[kate36]

I've never felt completely happy about the McCanns and their version of events of what allegedly happened that night
why on earth would two apparently intelligent professional people leave their children unsupervised in a strange apartment???

[Puterkid]

I think the biggest argument that the Mccanns are guilty of nothing more than neglect, (which is bad enough actually), is the fact that they keep wanting the case investigated. Surely if they do know what happened to Madeleine they don't want police snooping around trying to find out the truth.Yet it is they who are keeping up the search.

You would think they would keep quiet and breath a sigh of relief that the various police and investigators haven't unearthed any conclusive evidence against them.

I suppose some would say that this is some sort of double bluff, but I can't see how they could keep it up so long.

It is a strange and disturbing case, Kate and Gerry always appeared atypical of distraught parents on the event of their child going missing, their holiday arrangements did seem odd, especially the dining arrangements. It appeared that they didn't want a holiday with their children, they wanted one with their friends, so the children were despatched to creche's and to bed as soon as possible so they could enjoy an adult style of holiday. Whilst this seems strange to some, it doesn't make them guilty of hiding any dark secrets.

I would so love there to be closure and for the truth to be discovered. Unfortunately, if the McCann's are right, and she was taken from her bed by a stranger, then the chances of her being brought up well and in happy circumstances by other 'parents' somewhere must be more or less nil. There must be easier ways to take a child, and easier children to take. Taking a child of english holiday makers is bound to get huge publicity and be far too dangerous.

[Hermione]

Originally Posted by owllover

When the police and press call those of us who react and question, ghouls, then I'm alarmed.

I couldn't agree more.

[ganderpoke66]

Originally Posted by Puterkid

I think the biggest argument that the Mccanns are guilty of nothing more than neglect, (which is bad enough actually), is the fact that they keep wanting the case investigated. Surely if they do know what happened to Madeleine they don't want police snooping around trying to find out the truth.Yet it is they who are keeping up the search.

You would think they would keep quiet and breath a sigh of relief that the various police and investigators haven't unearthed any conclusive evidence against them.

I suppose some would say that this is some sort of double bluff, but I can't see how they could keep it up so long.

I agree, it's The Ian Huntley Effect, where his eagerness to be co-operative and helpful towards the Police actually caused the cops to take a bit more interest in him and led to his conviction.

The critics would say the McCanns certainly keep up the pretence in pushing for further investigations but steadfastly refuse to co-operate in other aspects of the investigation like answering awkward questions, doing reconstructions, lie detector tests, Etc.

[Hotgossip]

[quote=kate36;57905849]I've never felt completely happy about the McCanns and their version of events of what allegedly happened that night
why on earth would two apparently intelligent professional people leave their children unsupervised in a strange apartment???[/QUOTE]

I reckon they are cheapskates. As doctors they would both be on 6 figure salaries so they could easily have afforded to take a nanny or childminder with them or arrange for one out there. I think I'm right in saying that they did have a "nanny" who helped them out at home in Rothley.

Quite apart from the worry of leaving 2 small kids alone, as a mother I would have worried about one of them vomiting in their sleep, falling out of bed onto a hard marble floor, pulling something onto themselves .... anything could happen. With them both being doctors it beggars belief that they didn't consider stuff like this when they must have come across all sorts of accidents in their training and careers.

People who have ever left their kids unattended always try and defend their actions by saying things like "some places used to do a baby listening service" but even that was an option - it wasn't complusory, and I for one would never have used such a service.

[grimtales1]

Originally Posted by Puterkid

I think the biggest argument that the Mccanns are guilty of nothing more than neglect, (which is bad enough actually), is the fact that they keep wanting the case investigated. Surely if they do know what happened to Madeleine they don't want police snooping around trying to find out the truth.Yet it is they who are keeping up the search.

You would think they would keep quiet and breath a sigh of relief that the various police and investigators haven't unearthed any conclusive evidence against them.

