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Social Cleansing begins - by one of London's POOREST boroughs


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Old 24-04-2012, 18:56
Auld Snody
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Would Scotland take the overload perchance?
They are welcome, if government policies increased employment opportunities by supporting investment so that more jobs were created
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Old 24-04-2012, 18:57
Ethel_Fred
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So why not spread new arrivals around the country, are there enough jobs outside the south east?
No.
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Old 24-04-2012, 18:58
Meilie
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Would Scotland take the overload perchance?
Scotland is already packed. Unless you fancy living on the slopes of Ben Nevis.

UK at night

UK topography
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:00
GreatGodPan
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The fact that you think they're bizarre in more an indictment of you and your neo-liberal sheeple colleagues than it is me.
Why are you accusing me of being Right wing?

I don't think even my fiercest opponents on here would accuse me of that!
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:01
makara80
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They seem a bit insular in Stoke - "Lock the gates quick" "NOT IN OUT BACK YARD" etc. - wonder what the response would be if London prevented people from Stoke moving there in search of work.
You mean people from Stoke are raising objections to potentially significant numbers of people relocating to their area and competing for finite job vacancies with the local populace?

Yep, it's an utter mystery as to why they'd object to that alright.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:04
Judge Mental
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There's so much contradiction in this post.

Countries no longer have secure borders, people can easily move around and we had better get used to it.

People can't be expected to move a relatively short distance within a country to where there are resources for them to live?


As for "social cleansing", might have some sympathy with that view if the left in this country hadn't facilitated it happening in other countries by accepting their poor into this country.
But that's the point isn't it - there aren't the resources in Stoke for them to live. There is a shortage of housing for Stoke's own residents - and an influx of high need families will place untold strain on other resources such as school, social services and so on.

I heard that Newham had written to every housing association in the country asking if they could offload their housing waiting list - I doubt very much they'll get any takers - where on earth in this country do we have a surplus of social housing?
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:05
jassi
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Maybe Newham should make some enquires in Poland. There may be some housing associations there, that can help.
That's certainly a novel idea. I wonder what the Poles would think about it
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:11
OLD HIPPY GUY
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You might as well say ... How long before they decide that there is no work to be had around here so they had better move to where there is some.
100% correct, Except for the part where you totally miss the point, which is 100% of what you just did,
No one is even suggesting people shouldn't be free to move to look for work,
But that's a 'tad' different to forcing someone to move, or it just me who sees that?


In other words she had to stop work because of illness rather than being fit and unemployed because there was no work, and no prospect of work.
Again a point totally missed, This proposal is aimed at people claiming housing benefit, and not 'only' the unemployed, disabled people, dying people, even working but low paid people get housing benefit,


I was made redundant in December 2006, after my job was effectively moved down to the West country, and I'm just counting the days until I am in just such a position.

There doesn't seem to that many jobs around my neck of the woods. I'll probably end up part time stacking shelves in a shop, unless they've given all the jobs to people forced off IB or whatever, or something else for which I have no experience.

If it wasn't for family commitments I might well have to relocate.

Despite living here all my life I have no friends around here and my remaining family are all past retirement age.
I have been made redundant so many times I've honestly lost count, But then I am 59 and a survivour of Thatchers war on the working class,
Stacking shelves? I've done jobs that make shelf stacking seem a massive skill improvement, and despite family commitments I HAVE moved out of my home city 3 times, (once over to the Irish republic for 6 years)

But then I'm FROM Stoke,
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:17
MARTYM8
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But that's the point isn't it - there aren't the resources in Stoke for them to live. There is a shortage of housing for Stoke's own residents - and an influx of high need families will place untold strain on other resources such as school, social services and so on.

I heard that Newham had written to every housing association in the country asking if they could offload their housing waiting list - I doubt very much they'll get any takers - where on earth in this country do we have a surplus of social housing?

And Newham doesn't face those challenges of course - it has one of the highest birth rates in the country and has seen its population grow massively due to migration. And it has a far bigger housing waiting list per head than Stoke - and rents/house prices substantially higher by several times,

Why should London councils/Londoners have to bear most/all of the burden/costs of population growth and migration?

You could have made the same arguments about Stoke as people in Barking and Dagenham were making 10 years ago about people moving in from Newham.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:22
jassi
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And Newham doesn't face those challenges of course - it has one of the highest birth rates in the country and has seen its population grow massively due to migration. And it has a far bigger housing waiting list per head than Stoke - and rents/house prices substantially higher by several times,

Why should London councils/Londoners have to bear most/all of the burden/costs of population growth and migration?

You could have made the same arguments about Stoke as people in Barking and Dagenham were making 10 years ago about people moving in from Newham.
Perhaps the new Mayor, whoever he might be, should introduce some visa system to control the number of people flocking to London.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:24
OLD HIPPY GUY
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And Newham doesn't face those challenges of course - it has one of the highest birth rates in the country and has seen its population grow massively due to migration. And it has a far bigger housing waiting list per head than Stoke - and rents/house prices substantially higher by several times,

Why should London councils/Londoners have to bear most/all of the burden/costs of population growth and migration?

You could have made the same arguments about Stoke as people in Barking and Dagenham were making 10 years ago about people moving in from Newham.
Were they being forced to move? either by physical force of by being faced with living on the street?
Which would be the end result of cutting their benefit to the point where they can no longer afford the rent.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:25
Ethel_Fred
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They seem a bit insular in Stoke - "Lock the gates quick" "NOT IN OUT BACK YARD" etc. - wonder what the response would be if London prevented people from Stoke moving there in search of work.
Well aside from the obvious that the incomers would be using the same resources (housing, hospitals, schools, jobs, what not) as the locals there's also the extra money that Newham council has promised landlords if they house one of their people instead of a local - so instantly the locals are at a disadvantage for housing.

