 12 Episode block in Autum. 11 regular episodes & a christmas Special.
Then could then move the 13th Episode to be an Easter or Bank Holiday special to bridge the gap to Autum like The Christmas episode has done in the past?

[Whovian1109]

Just as a point of interest IF (and I'm not sure either way) Moffat makes the episodes an hour long in series 7 and the Anniversary (which he might do seeing as Matt referred to ep 5 as an hour long and Moffat refers to them as "blockbuster" which as they're only 1 ep stories implies they might be longer) then in terms of time, it would only take 20 hour long eps to match 26 eps so we'd only need half a dozen or so eps in Autumn 2013 to match as long as if we'd had two full sets of 13 And in any case, I don't think the amount of eps we'd lose would be drastic and may help to increase the impact of the anniversary.

[Granny McSmith]

Usual year's output = 14 episodes (13 week series + 1 Christmas Special)

Over 2 years, this = 28 episodes

This year's output = 6 episodes.

Next year there will be 22 episodes, then. 7 after Christmas and 15 later in the year?

Any less than that will mean fewer episodes, of course.

I just hope Moffat leaves himself time to make another Sherlock series with all that work!

[nebogipfel]

I have some sympathy with Granny here. There was a distinct sense that merely to observe that there is a possibility of fewer than 28 episodes over 2012 / 2013 was to be accused of having a sense of entitlement. And to express any disappointment about it was an even worse crime. Neither sentiments necessarily imply a sense of entitlement.

Of course there are some who have whined a bit in an "entitlement" way, but not everyone.

I've already posted my thoughts on blockbuster extra length episodes as compensation for fewer of them and can't be bothered to repeat them here.

We don't know what we'll be getting. But if the number of extra episodes for 2013 was more then just a few I tend to think they'd have been a little more specific about it. But who knows? We live in hope.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

I have some sympathy with Granny here. There was a distinct sense that merely to observe that there is a possibility of fewer than 28 episodes over 2012 / 2013 was to be accused of having a sense of entitlement. And to express any disappointment about it was an even worse crime.

Perhaps she should concentrate on challenging people that actually post those sort of things rather than having digs at people who have made fairly balanced and reasonable comments on the topic then?

[sandydune]

Originally Posted by Granny McSmith

Usual year's output = 14 episodes (13 week series + 1 Christmas Special)

Over 2 years, this = 28 episodes

This year's output = 6 episodes.

Next year there will be 22 episodes, then. 7 after Christmas and 15 later in the year?

Any less than that will mean fewer episodes, of course.

I just hope Moffat leaves himself time to make another Sherlock series with all that work!

When you think of it like that, that is a whole lotta writing to do.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

Perhaps she should concentrate on challenging people that actually post those sort of things rather than having digs at people who have made fairly balanced and reasonable comments on the topic then?

Yes. I think Granny has already apologised for that - I must say I thought her "jumped on" quip was a joke - but it misfired a little.

[Granny McSmith]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

Yes. I think Granny has already apologised for that - I must say I thought her "jumped on" quip was a joke - but it misfired a little.

Of course it was a joke!

At least you don't take me too seriously, nebo!

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by DS9

I deny it. Probably means "likely to happen" or "most likely to be true" and without any kind of direct evidence to support the assertion we're getting less episodes I don't see how it can be likely.

What I don't like is people moaning about us getting less episodes when we might not be. More than anything I want the same number of episodes so I can say "see that's what you get when you think you know it all."

You don't need direct evidence to believe something is likely. One can use the clues offered and come to a conclusion. Last year people who thought it likely that fewer than 14 episodes would be aired in 2012 were told they didn't have direct evidence. However they turned out to be correct. (the clue in that case was the BBC saying so themselves however not even this was sufficient for some of the Happiness Patrol).

The clue that there is a strong possibility of fewer than 28 episodes over 2012 / 2013 is Moffat simply saying there will be "more" episodes and that Matt will be in them all. It is not unreasonable to think it unlikely he means "the 14 already announced plus a further 14".

Another clue is this hour long / extra length / blockbuster style announcement - a clue thdt this may be something of a consolation for fewer.

So of course we might all be delighted - let's hope so. But its not true to say we haven't been given clues.

Please note i have not complained. just observed.

[alias alias]

Why did they split last series and then not 7 in the same way, was it ever really about the Olympics? Has production some how fallen behind to stop them airing all eps over summer?

I'm really disappointed not to get at least 6 eps starting from Easter.

[Mystical123]

Originally Posted by alias alias

Why did they split last series and then not 7 in the same way, was it ever really about the Olympics? Has production some how fallen behind to stop them airing all eps over summer?

I'm really disappointed not to get at least 6 eps starting from Easter.

Production hasn't fallen behind, it was planned to start in February and it did.

I don't think it's ever been about the Olympics, it's about sorting out the production schedule to work for whatever plans are afoot for the 50th anniversary...

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by alias alias

Why did they split last series and then not 7 in the same way, was it ever really about the Olympics? Has production some how fallen behind to stop them airing all eps over summer?

I'm really disappointed not to get at least 6 eps starting from Easter.

As mystical said, the production schedule is going to the plan they devised in 2011. Apparantly they knocked around a few ideas and decided to delay filming until it was too late to have episodes ready on the first half of the year.

.They seem to have split the series last year to spread production costs (eg post filming work) after going over budget earlier. It is thought similar issues remained, so it is possible this year they couldn't play the same trick and had to push out the whole thing.