I suppose some would say that this is some sort of double bluff, but I can't see how they could keep it up so long.

It is a strange and disturbing case, Kate and Gerry always appeared atypical of distraught parents on the event of their child going missing, their holiday arrangements did seem odd, especially the dining arrangements. It appeared that they didn't want a holiday with their children, they wanted one with their friends, so the children were despatched to creche's and to bed as soon as possible so they could enjoy an adult style of holiday. Whilst this seems strange to some, it doesn't make them guilty of hiding any dark secrets.

I would so love there to be closure and for the truth to be discovered. Unfortunately, if the McCann's are right, and she was taken from her bed by a stranger, then the chances of her being brought up well and in happy circumstances by other 'parents' somewhere must be more or less nil. There must be easier ways to take a child, and easier children to take. Taking a child of english holiday makers is bound to get huge publicity and be far too dangerous.

That's a good point, part of me thinks no parent would ever do something like this, and if the McCanns were responsible for her death (if she's dead) or covered it up the truth would come out by now, and if they did it themselves they wouldnt want people looking in it. They couldnt keep up a charade, unless theyre theyre the worlds best actors.

[aggs]

Originally Posted by stargazer61

and that is perfectly possible to be an 'off the cuff' remark (that all of us are capable of) whilst under stress.

You could also consider that she was unable to sleep for a couple of nights but then was completely exhausted. Also, she may have had sleeping tablets for a while. Or any other scenario that no-one knows about.

To draw a conclusion from a few words, taken out of context, is dangerous and misleading.

A few months' after Maddie went missing, the McCanns had independent tests done for Kate and the twins (possibly hoping to quash questions about whether the twins had been sedated to sleep or that Mrs McCann on medication) and the results came back (in a nice tabloid headline) to say there was no evidence that any of them had taken any drugs over the last 6/8 months'.

Which was a bit of a double edged sword as it turned out - because while that period of time took them back to before Madeleine disappeared, it obviously more than covered the period of time after when there was no evidence of drugs, either.

[stargazer61]

Originally Posted by kate36

I've never felt completely happy about the McCanns and their version of events of what allegedly happened that night
why on earth would two apparently intelligent professional people leave their children unsupervised in a strange apartment???

Perhap because people make different judgment calls? What is considered acceptable to one person, is not acceptable to another....so we condemn on the basis of what we would do, without regard to the fact that others have alternative views.

It seems that the whole group left the children alone in apartments, with one parent checking on all the children from time to time. This was obviously a group decision - and was acceptable to them all. Perhaps being in a designated holiday apartment area led people to a false sense of security? Perhaps they grew up in a time when many people left children asleep whilst they went for an evening meal - even 20 years ago it was not uncommon for people to do that in.
holiday camps.



.

[Dan Fortesque]

Originally Posted by grimtales1

That's a good point, part of me thinks no parent would ever do something like this, and if the McCanns were responsible for her death (if she's dead) or covered it up the truth would come out by now, and if they did it themselves they wouldnt want people looking in it. They couldnt keep up a charade, unless theyre theyre the worlds best actors.

Also, how much time would they have had to dispose of her body? That would suggest it wouldn't be that far and so more likely to be discovered in the ensuing search. Personally, I think this is the least likely scenario with regards to this case.

[2shy2007]

Originally Posted by Dan Fortesque

Also, how much time would they have had to dispose of her body? That would suggest it wouldn't be that far and so more likely to be discovered in the ensuing search. Personally, I think this is the least likely scenario with regards to this case.

Amaral believes the movement was approx 3 weeks later in the Megane.Meanwhile he believes that the church in PDL played a large part in the activity.

[stargazer61]

Originally Posted by Puterkid

I think the biggest argument that the Mccanns are guilty of nothing more than neglect, (which is bad enough actually), is the fact that they keep wanting the case investigated. Surely if they do know what happened to Madeleine they don't want police snooping around trying to find out the truth.Yet it is they who are keeping up the search.

