Can a 3D TV convert non 3D content to 3D?

Richardcoulter · 21-04-2012, 02:40

A friend has just bought a 3D TV. Like myself, he is with Virgin Media cable. I told him that there are no 3D channels on VM, just some VOD, but that i'd read that there was to be a 3D olympics channel.

He relied that the salesman had said that the TV can make non 3D channels appear 3D itself!

I'm no expert, but I doubted this. Is this possible

evil c · 21-04-2012, 02:49

You don't say which TV it is but anyway why doesn't your friend read the user's manual?

Richardcoulter · 21-04-2012, 08:50

I don't know, but, in essence, I suppose what i'm really asking is do some/all models of 3D TV have this capability?

I haven't bothered with one as VM have no 3D linear channels, but this would make me change my mind.

I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?!

Nigel Goodwin · 21-04-2012, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcoulter

I don't know, but, in essence, I suppose what i'm really asking is do some/all models of 3D TV have this capability?

I haven't bothered with one as VM have no 3D linear channels, but this would make me change my mind.

I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?!

As far as I'm aware all 3D TV's have the ability to 'simulate' 3D, it doesn't 'convert' it - but it's not really 3D, and nothing like as good.

njp · 21-04-2012, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcoulter

I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?!

Because realtime 2D-3D conversions are pretty hopeless. The software has to try and guess (based on various clues) where objects are in relation to each other, and it often gets that wrong. It baffles me why anyone would want to watch such a thing after the first couple of minutes of novelty value have worn off.

Doing it properly takes massive amounts of computing, and lots of human intervention. Supposedly the Titanic 3D conversion is technically rather good, though since it's such an awful film I doubt I'll be confirming that myself anytime soon! That took lots of money and lots of time.

ironjade · 21-04-2012, 14:29

Some will convert, some won't. Depends on the make and model.

Richardcoulter · 21-04-2012, 22:50

Thanks for your replies- so it sounds like it is possible, but it's not very good!

I had assumed that the salesman had lied to him through ignorance or on purpose.

porkpie · 21-04-2012, 23:29

I have a Panasonic 3D tv and that has a convert mode .
Some things look ok , somethings don't look 3D at all and in all cases its not a patch on the proper 3D content.

Tell your friend to check out the Safari Adventure series on the Virgin OD service.
It looks really good in 3D.

I've seen Panasonic Bluray players with a 2D to 3D setting too .
I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses.

njp · 22-04-2012, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by porkpie

I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses.

No...

pocatello · 22-04-2012, 07:12

Real 3d conversions take millions of dollars and countless man hours, so the idea that a 3dtv can do it well on the fly is a bit laughable by default.

Robert__law · 22-04-2012, 13:07

as above 2D to 3D conversion works depending on the subject matter , its no use for landscape or some one standing in front of a wall but other thing like sport it is very good but not as good as proper 3D

I have the panasonic 3D blue-ray player , the 2D to 3D converter turns the image into frame compatible side by side and also has a depth enhancer but it will only work with a 3D TV , I find that the 2D to 3D converter built into the the TV works better

I have also using computer software procecesd 2D video to 3D SBS and played this back to my 3D TV using a ordinary DVD player !

Robert__law · 22-04-2012, 13:16

There are a number of 3D encoders avalibile on Ebay and can also be purchased from CPC for under £50

I think they are pritey cool ! you can have 3D on a 2 D set

they use 2 systems the classic red /blue anaglyphic process which gives a 4 colour image ( this recreates bairds original colour TV system) works good with HD and the second is colour code using amber /blue glasses which gives full colour image with a slight loss of ressoloution , while this is not as good as the polarised glasses its is fun I watched the Chinese space station launch in November and the 3D effect was brilliant
the box can also process SBS to a 3D TV but is only anaglyph

c4rv · 22-04-2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert__law

There are a number of 3D encoders avalibile on Ebay and can also be purchased from CPC for under £50

I think they are pritey cool ! you can have 3D on a 2 D set

they use 2 systems the classic red /blue anaglyphic process which gives a 4 colour image ( this recreates bairds original colour TV system) works good with HD and the second is colour code using amber /blue glasses which gives full colour image with a slight loss of ressoloution , while this is not as good as the polarised glasses its is fun I watched the Chinese space station launch in November and the 3D effect was brilliant
the box can also process SBS to a 3D TV but is only anaglyph

why would amber/blue result in loss of resolution ?

