[doom&gloom]

Originally Posted by Glowbot

all I heard was "troll troll troll, troll troll lesbians, troll troll troll."

Then I suggest you get a hearing test.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Glowbot

would you count the bible as an external force? or their own interpretation of it?

I would but if you think about it anyway, there are a lot of reasons other than prejudice someone would want to be straight rather than gay.

I would count the way some churches use the Bible as an external force. My religious group has no issue with homosexuality and is very supportive of gay people.

What reasons can you think of?

[BRG]

I looked into the group responsible for booking these adverts (the Core Issues Trust) and they appear to be a reprehensible and small minded bunch of homophobes but interestingly Ben Summerskill, chief executive of Stonewall doesn't agree with the banning of the ads because he believes in freedom of speech. I'm inclined to agree with him on that score, publish and be damned! I'd prefer groups like Core Issues Trust to be out there and known about so people can see them for what they are.

Conversely they may have done exactly that by making this into a story that wouldn't have otherwise been known about by banning it. Now I'm not sure if the ban was a good idea or not!

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Middleotroad

I have, they didn't talk about it, but were very distressed. Problems were eventually solved via struggling through/ NHS counciling.

Does anyone know if Stonewall offers help in this matter; because if they have no policies on it, there's a potential gap in the market, so to speak, for Christian groups like this one to try to fill.

I am not sure about Stonewall, but there are plenty of other LGBT organisations who offer counselling services.

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

I would count the way some churches use the Bible as an external force. My religious group has no issue with homosexuality and is very supportive of gay people.

What reasons can you think of?

to have a kid with someone you love, thats the main one. plus gay sex is kind of not how people were designed.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Glowbot

to have a kid with someone you love, thats the main one. plus gay sex is kind of not how people were designed.

But if you are gay, how can you love someone of the opposite sex? You could be bisexual of course, but then you wouldn't need to do anything about your sexuality because you could already love someone of the opposite sex.

As for 'being designed' - if you are attracted to someone of the same sex you work with what you have (to be blunt), and get pleasure from that. Luckily there is plenty of pleasure to be had.

[37 Years]

Originally Posted by stoatie

I would imagine so, yes, what with being gay not being a choice an' all.

That doesn't change the fact that some gay people wish that they were straight.

Not all gay people are 'out and proud' and many don't want to be.

It may not suit the PR machine of the gay community that there are some people that feel that way, but it doesn't stop them from existing.

I don't know much about Core Issues other than what I've just read on their homepage which is:

"It respects the rights of individuals who identify as 'gay' who do not seek change."

They are not forcing anyone, so where's the problem ?

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

But if you are gay, how can you love someone of the opposite sex? You could be bisexual of course, but then you wouldn't need to do anything about your sexuality because you could already love someone of the opposite sex.

As for 'being designed' - if you are attracted to someone of the same sex you work with what you have (to be blunt), and get pleasure from that. Luckily there is plenty of pleasure to be had.

yes but its a lot easier to have sex with a vagina and a penis. you dont have to make do with alternatives.

what do you mean how could you love someone of the opposite sex? we were talking about the merits of gay vs straight.

[ninjahandfriend]

You know, sometimes I feel like the only gay not in a permanent state of outrage in the village.

[Middleotroad]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

I find the 'whole get over it' thing, a bit like 'in your face', with hand gesture. I don't have a issue with people that are gay, however I wish they would stop telling me to get over it, like its an order. If I did have a problem, so what its a free country.

"They" are one organisation, with a billboard; "they" don't speak for every gay person out there.

Originally Posted by jesaya

I am not sure about Stonewall, but there are plenty of other LGBT organisations who offer counselling services.

"Some people are gay, get over it" may be aimed a homophobic straights, fair enough, but from my experience, I sometimes feel (however wrongly) it is aimed at gays too, the sort I seem to be quite good at meeting. "You're gay. Get over it".

I wonder if these counseling services offer the advice: try to discover your inner bisexual, it might take years, but there just may be the right person of the opposite sex out there for you. That for a few people would the right advice. I wonder if these LGBT services would frown on such advice.

