[Hit Em Up Style]

Be very interesting to hear how the Lib Dems view Nick Clegg in years to come.

[Tassium]

Originally Posted by David Tee

Why? Personally I think that without their influence the cuts would have been deeper, the lowest paid would not have been taken out of tax and any number of different plans (I.e. NHS) would have been structured very differently.

The Lib-Dems are a moderating influence on the Tories.

It's highly likely that a Conservative party on it's own would have really struggled to get much done. The LibDems are the enablers.


And it's only in public that Nick Clegg 'n friends cry crocodile tears about the terrible terrible Tories.

[SheepdogNo1]

Wether the Lib Dems get wiped out or not is hard to gauge, the only thing i can see is that Clegg will make Michael Portillios moment in 1997 look like a warm up act. I just dont see how Clegg himslef survives in that seat.

The Lib dems have been suckered into Cleggs desire to make a name for himself. I very much doubt Charles Kennedy who made such great strides in getting the Lib Dems looking like a proper outfit would have signed up so easily to being the tories stooges. The Lib Dems just didnt drive hard enough a bargain. Cleggs hatred of Brown clouded his judgement & so it may well come back to haunt him.

[jjne]

If the LibDems were to be wiped out, it would be a profoundly depressing day for this 'democracy'. There is a thin veneer of respectability currently -- the system just about limps along with a third 'choice' in place.

Get rid of that, and the system is exposed for the utter sham that it is.

In a sense, it could be a bloody good thing. Scotland leaves, the rest of the country left with a fundamentally broken political system, finally something might be bloody well done about it.

[David Tee]

Originally Posted by Tassium

It's highly likely that a Conservative party on it's own would have really struggled to get much done. The LibDems are the enablers.

And it's only in public that Nick Clegg 'n friends cry crocodile tears about the terrible terrible Tories.

I don't think the Conservatives could have governed without a majority.

It's highly likely that had the Lib-Dems not formed a coalition after the last election

1) the country would have been plunged into a crisis that would have made the current situation we're in a great deal worse. Brown would have limped along, heading up an emergency minority government and whatever blame the public were already heaping onto Labours shoulders would have been ratcheted up considerably.

2) another election would have been called and the only party with the funds to run another campaign would have been the Tories.

[wallster]

Why have we got all these threads kicking the Lib Dems in the past few days?

Has Labour HQ sent out an email...?

[David Tee]

Originally Posted by wallster

Why have we got all these threads kicking the Lib Dems in the past few days?

Has Labour HQ sent out an email...?

Would appear so...

[Get Den Watts]

Originally Posted by mrblank

yes something i bitterly regret

You knew the only way they were ever going to get into power was in coalition and you also knew that the party likely to be best placed to form one was the Tories. Or are you one of the Lib Dem voters who love the rush of opposition politics but hate the responsibility of government?

[jmclaugh]

Originally Posted by mrblank

hopefully no matter what changes happen the public will never forgive their act of trechery

LOL. How dare they not join your gang.

[Orri]

Originally Posted by C19th Fox

Backing the party that acheived the most votes is treachery?

Yes, if you ignore the platform you stood on in order to simply get in power. In simple terms you should go for an alliance that implements most of your platform. That means that if it had been possible to form both a Lib-Lab or Lib-Con majority then the LD's should have gone with the one that meant the majority of those that voted for them would be happy. To do otherwise simply gives the impression that your manifesto is meaningless.

[Soppyfan]

Third place parties tend to poll very low during mid-term, it'll likely pick up again when 2015 arrives.

Originally Posted by David Tee

It's highly likely that had the Lib-Dems not formed a coalition after the last election

1) the country would have been plunged into a crisis that would have made the current situation we're in a great deal worse. Brown would have limped along, heading up an emergency minority government and whatever blame the public were already heaping onto Labours shoulders would have been ratcheted up considerably.

But the Labour lefties wouldn't even care about that.

[What name??]

Originally Posted by jmclaugh

LOL. How dare they not join your gang.

I think it is more about lying and pretending to be progressive and then when in power acting in completely the opposite way to expected. They will not recover the support they have lost (from left leaning voters) simply because even if the LibDems sprout about progressive polices, being green, being the alternative to the tories in X or Y location, blah blah blah blah until now until 2015 fewer people will believe them this time - because they can be judged on their actions not just on their rhetoric. That is the downside of having a record of what you will do when you are actually in power.

[paulschapman]

Originally Posted by mrblank

although to be fair they are the living dead now.no flowers by request

Mid 80's and people were writing the Labour Party's obituary - they still came back in 1997.

[jmclaugh]

Originally Posted by What name??

I think it is more about lying and pretending to be progressive and then when in power acting in completely the opposite way to expected.

You could lodge the same accusation against any party and btw they aren't in power they are in a coalition.

[What name??]

Originally Posted by jmclaugh

You could lodge the same accusation against any party and btw they aren't in power they are in a coalition.

Yes, but would it be true to the same extent?

By the way being in a coalition and part of the government means they are in power and are helping shape and pass the policies of the current government.

[jmclaugh]

Originally Posted by What name??

Yes, but would it be true to the same extent?

By the way being in a coalition and part of the government means they are in power and are helping shape and pass the policies of the current government.

I suspect the answer to your question depends on which party you support.

Yes they are part of the government but both parties have had to compromise and do things they wouldn't have done if in government on their own. That is after all what many said would be good about coalition government until of course it results in one they don't like.

[Magnamundian]

Oh boy... where to start...

Originally Posted by Orri

Yes, if you ignore the platform you stood on in order to simply get in power.