XxBlaKOuTZxX · 23-04-2012, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert__law

as above 2D to 3D conversion works depending on the subject matter , its no use for landscape or some one standing in front of a wall but other thing like sport it is very good but not as good as proper 3D

I have the panasonic 3D blue-ray player , the 2D to 3D converter turns the image into frame compatible side by side and also has a depth enhancer but it will only work with a 3D TV , I find that the 2D to 3D converter built into the the TV works better

I have also using computer software procecesd 2D video to 3D SBS and played this back to my 3D TV using a ordinary DVD player !

I have done something similar using DVDFab. I converted some of my 2D BD films to 3D and watched them via USB and it seems to work ok but it can take a while to convert them though.

Robert__law · 23-04-2012, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4rv

why would amber/blue result in loss of resolution ?

the image is darker than what you get with the red /blue glasses , I sent away for another pair of glasses which where better than what came with the unit , it seemed to work better for HD using the red blue glasses and the amber /blue seemed better with SD ! ( you choose which system with the remote) the box also can send SBS to a 3D TV but unfortunately it dues not use polarised glasses , I am not sure if it works with the shutter glasses as my 3D TV 's are passive

gemma-the-husky · 24-04-2012, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by porkpie

I have a Panasonic 3D tv and that has a convert mode .
Some things look ok , somethings don't look 3D at all and in all cases its not a patch on the proper 3D content.

Tell your friend to check out the Safari Adventure series on the Virgin OD service.
It looks really good in 3D.

I've seen Panasonic Bluray players with a 2D to 3D setting too .
I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses.

out of interest, i have a panasonic 3d bluray player, but no 3d tv. it refuses to go into 3d mode, if you do not attach a 3d tv

ironjade · 24-04-2012, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky

out of interest, i have a panasonic 3d bluray player, but no 3d tv. it refuses to go into 3d mode, if you do not attach a 3d tv

Also in passing, Sky 3D won't give you even a 2D picture unless it detects a 3D tv.

Connecting it to a 2D tv just gives the "call Sky" page.

Nigel Goodwin · 24-04-2012, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironjade

Also in passing, Sky 3D won't give you even a 2D picture unless it detects a 3D tv.

Connecting it to a 2D tv just gives the "call Sky" page.

That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not.

ironjade · 24-04-2012, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not.

I'm sure you're right but after adding it but before the 3D tv arrived I connected it just out of curiosity and it still gave me the warning, albeit in sbs format.

Richardcoulter · 24-04-2012, 16:43

Now I know that TV's can simulate 3D channels, i'm going to get one.

What do you experts all think of this TV for the price?

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...0#post57841730

anthpieface · 24-04-2012, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcoulter

Now I know that TV's can simulate 3D channels, i'm going to get one.

What do you experts all think of this TV for the price?

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...0#post57841730

Just word of advice choose carefully when picking a 3DTV, The TV I brought was a samsung PS51D550 active 3DTV which uses the expensive shutter glasses. Which flicker and sometimes give me a headache and to tell the truth other members of my family feel the same when viewing 3D

If I had the chance to buy again I would went for a passive 3DTV which uses the same type of glasses you use in the cinima with the flickring But I whould try before you buy

Roush · 24-04-2012, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not.

3D capability is communicated via the E-EDID data exchange whenever a new HDMI connection is made, so a source device will indeed be aware of whether or not a display is 3D capable.

Also, it is laid out in the HDMI specifications that it is the source device's responsibility to output a signal that the display is capable of receiving, so a 3D capable source should indeed refuse to display native 3D modes if the display cannot accept them. (This point is more relevant to full screen 3D modes than SBS ones, which were of course intentionally designed to be backwards compatible with older source equipment and existing broadcast standards.)

ironjade · 24-04-2012, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roush

3D capability is communicated via the E-EDID data exchange whenever a new HDMI connection is made, so a source device will indeed be aware of whether or not a display is 3D capable.

Also, it is laid out in the HDMI specifications that it is the source device's responsibility to output a signal that the display is capable of receiving, so a 3D capable source should indeed refuse to display native 3D modes if the display cannot accept them. (This point is more relevant to full screen 3D modes than SBS ones, which were of course intentionally designed to be backwards compatible with older source equipment and existing broadcast standards.)