That's liable to upset people.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:26
Judge Mental
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And Newham doesn't face those challenges of course - it has one of the highest birth rates in the country and has seen its population grow massively due to migration. And it has a far bigger housing waiting list per head than Stoke - and rents/house prices substantially higher by several times,

Why should London councils/Londoners have to bear most/all of the burden/costs of population growth and migration?

You could have made the same arguments about Stoke as people in Barking and Dagenham were making 10 years ago about people moving in from Newham.
But you aren't solving the problem - you are just moving it from one place to another.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:30
tghe-retford
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Its highly unlikely it was true, no doubt it made good radio though
It's true. 48 minutes into the PM programme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01gg7g2

Walsall or the street.

EDIT: The Strategic Director of Housing & Regeneration at Westminster City Council, Ben Denton has said on record and on the radio that rents are going UP and that Westminster City Council is considering the idea of sending homeless people up to Derby or Nottingham.

Except that Nottingham faces people being forced out of their homes... because of the housing benefit caps!
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:31
ladymoanalot
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And Newham doesn't face those challenges of course - it has one of the highest birth rates in the country and has seen its population grow massively due to migration. And it has a far bigger housing waiting list per head than Stoke - and rents/house prices substantially higher by several times,

Why should London councils/Londoners have to bear most/all of the burden/costs of population growth and migration?


You could have made the same arguments about Stoke as people in Barking and Dagenham were making 10 years ago about people moving in from Newham.
They shouldn't but sending or trying to send them to other areas that are econmically deprived is senseless.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:32
jassi
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But you aren't solving the problem - you are just moving it from one place to another.
That's right - just moving the deckchairs to look as if something positive is being done
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:33
MARTYM8
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But you aren't solving the problem - you are just moving it from one place to another.
Average rents in Stoke are far cheaper than in Newham - you could probably rent a four bed house in Stoke for the price of a one bed flat in Stratford. So it does solve a rather pressing problem - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit.

Compare this 3 bed detached house with a driveway and room for several cars to park in Stoke for 795 a month rent

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-35971052.html

with this 1 bed flat in a tower block in Barking for 5 more a month (and that is Barking which is cheaper than Newham)!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-29399047.html

That speaks volumes! The garden alone of the home in Stoke looks bigger than the area of the whole tower block in Barking - yet the Barking block contains possibly 30-40 flats.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:35
spaniel-lover
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Newham should deport some of its many foreign residents back to their countries of origin - that would free up some affordable housing for native Londoners.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:37
Ethel_Fred
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Average rents in Stoke are far cheaper than in Newham - you could probably rent a four bed house in Stoke for the price of a one bed flat in Stratford. So it does solve a rather pressing problem - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit.
Don't think anyone has denied it. But foisting people on another area that has it's own problems with accommodation, jobs, etc does make it look as if money is more important than people.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:38
Nick1966
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Average rents in Stoke are far cheaper than in Newham - you could probably rent a four bed house in Stoke for the price of a one bed flat in Stratford. So it does solve a rather pressing problem - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit.
And if they rent, pensioners in receipt of means tested pension credit will almost certainly qualify for housing benefit, too.

Should they also moved to places with cheaper rents - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit ?
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:38
jassi
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Average rents in Stoke are far cheaper than in Newham - you could probably rent a four bed house in Stoke for the price of a one bed flat in Stratford. So it does solve a rather pressing problem - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit.

Compare this 3 bed detached house with a driveway and room for several cars to park in Stoke for 795 a month rent

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-35971052.html

with this 1 bed flat in a tower block in Barking for 5 more a month (and that is Barking which is cheaper than Newham)!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-29399047.html

That speaks volumes!
An influx of people from Newsham at higher rentals will merely inflate rents and in time displace part of the local populace
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:38
Judge Mental
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Average rents in Stoke are far cheaper than in Newham - you could probably rent a four bed house in Stoke for the price of a one bed flat in Stratford. So it does solve a rather pressing problem - saving the taxpayer money and helping to cut the deficit.

Compare this 3 bed detached house with a driveway and room for several cars to park in Stoke for 795 a month rent

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-35971052.html

with this 1 bed flat in a tower block in Barking for 5 more a month (and that is Barking which is cheaper than Newham)!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-29399047.html

That speaks volumes!
But it's not private rentals in Stoke that Newham wants is it - it wants Stoke's housing association to house them.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:40
Nick1966
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Newham should deport some of its many foreign residents back to their countries of origin - that would free up some affordable housing for native Londoners.
Deport some of its many foreigner residents back to their countries of origin.

Specifically which foreigners should Newham deport ?
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:43
jassi
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Deport some of its many foreigner residents back to their countries of origin.

Specifically which foreigners should Newham deport ?
I suppose one could start with non-EU citizens, though no doubt it would lead to years of wrangling through the courts.
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Old 24-04-2012, 19:44
MARTYM8
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But it's not private rentals in Stoke that Newham wants is it - it wants Stoke's housing association to house them.
And won't housing association rents be cheaper as well in Stoke - reflecting local market factors.

And potentially the housing association could rent via private landlords if there are insufficient housing association homes - so you house a family for possibly a quarter of the rent you would pay in Newham for a four bed home.
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