P.S. This "Core" group still sound frightful.

[Joni M]

Originally Posted by ninjahandfriend

You know, sometimes I feel like the only gay not in a permanent state of outrage in the village.

My mate's deaf and gay, his leaving do beer mats were 'the only deaf in the village'

We thought it was effin hilarious, he didn't laugh so heartily




Only cos we superimosed his face onto Daffyd's.... Little Britain? Not sure if you get that your neck of the woods Ninj, but google... it's funny


^^^^ Why do I have to over-bleedin'-explain?, bloody DS has me paranoid!

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Glowbot

yes but its a lot easier to have sex with a vagina and a penis. you dont have to make do with alternatives.

what do you mean how could you love someone of the opposite sex? we were talking about the merits of gay vs straight.

How is it 'easier' - it's been a while, but I actually found it rather hard work and a lot less satisfying than the alternatives

You said someone might want to be straight so they could have babies with someone they love... but as they are gay they couldn't be in love with someone of the opposite sex. Or are you talking about a theoretical person they might meet in the future and fall in love with now that they are all nice and straight? Isn't it just easier to adopt or get out the turkey baster?

[SULLA]

The desperate Ken LIvingstone still finds time to criticise Boris

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

How is it 'easier' - it's been a while, but I actually found it rather hard work and a lot less satisfying than the alternatives

You said someone might want to be straight so they could have babies with someone they love... but as they are gay they couldn't be in love with someone of the opposite sex. Or are you talking about a theoretical person they might meet in the future and fall in love with now that they are all nice and straight? Isn't it just easier to adopt or get out the turkey baster?

well you have to buy things like dildos if you are a girl, and guys have to buy lube and if guys do anal too much it wears out their a-holes.

I was talking theoretically yes. This person would be changing from gay to straight.

And no it's far easier to just have a baby than adopt one or find a sperm donor!

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Middleotroad

"They" are one organisation, with a billboard; "they" don't speak for every gay person out there.



"Some people are gay, get over it" may be aimed a homophobic straights, fair enough, but from my experience, I sometimes feel (however wrongly) it is aimed at gays too, the sort I seem to be quite good at meeting. "You're gay. Get over it".

I wonder if these counseling services offer the advice: try to discover your inner bisexual, it might take years, but there just may be the right person of the opposite sex out there for you. That for a few people would the right advice. I wonder if these LGBT services would frown on such advice.

P.S. This "Core" group still sound frightful.

In my experience, LGBT counselling services do what any good counselling service does... help you explore what you feel and help you to decide for yourself. I wouldn't want anyone to be unhappy and if there are genuinely people who want to be straight then they need to get some proper counselling from qualified people.

However the evidence is that sexuality is fixed early in life and trying to force a change can be harmful - groups like the Core use techniques that are considered to be dangerous by organisations like the UK Council for Psychotherapy, which is why they put this statement out in January.

http://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/article1471.html

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by Glowbot

well you have to buy things like dildos if you are a girl, and guys have to buy lube and if guys do anal too much it wears out their a-holes.

I was talking theoretically yes. This person would be changing from gay to straight.

And no it's far easier to just have a baby than adopt one or find a sperm donor!

Actually you don't have to buy a dildo if you are a girl as you have perfectly adequate appendages attached to your arms. Even should you choose to go the 'dildo route' at least you get to choose the right size and shape that works best for you... and in a range of delightful colours.

And I believe that anal sex isn't compulsory for gay men either - many seem to have fulfilling sex lives without the need for lube

Actually finding a sperm donor is quite easy... and Tesco's do a value range turkey baster that is quite adequate. Certainly a lot easier than going through months of 'therapy' from the people at Core.

[Glowbot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

Actually you don't have to buy a dildo if you are a girl as you have perfectly adequate appendages attached to your arms. Even should you choose to go the 'dildo route' at least you get to choose the right size and shape that works best for you... and in a range of delightful colours.