You would think they would keep quiet and breath a sigh of relief that the various police and investigators haven't unearthed any conclusive evidence against them.

I suppose some would say that this is some sort of double bluff, but I can't see how they could keep it up so long.

It is a strange and disturbing case, Kate and Gerry always appeared atypical of distraught parents on the event of their child going missing, their holiday arrangements did seem odd, especially the dining arrangements. It appeared that they didn't want a holiday with their children, they wanted one with their friends, so the children were despatched to creche's and to bed as soon as possible so they could enjoy an adult style of holiday. Whilst this seems strange to some, it doesn't make them guilty of hiding any dark secrets.

I would so love there to be closure and for the truth to be discovered. Unfortunately, if the McCann's are right, and she was taken from her bed by a stranger, then the chances of her being brought up well and in happy circumstances by other 'parents' somewhere must be more or less nil. There must be easier ways to take a child, and easier children to take. Taking a child of english holiday makers is bound to get huge publicity and be far too dangerous.

So they didn't appear distraught is a reason to condemn? Not everyone reacts to situations in the same way. Not everyone is going to scream, wail, and rent their clothes in public - just to satisfy those who think they should. I think that the fact they are doctors should give a clue. Doctors deal with very difficult things on a daily basis whether a tragic accident coming into A & E, or as a GP telling an elderly man that his wife is dying. They learn to control their emotions in public, they have to, or else they would not be able to function within their profession. Same for paramedics, police, nurses, firemaen etc. In the face of tragedy, they go into professional auto-pilot mode - at home things may be very different.

In addition, think about Tracy Andrews ( think that is her correct name).....crying and wailing at her Press Conferance whilst being guilty of the very murder! Not crying in public is not a reason for condemnation.

I do not undertand your point about adult holidays. Since they spent the day with young children, is it not reasonable that they spend the evening having a meal with the other adults. Young children need sleep. Should they have been kept up until midnight so they could partake in the parents meal? The holiday was for both adults and children.

Edit.......I do agree with your point about The McCanns keeping up the search. I would have thought that most guilty people want to keep their heads down and keep quiet as soon as possible and not to keep badgering agencies to keep the case open for so long. The more they demand the case is kept open, the more every detail is reviewed, thus opening up danger to themselves if they were guilty

[Liz G-S]

Although you have to adapt to the times and times have changed - it is no longer safe to leave children alone or let them spend hours playing outside out of sight. I had a lot of freedom as a child, my mother had no reason to worry, but there is no way I would do the same with my childen as the world is a different place now.

I think they wanted adult time at evening meals without having to deal with children. It was basically an adult holiday on which the children tagged along, at least the McCann children were all day in the creche, in the evenings alone. Even though it was a collective decision, I think they all knew it wasn't right, but took a calculated risk - most times nothing will happen, but this time it did. A documentary showed the way they had to go to get from the Tapas Bar to the apartment, it was along a dark unlit road - they must have known it wasn't like sitting in the garden or the restaurant of a hotel.

But they will know this and feel tremendous guilt, because even if an abduction did take place, they will know they facilitated it and had they not left their children alone, it would not have happened. I think this will haunt them for ever - however, their failure to accept this publically and their statements that everyone does it has alienated many people - as has their complete lack of sympathy for the innocent people whose lives have been ruined as a direct result of their neglect - especially Robert Murat, who their friends, at least, seemed to want to frame and against whom Kate wrote death wishes in her published diary excerpts - when it appears he was just trying to help them, as a father of a small daughter the same age as Maddie.

[aggs]

Originally Posted by stargazer61

I do not undertand your point about adult holidays. Since they spent the day with young children, is it not reasonable that they spend the evening having a meal with the other adults. Young children need sleep. Should they have been kept up until midnight so they could partake in the parents meal? The holiday was for both adults and children.

But they didn't, did they?
The McCann children at least were in the creche for both the morning and afternoon sessions every day.