So I'm not imagining things. Good to know.

porkpie · 24-04-2012, 22:43

When I first got my 3D tv the PS3 would not display 3D correctly.
Had to change to a newer HDMI cable .

The Sharp tv shown above is ok but at £60 per pair of glasses you won't be enjoying 3D with lots of friends or family.

The passive glasses are dirt cheap and I'm not sure the results from the more expensive glasses would justify the huge difference in cost

Richardcoulter · 25-04-2012, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthpieface

Just word of advice choose carefully when picking a 3DTV, The TV I brought was a samsung PS51D550 active 3DTV which uses the expensive shutter glasses. Which flicker and sometimes give me a headache and to tell the truth other members of my family feel the same when viewing 3D

If I had the chance to buy again I would went for a passive 3DTV which uses the same type of glasses you use in the cinima with the flickring But I whould try before you buy

Quote:

Originally Posted by porkpie

When I first got my 3D tv the PS3 would not display 3D correctly.
Had to change to a newer HDMI cable .

The Sharp tv shown above is ok but at £60 per pair of glasses you won't be enjoying 3D with lots of friends or family.

The passive glasses are dirt cheap and I'm not sure the results from the more expensive glasses would justify the huge difference in cost

Thanks everybody for your replies.

I wasn't even aware that there were "shutter" or "passive" glasses, I thought that they were all the same

Also it says that the Internet Connection is via a WiFi dongle- what does mean? Anybody?

Thanks.

21-04-2012, 02:40	#1
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	Can a 3D TV convert non 3D content to 3D? A friend has just bought a 3D TV. Like myself, he is with Virgin Media cable. I told him that there are no 3D channels on VM, just some VOD, but that i'd read that there was to be a 3D olympics channel. He relied that the salesman had said that the TV can make non 3D channels appear 3D itself! I'm no expert, but I doubted this. Is this possible

21-04-2012, 02:49	#2
evil c Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wirral Peninsula Posts: 4,777	You don't say which TV it is but anyway why doesn't your friend read the user's manual?

21-04-2012, 08:50	#3
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	I don't know, but, in essence, I suppose what i'm really asking is do some/all models of 3D TV have this capability? I haven't bothered with one as VM have no 3D linear channels, but this would make me change my mind. I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?!

21-04-2012, 09:14	#4
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by Richardcoulter I don't know, but, in essence, I suppose what i'm really asking is do some/all models of 3D TV have this capability? I haven't bothered with one as VM have no 3D linear channels, but this would make me change my mind. I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?! As far as I'm aware all 3D TV's have the ability to 'simulate' 3D, it doesn't 'convert' it - but it's not really 3D, and nothing like as good.

21-04-2012, 09:24	#5
njp Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21,646	Quote: Originally Posted by Richardcoulter I can't see it being true though, as why would TV channels bother with 3D channels at all?! Because realtime 2D-3D conversions are pretty hopeless. The software has to try and guess (based on various clues) where objects are in relation to each other, and it often gets that wrong. It baffles me why anyone would want to watch such a thing after the first couple of minutes of novelty value have worn off. Doing it properly takes massive amounts of computing, and lots of human intervention. Supposedly the Titanic 3D conversion is technically rather good, though since it's such an awful film I doubt I'll be confirming that myself anytime soon! That took lots of money and lots of time.

21-04-2012, 14:29	#6
ironjade Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London Posts: 8,651	Some will convert, some won't. Depends on the make and model.

21-04-2012, 22:50	#7
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	Thanks for your replies- so it sounds like it is possible, but it's not very good! I had assumed that the salesman had lied to him through ignorance or on purpose.

21-04-2012, 23:29	#8
porkpie Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,484	I have a Panasonic 3D tv and that has a convert mode . Some things look ok , somethings don't look 3D at all and in all cases its not a patch on the proper 3D content. Tell your friend to check out the Safari Adventure series on the Virgin OD service. It looks really good in 3D. I've seen Panasonic Bluray players with a 2D to 3D setting too . I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses.

22-04-2012, 00:19	#9
njp Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21,646	Quote: Originally Posted by porkpie I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses. No...