And I believe that anal sex isn't compulsory for gay men either - many seem to have fulfilling sex lives without the need for lube

Actually finding a sperm donor is quite easy... and Tesco's do a value range turkey baster that is quite adequate. Certainly a lot easier than going through months of 'therapy' from the people at Core.

yeah buy if you are (lesbian) diddling some girl or just (guy) giving a bj then you aren't getting pleasure at the same time as them the same way you would with a penis and vagina.
Even if it is easy for some lesbian to find a donor, men cant do that, and like... they will never be the mix of you and your partner.

I don't disagree that the therepy isn't going to help anyone, but it's just the theoretical gay vs straight easiness.

[MARTYM8]

Originally Posted by doom&gloom

People are not all the same, some gay people were not born gay, some gay people were made that way because they were abused as children, for some (particularly lesbians) it was a choice.

Find me a straight man that can just decide one day he is going to be able to have proper sex with a man just by process of choice (excluding porn actors)? Yes - today I am going to be turned on by a woman yet tomorrow I am going to make personal decision to get turned on by a man. I just think that's ridiculous!

I personally believe who you are attracted to (i.e. which sex or indeed both) is an inherent animalistic instinct linked to genes or possibly hormonal effects in the womb. Its not a choice - you are or you aren't. You don't choose!

[The Wulfrunian]

Yet another reason why the church can stick their christian values right up their arse.

A few more decades and this institution will be so marginalised to be completely insignificant thankfully.

[MartinP]

Originally Posted by Judge Mental

This is not about censorship - it's about whether any organisation should be allowed to advertise something without any factual basis. Where is their evidence that homosexuality is a choice that can be altered by therapy? They are touting a treatment for a non existent disorder.

Would it be censorship if they were advertising herbal pills that claimed to cure cancer which had no possibility of a cure?

LOL, you have changed your tune rather quickly. In your OP you make no such comment. In fact what you said was that "It worries me that these sorts of views may be taking hold in this country and could be propped up by the current government push towards 're-christianising' the UK."


Oh and great demolition job by tour de force....

[Chester666666]

Originally Posted by zx50

Yeah, there are those on 'each side' that are constantly trying to outdo the other with rants and ramblings while the rest of us just relax and get on with life.

the LBGT side don't rant or ramble unlike the homophobes

[stoatie]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

How about the Muslim Council of Great britain getting in on the band wagon:

"Some people are Muslim, get over it"

I wonder how that would go down?

I doubt anyone except BNP/EDL types would really care. And, of course, they'd be the people the message was targeted at.

[Strathpeffer]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

I fully agree with Judge Mental.

Only on this issue though

I think if people want to be gay then that's a matter for them, and such advertising of this 'antigay' thing is wrong and stupid.

By all means if people want to be homosexual let them get on with it but please don't constantly ram your sexuality down the throats of the rest of us because we really don't want to know.

[Middleotroad]

Originally Posted by jesaya

In my experience, LGBT counselling services do what any good counselling service does... help you explore what you feel and help you to decide for yourself. I wouldn't want anyone to be unhappy and if there are genuinely people who want to be straight then they need to get some proper counselling from qualified people.

However the evidence is that sexuality is fixed early in life and trying to force a change can be harmful - groups like the Core use techniques that are considered to be dangerous by organisations like the UK Council for Psychotherapy, which is why they put this statement out in January.

http://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/article1471.html

Thank you jesaya. This article tells you all you need to know about why the bus adverts were banned. It's about the peddling of false information and illegitimate advice. Not about freedom of speech/ expression.

Originally Posted by jesaya

Tesco's do a value range turkey baster that is quite adequate.

Say there's a really girly girl who dreams of a princess marriage to her handsome prince in a pink castle. Or 2.4 kids, marriage, happy surburbia. Ten years later, her options are...Tesco value range turkey baster. Now some ladies would count their lucky blessings, other's would be more disappointed, to say the least. I put it to you that there will always be people who struggle with being different, no matter what sort of society we are living in.

[MartinP]

Originally Posted by Middleotroad

Thank you jesaya. This article tells you all you need to know about why the bus adverts were banned.

The adverts were not "banned". Boris in his role at TfL decided not to accept the adverts for political reasons. The ASA or any organisation has not banned them.