The time with the children was the bit between creches.

[Dan Fortesque]

Originally Posted by 2shy2007

Amaral believes the movement was approx 3 weeks later in the Megane.Meanwhile he believes that the church in PDL played a large part in the activity.

It just gets sillier and sillier. All this in view of the world's media, the police and the public? But that's beside the point, as it's about whether or not they would risk her being found by keep bringing the matter up, time and time again and therefore more likely to get themselves caught.

[2shy2007]

Originally Posted by Dan Fortesque

It just gets sillier and sillier. All this in view of the world's media, the police and the public? But that besides the point, as it's about whether or not they would risk her being found by keep bringing the matter up, time and time again and therefore more likely to get themselves caught.

Sometimes the truth is silly, dogs cant lie.

[stargazer61]

Originally Posted by Dan Fortesque

It just gets sillier and sillier. All this in view of the world's media, the police and the public? But that besides the point, as it's about whether or not they would risk her being found by keep bringing the matter up, time and time again and therefore more likely to get themselves caught.

Quite.

[stargazer61]

Originally Posted by 2shy2007

Sometimes the truth is silly, dogs cant lie.

No, but like lie detector tests, they are not 100% reliable. They both give false positives and false negatives for that matter. All they do is indicate to their human handlers that there MAY be cause to investigate something. It is not like on the TV programmes- in the real world lie detectors and scent dogs are not infallable

[aggs]

Originally Posted by stargazer61

No, but like lie detector tests, they are not 100% reliable. They both give false positives and false negatives for that matter. All they do is indicate to their human handlers that there MAY be cause to investigate something. It is not like on the TV programmes- in the real world lie detectors and scent dogs are not infallable

Which is why in this case, without knowing what it was they were alerting too, they cannot be dismissed out of paw.

Their alerts stand as indicators. Hopefully, when the case is solved their work will be contextualised and conclusions drawn but until then it is a part of the case.

Alerting to a scent when the source of the scent is (often long) gone is what they do. It's up to the human section of the investigation to sort that bit out.

By all means, don't base your whole opinion of the case on the one section of evidence/findings, but on the other hand don't summarily disregard something that is, as yet, still awating confirmation/dismissal.

[jamie1992]

Originally Posted by Dan Fortesque

It just gets sillier and sillier. All this in view of the world's media, the police and the public? But that besides the point, as it's about whether or not they would risk her being found by keep bringing the matter up, time and time again and therefore more likely to get themselves caught.

It doesn't take an Einstein to deduce that if they were indeed covering up an accidental death and staging an abduction, then they would have to do exactly what everyone would be expecting them to do if she really had gone missing (which includes asking for donations).
They've gone through the motions in most respects, but as others have observed, there seems to be an undue lack of emotion in their behaviour and in their body language.

[Goldbear86]

[quote=Hotgossip;57906382]

Originally Posted by kate36

I've never felt completely happy about the McCanns and their version of events of what allegedly happened that night
why on earth would two apparently intelligent professional people leave their children unsupervised in a strange apartment???[/QUOTE]

I reckon they are cheapskates. As doctors they would both be on 6 figure salaries so they could easily have afforded to take a nanny or childminder with them or arrange for one out there. I think I'm right in saying that they did have a "nanny" who helped them out at home in Rothley.

Quite apart from the worry of leaving 2 small kids alone, as a mother I would have worried about one of them vomiting in their sleep, falling out of bed onto a hard marble floor, pulling something onto themselves .... anything could happen. With them both being doctors it beggars belief that they didn't consider stuff like this when they must have come across all sorts of accidents in their training and careers.

People who have ever left their kids unattended always try and defend their actions by saying things like "some places used to do a baby listening service" but even that was an option - it wasn't complusory, and I for one would never have used such a service.