22-04-2012, 07:12	#10
pocatello Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,622	Real 3d conversions take millions of dollars and countless man hours, so the idea that a 3dtv can do it well on the fly is a bit laughable by default.

22-04-2012, 13:07	#11
Robert__law Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: DUNDEE Posts: 1,318	as above 2D to 3D conversion works depending on the subject matter , its no use for landscape or some one standing in front of a wall but other thing like sport it is very good but not as good as proper 3D I have the panasonic 3D blue-ray player , the 2D to 3D converter turns the image into frame compatible side by side and also has a depth enhancer but it will only work with a 3D TV , I find that the 2D to 3D converter built into the the TV works better I have also using computer software procecesd 2D video to 3D SBS and played this back to my 3D TV using a ordinary DVD player !

22-04-2012, 13:16	#12
Robert__law Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: DUNDEE Posts: 1,318	There are a number of 3D encoders avalibile on Ebay and can also be purchased from CPC for under £50 I think they are pritey cool ! you can have 3D on a 2 D set they use 2 systems the classic red /blue anaglyphic process which gives a 4 colour image ( this recreates bairds original colour TV system) works good with HD and the second is colour code using amber /blue glasses which gives full colour image with a slight loss of ressoloution , while this is not as good as the polarised glasses its is fun I watched the Chinese space station launch in November and the 3D effect was brilliant the box can also process SBS to a 3D TV but is only anaglyph

22-04-2012, 15:39	#13
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert__law There are a number of 3D encoders avalibile on Ebay and can also be purchased from CPC for under £50 I think they are pritey cool ! you can have 3D on a 2 D set they use 2 systems the classic red /blue anaglyphic process which gives a 4 colour image ( this recreates bairds original colour TV system) works good with HD and the second is colour code using amber /blue glasses which gives full colour image with a slight loss of ressoloution , while this is not as good as the polarised glasses its is fun I watched the Chinese space station launch in November and the 3D effect was brilliant the box can also process SBS to a 3D TV but is only anaglyph why would amber/blue result in loss of resolution ?

23-04-2012, 07:43	#14
XxBlaKOuTZxX Forum Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Edinburgh / Scotland Posts: 2,773	Quote: Originally Posted by Robert__law as above 2D to 3D conversion works depending on the subject matter , its no use for landscape or some one standing in front of a wall but other thing like sport it is very good but not as good as proper 3D I have the panasonic 3D blue-ray player , the 2D to 3D converter turns the image into frame compatible side by side and also has a depth enhancer but it will only work with a 3D TV , I find that the 2D to 3D converter built into the the TV works better I have also using computer software procecesd 2D video to 3D SBS and played this back to my 3D TV using a ordinary DVD player ! I have done something similar using DVDFab. I converted some of my 2D BD films to 3D and watched them via USB and it seems to work ok but it can take a while to convert them though.

23-04-2012, 23:44	#15
Robert__law Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: DUNDEE Posts: 1,318	Quote: Originally Posted by c4rv why would amber/blue result in loss of resolution ? the image is darker than what you get with the red /blue glasses , I sent away for another pair of glasses which where better than what came with the unit , it seemed to work better for HD using the red blue glasses and the amber /blue seemed better with SD ! ( you choose which system with the remote) the box also can send SBS to a 3D TV but unfortunately it dues not use polarised glasses , I am not sure if it works with the shutter glasses as my 3D TV 's are passive

24-04-2012, 00:36	#16
gemma-the-husky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17,858	Quote: Originally Posted by porkpie I have a Panasonic 3D tv and that has a convert mode . Some things look ok , somethings don't look 3D at all and in all cases its not a patch on the proper 3D content. Tell your friend to check out the Safari Adventure series on the Virgin OD service. It looks really good in 3D. I've seen Panasonic Bluray players with a 2D to 3D setting too . I did wonder if its the player doing the converting , presumably playing back the 2 images , would you be able to watch in 3D on a non 3D set provided you had access to the glasses. out of interest, i have a panasonic 3d bluray player, but no 3d tv. it refuses to go into 3d mode, if you do not attach a 3d tv

24-04-2012, 09:37	#17
ironjade Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London Posts: 8,651	Quote: Originally Posted by gemma-the-husky out of interest, i have a panasonic 3d bluray player, but no 3d tv. it refuses to go into 3d mode, if you do not attach a 3d tv Also in passing, Sky 3D won't give you even a 2D picture unless it detects a 3D tv. Connecting it to a 2D tv just gives the "call Sky" page.