Others think other reasons are the cause. There's no direct source for the budget rumours. But if so its just one of those things. Doctor Who is a bit pricey and the last couple of years have looked pretty expensive (and great)

What we're all hoping is that a small sacrifice this year will help them put together a lovely fifieth anniversary.

[DS9]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

You don't need direct evidence to believe something is likely. One can use the clues offered and come to a conclusion. Last year people who thought it likely that fewer than 14 episodes would be aired in 2012 were told they didn't have direct evidence. However they turned out to be correct. (the clue in that case was the BBC saying so themselves however not even this was sufficient for some of the Happiness Patrol).

The clue that there is a strong possibility of fewer than 28 episodes over 2012 / 2013 is Moffat simply saying there will be "more" episodes and that Matt will be in them all. It is not unreasonable to think it unlikely he means "the 14 already announced plus a further 14".

Another clue is this hour long / extra length / blockbuster style announcement - a clue thdt this may be something of a consolation for fewer.

So of course we might all be delighted - let's hope so. But its not true to say we haven't been given clues.

Please note i have not complained. just observed.

There's no direct evidence and no clues either.

It's assumption. All assumption. Moffat's words mean nothing other than what they plainly mean. We're getting a 14 episode season in 2012/13 plus additional episodes later in 2013. There no clues between the lines, no hidden subtext. All the fan theory that comes from the Moff's words is all assumption.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by DS9

There's no direct evidence and no clues either.

It's assumption. All assumption. Moffat's words mean nothing other than what they plainly mean. We're getting a 14 episode season in 2012/13 plus additional episodes later in 2013. There no clues between the lines, no hidden subtext. All the fan theory that comes from the Moff's words is all assumption.

It's not "assumption" (ie taken to be true without proof), it's a guess (note my use of words such as "likely" and "unlikely"). A guess based on several things, Moffat's words included. Nobody is saying they know for sure what is happening or exactly why. I don't know why some people are allowed to get away with guesses (it's simply about the 50th) and others aren't (the budget and production issues may be involved).

It's actually a little amusing that you lambast me for making an assumption, and then go on to boldly state that there is never anything to read between the lines in Moffat's words and that they are always the plain speaking whole story. That is a huge assumption on your part. At least I acknowledge I'm guessing. Part of Moffat's job is to spin positivity about the show. Doesn't make him evil, but sensible grown ups are allowed to perhaps take some things with a pinch of salt.

I'm also at a loss as to why some people are so aghast about discussions taking place on discussion forums.

[DS9]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

It's not "assumption" (ie taken to be true without proof), it's a guess (note my use of words such as "likely" and "unlikely"). A guess based on several things, Moffat's words included. Nobody is saying they know for sure what is happening or exactly why. I don't know why some people are allowed to get away with guesses (it's simply about the 50th) and others aren't (the budget and production issues may be involved).

It's actually a little amusing that you lambast me for making an assumption, and then go on to boldly state that there is never anything to read between the lines in Moffat's words and that they are always the plain speaking whole story. That is a huge assumption on your part. At least I acknowledge I'm guessing. Part of Moffat's job is to spin positivity about the show. Doesn't make him evil, but sensible grown ups are allowed to perhaps take some things with a pinch of salt.

I'm also at a loss as to why some people are so aghast about discussions taking place on discussion forums.

Fair enough if you're only guessing and admit it. But not everyone else is. A few too many people are taking their own guesses to be hard fact.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by DS9

Fair enough if you're only guessing and admit it. But not everyone else is. A few too many people are taking their own guesses to be hard fact.

No worries. I usually assume most people to just be stating opinions or guesses anyway, unless they actually say "i know for a fact" or something similar. I try to couch things with wriggle room precisely because I'm just a fan with a keyboard. As are most round here.

I have noticed that on this topic people expressing even the mildest doubt that fewer than the usual number of episodes will be made, or expressing any disappointment about the lack of episodes until the latter end of this year are labelled "entitlement" cry babies. (ie as if they are like those ridiculous ianto campaign people). Which is a little unfair.

Also, people who tend to interprete some things they've heard as indication of budgeting issues are thought to be stridently claiming "hard facts" whereas those who attribute other causes are all lovely optimists who can say whatever they like without query.

It seems to me that there are more accusations of these things then actual incidents of it.

Right in the first post we've got Moffat saying that the episodes we don't know about are "top secret". It's not likely that he means he is making 14 episodes (or anything like) under top secret conditions. It is not silly for someone to guess that he's referring to a smaller number. Three episodes maybe? Maybe not. It's just a discussion point. Moffat may, of course, simply mean that the existence of a commission for a full 2013 series on top of what we know about is currently top secret and its public announcement will come later. People are free to keep that hope alive for themselves if they wish.

So...my guess: The 14 we know about. Some anniversary special episodes in 2013. After which the Doctor regenerates and they start making series 8 for broadcast in 2014.

I am expecting the "series 7 plus specials" to be extra length and things (eg carnival of Daleks) and they'll hope this is seen as compensation for fewer episodes. It might be. we have to wait and see. I'm sure Moffat et al are doing everything they can to make 2013 special.

[sepmix]

Originally Posted by roland rat

I recon
6 episodes Sept - Oct 2012
xmass episode
7 episodes April - May 2013

Break for Sport...Olympic games, tennis, Euro 2012football

10 episodes Sept - Nov 2013
50th Annversary Episode 13 Nov

Also, Nov 23rd not 13th.

[Eaglestriker]

Former Doctors unite to combat an ever-present menace.