I think the babysitting service in the evening was free. The McCanns tried to say it was because they didn't feel comfortable leaving their children with strangers- although it was perfectly acceptable during the day it seems to dump them in the crèche so that arguement holds no weight. One of the group had a young baby which is even more shocking. I'm also fairly certain that one of the group was late as his child was being sick- how on earth can anyone leave a sick child unsupervised? Selfish, selfish people.

[ftv]

The McCanns will be appearing on Lorraine on ITV1 next Wednesday at 8.30 am when no doubt they will be subjected to the usual tough questioning we associate with this programme.

[Abbasolutely 40]

Originally Posted by ftv

The McCanns will be appearing on Lorraine on ITV1 next Wednesday at 8.30 am when no doubt they will be subjected to the usual tough questioning we associate with this programme.

I will be sure to avoid that , Lorraine will fawn and cluck and look sooooo sympathetic and Kate will do her usual head to the side and hold Gerrys hand and Gerry will look straight ahead as the hero of the tale and nothing all all new will be said .

If the Mc Canns put their energy into a campaign about never leaving your children in danger and how to look after small children then I might give a tad more sympathy .As it is all my sympathy goes to Madeleine and her twin siblings .

[Goldbear86]

Originally Posted by ftv

The McCanns will be appearing on Lorraine on ITV1 next Wednesday at 8.30 am when no doubt they will be subjected to the usual tough questioning we associate with this programme.

I remember Lorraine saying at the time of the incident that "all parents have did what they did" Herself included.

The last time they appeared on morning tv Philip Schoefield got very angry on twitter as someone tweeted him a reasonable question about the parents behaviour. Why are people so scared of these two???

[bel110]

[quote=Goldbear86;57907201]

Originally Posted by Hotgossip

I think the babysitting service in the evening was free. The McCanns tried to say it was because they didn't feel comfortable leaving their children with strangers- although it was perfectly acceptable during the day it seems to dump them in the crèche so that arguement holds no weight. One of the group had a young baby which is even more shocking. I'm also fairly certain that one of the group was late as his child was being sick- how on earth can anyone leave a sick child unsupervised? Selfish, selfish people.

I find it incomprehensible how any parents can leave children alone either at home or in a strange place and more so a sick child. Plus I remember Kate saying in another interview that Maddie had said she was upset and scared about being left alone and yet they still went out the next night and did it. It goes beyond all your parental instincts and it's very strange.

Apart from all the known dangers ( chocking, fire, falling etc ) there is the simple fact that small children wake several times a night often after a bad dream or simply in need of a bit of comfort and they need a parent there to give them a hug and put them back to bed.

I was listening to a radio interview the other day and the dj was saying he left his children in holiday camps when they were young and saying that it wasn't the parents fault etc etc. I find it such an odd view and there is something very stange in the way that the media let this part of the incident go. Sure it was something that happened 30 years ago but it simply isn't safe to leave small children on their own anymore for a number of reasons.

I live in Spain where it's common to see a number of buggy's at dinner tables at restaurants in the summer, it's part of the family culture here that children come out to eat with their parents and sleep at the table. Children are welcomed and it's made easy for families to bring them. If the McCann's didn't want that type of holiday they should have left the children at home with the grandparents. As parents if you take your children on holiday you have to accept that it's going to be a different type of holiday to one you might have had as a couple alone and if you want to have a night off then hire a babysitter. It's not rocket science and the neglect they showed to all 3 children makes me really angry. I have twins who are just under 1 and a 5 year old and there is not way I'd go further than where I can hear them on the monitors when they are in their rooms. It's just bizarre.

[SydneyHedgehog]

Originally Posted by Goldbear86

I remember Lorraine saying at the time of the incident that "all parents have did what they did" Herself included.

The last time they appeared on morning tv Philip Schoefield got very angry on twitter as someone tweeted him a reasonable question about the parents behaviour. Why are people so scared of these two???

I hate when celebs speak for the rest of us .......... no Philip I havent done that, so stick that in your peace pipe and smoke it.