24-04-2012, 09:48	#18
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	Quote: Originally Posted by ironjade Also in passing, Sky 3D won't give you even a 2D picture unless it detects a 3D tv. Connecting it to a 2D tv just gives the "call Sky" page. That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not.

24-04-2012, 11:39	#19
ironjade Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London Posts: 8,651	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not. I'm sure you're right but after adding it but before the 3D tv arrived I connected it just out of curiosity and it still gave me the warning, albeit in sbs format.

24-04-2012, 16:43	#20
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	Now I know that TV's can simulate 3D channels, i'm going to get one. What do you experts all think of this TV for the price? http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...0#post57841730

24-04-2012, 20:16	#21
anthpieface Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 951	Quote: Originally Posted by Richardcoulter Now I know that TV's can simulate 3D channels, i'm going to get one. What do you experts all think of this TV for the price? http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...0#post57841730 Just word of advice choose carefully when picking a 3DTV, The TV I brought was a samsung PS51D550 active 3DTV which uses the expensive shutter glasses. Which flicker and sometimes give me a headache and to tell the truth other members of my family feel the same when viewing 3D If I had the chance to buy again I would went for a passive 3DTV which uses the same type of glasses you use in the cinima with the flickring But I whould try before you buy

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Can a 3D TV convert non 3D content to 3D?

24-04-2012, 22:00	#22
Roush Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 2,938	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin That's not the reason, you simply need to ring Sky in order to have 3D added to your subscription - there's no CEC on a Sky box, so it has no idea if it's connected to a 3D TV or not. 3D capability is communicated via the E-EDID data exchange whenever a new HDMI connection is made, so a source device will indeed be aware of whether or not a display is 3D capable. Also, it is laid out in the HDMI specifications that it is the source device's responsibility to output a signal that the display is capable of receiving, so a 3D capable source should indeed refuse to display native 3D modes if the display cannot accept them. (This point is more relevant to full screen 3D modes than SBS ones, which were of course intentionally designed to be backwards compatible with older source equipment and existing broadcast standards.)

24-04-2012, 22:17	#23
ironjade Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London Posts: 8,651	Quote: Originally Posted by Roush 3D capability is communicated via the E-EDID data exchange whenever a new HDMI connection is made, so a source device will indeed be aware of whether or not a display is 3D capable. Also, it is laid out in the HDMI specifications that it is the source device's responsibility to output a signal that the display is capable of receiving, so a 3D capable source should indeed refuse to display native 3D modes if the display cannot accept them. (This point is more relevant to full screen 3D modes than SBS ones, which were of course intentionally designed to be backwards compatible with older source equipment and existing broadcast standards.) So I'm not imagining things. Good to know.

24-04-2012, 22:43	#24
porkpie Inactive Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,484	When I first got my 3D tv the PS3 would not display 3D correctly. Had to change to a newer HDMI cable . The Sharp tv shown above is ok but at £60 per pair of glasses you won't be enjoying 3D with lots of friends or family. The passive glasses are dirt cheap and I'm not sure the results from the more expensive glasses would justify the huge difference in cost

25-04-2012, 13:05	#25
Richardcoulter Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,703	Quote: Originally Posted by anthpieface Just word of advice choose carefully when picking a 3DTV, The TV I brought was a samsung PS51D550 active 3DTV which uses the expensive shutter glasses. Which flicker and sometimes give me a headache and to tell the truth other members of my family feel the same when viewing 3D If I had the chance to buy again I would went for a passive 3DTV which uses the same type of glasses you use in the cinima with the flickring But I whould try before you buy Quote: Originally Posted by porkpie When I first got my 3D tv the PS3 would not display 3D correctly. Had to change to a newer HDMI cable . The Sharp tv shown above is ok but at £60 per pair of glasses you won't be enjoying 3D with lots of friends or family. The passive glasses are dirt cheap and I'm not sure the results from the more expensive glasses would justify the huge difference in cost Thanks everybody for your replies. I wasn't even aware that there were "shutter" or "passive" glasses, I thought that they were all the same Also it says that the Internet Connection is via a WiFi dongle- what does mean? Anybody? Thanks.