Hmmm... didn't they stand on a platform of coalition governance, working with whichever party is the largest and a series of aspirations such as raising the tax threshold which they have actually achieved as part of the coalition government?

In simple terms you should go for an alliance that implements most of your platform.

They did.

That means that if it had been possible to form both a Lib-Lab or Lib-Con majority then the LD's should have gone with the one that meant the majority of those that voted for them would be happy.

Except the maths for a Lib-Lab coalition didn't work, you'd have to include Plaid, SNP and some of the minor Northern Irish parties to form a majority. Not to mention that the Lib Dems backed making cuts to deal with the deficit and so did the Tories. Labour only reluctantly starting making noises about cuts towards the end.

To do otherwise simply gives the impression that your manifesto is meaningless.

Very true. However I suspect you must have read the 'special red-edition' of the Lib Dem manifesto, the one with the word "Labour" across the front of it. Otherwise you would recognise some of the coalitions work to be obviously Lib Dem influenced.

[grumpy-dad1972]

I voted Lib Dem the last time around and i now look forward to there complete and utter collapse. I think it needs to happen so they can be reborn and get back to their core values.

All the arguments that technically they haven't lied, and they are curtailing the tories is part off what is wrong with the party now. Unable to own up to the fact that they have screwed over everyone that voted for them and even now refuse to stand up for what they promised and what is right.


Instead they go along with the Tory overlords and accept snivelling concessions as a victory.

Just because Nick says stand up and be proud doesn't mean you have anything to be proud off it just means you are delusional.

But come the 3rd of May when more council seats are lost there will be another reason why technically it isn't that bad.

My grandmother, 90 years old, life long supporter off the libdems now talks off them with disgust. I up to the last election was a life long suppoter but never again.
I say that with sadness because the actual grass roots off the party wants none of this, and the only way to get back to liberal core values is for the party to be wiped out of parliament and start a new with people from the grass roots.

[Sniffle774]

Originally Posted by mrblank

jumping into to bed with the wicked torys

So they had a choice to try and bring their policies to government and this passes for treachery in the eyes of some. Crikey.

[Soppyfan]

Originally Posted by Magnamundian

Except the maths for a Lib-Lab coalition didn't work, you'd have to include Plaid, SNP and some of the minor Northern Irish parties to form a majority.

That kind of rainbow coalition would not have worked, and yet some people still cannot add up well.

[The Mc]

Originally Posted by MARTYM8

Exactly.

If people can forgive Labour for starting an illegal war that led to the death of over 100,000+ Iraqi civilians

Labour did not start the war with Iraq, the USA did, the UK assisted.

You must also remember that although no WOMD were found, Sadam Hussein and his gang were gassing and killing thousands of Kurds in the northern regions of Iraq.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

[jjne]

Originally Posted by The Mc

You must also remember that although no WOMD were found, Sadam Hussein and his gang were gassing and killing thousands of Kurds in the northern regions of Iraq.

Civil matter -- none of our business.

[mrblank]

Originally Posted by Hit Em Up Style

Be very interesting to hear how the Lib Dems view Nick Clegg in years to come.

the man who placed the lib dems in the leming house at the foot of beachy head

[Styker]

Originally Posted by Lyricalis

Plenty of time for things to totally change. That's a long time in politics.

Gordon Brown was in power around 8 weeks short of 3 years and that went very quickly.

Originally Posted by MARTYM8

Exactly.

I remember at the time of the Iraq war - all those left wingers moving to the Lib Dems and saying they would never vote Labour again. Funny that - it didn't take them long to get over that.

If people can forgive Labour for starting an illegal war that led to the death of over 100,000+ Iraqi civilians maybe one day in the near future the Lib Dems will get forgiven over tuition fees and pasty taxes and recover support. Cos the British people have very short memories.

As for the death of the Lib Dems - well the Liberals have been around for nearly 200 years. In the 1950s they had less than 5 seats. They've survived far worse than this!

Errr no. People voted Labour in 2005 because they knew Blair was on his way out, even then Labour still lost a million votes in that election and lost 36 key marginal seats that the Tories built upon to be the largest party by the next election.

No way will the Libs fare the same way as Labour in 2005, they will get hammered like the Tories did in 97 but with only 57 MP's they will probably get completely wiped out!

As for your comments that they have been around a long time, well the liberal part of them was in power 100 years ago not the closet Tory orange bookers that are running the show now, a lot has changed since then you know and it will not be for the better for them.

p.s. Even around 1916 though the Libs went into coalition with the Tories I think! If that is true, then this needs to be pointed out much more.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by grumpy-dad1972

I voted Lib Dem the last time around and i now look forward to there complete and utter collapse. I think it needs to happen so they can be reborn and get back to their core values.

All the arguments that technically they haven't lied, and they are curtailing the tories is part off what is wrong with the party now. Unable to own up to the fact that they have screwed over everyone that voted for them and even now refuse to stand up for what they promised and what is right.


Instead they go along with the Tory overlords and accept snivelling concessions as a victory.

Just because Nick says stand up and be proud doesn't mean you have anything to be proud off it just means you are delusional.

But come the 3rd of May when more council seats are lost there will be another reason why technically it isn't that bad.

My grandmother, 90 years old, life long supporter off the libdems now talks off them with disgust. I up to the last election was a life long suppoter but never again.
I say that with sadness because the actual grass roots off the party wants none of this, and the only way to get back to liberal core values is for the party to be wiped out of parliament and start a new with people from the grass roots.

Great post.