[bowland37]

Originally Posted by seellee

So a manager of the month award and narrowly avoiding relegation is a good season is it?

For a team with very limited resources and a small fan base like Wigan then yes. What would you expect them to do, get a CL spot?

[TheMask]

Originally Posted by bowland37

For a team like Wigan then yes. What would you expect them to do, get a CL spot?

No it's not a good season for someone like Wigan.

Good edit Mr Bowland37.

[bowland37]

Originally Posted by TheMask

No it's not a good season for someone like Wigan..

I'm sure the likes of Nottingham Forest. Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday and Wolves wouldn't mind being in Wigan's position.

[seellee]

Originally Posted by bowland37

For a team like Wigan then yes. What would you expect them to do, get a CL spot?

I'd expect them to be higher than they are. Especially as they aren't a relegation team in my view. However they never seem to start playing until the last few games of the season.

I'll answer your question though. The cup competitions have been fantastic. The league has been awful. I wouldn't start calling for Dalglish to get sacked after one season though. He should have another summer. He changed a lot of the squad last summer, I'd lik to see what a proper break/summer could do to some of the team. Plus I'm interested to see who will be signed.

If Dalglish does go, none of the mangers mentioned would do. As others have said it would just be another Hodgson appointment. one man I would consider though, but I know it will get shouted down, would be fabio Capello.

[DontMessDThread]

Are all you guys hoping for a Man City win today?

[TheMask]

Originally Posted by DontMessDThread

Are all you guys hoping for a Man City win today?

I am...

[hume]

Originally Posted by TheMask

No it's not a good season for someone like Wigan.

Good edit Mr Bowland37.

Staying in the premiership on a £8m transfer budget is the sign of a good manager. Losing your best players each season and achieving it, is the sign of a great manager.

[Unigal07]

Originally Posted by DontMessDThread

Are all you guys hoping for a Man City win today?

My head says City but my heart says Newcastle.

[Raven123]

Originally Posted by seellee

I wouldn't start calling for Dalglish to get sacked after one season though. He should have another summer. He changed a lot of the squad last summer, I'd lik to see what a proper break/summer could do to some of the team. Plus I'm interested to see who will be signed.

He hasn't just had 1 season.

He has had a proper break and Summer and he messed the whole squad up. He doesn't deserve another Summer. He could do with a long rest though.....away from the game.

[alancracker]

Its not a good time to be a LFC supporter right now - partic one like me who is old school and yearns back to the Shankly ethos at the club which lasted for years after he died but in many ways now seems a distant memory. The best person to embody it is Kenny Dalglish and when he became boss last year it made the people happy to use the famous Shanks quote.

And for sure there have been ways in which Kenny has returned the club to those old values. Also in my eyes Kenny has special qualities that mark him out above his peers so we are happy that

• the manager forever talks about the club not individuals including himself
• there is no ego to the manager
• the manager does not criticise his players in public
• the manager tries to set us up in an attacking 'pass and move' Liverpool way (maybe not always succeeding - see yesterday!! - why? - not got the players to do it imo)
• the manager does not leak things to the press to discredit others at the club as has happened recently
• the players seem to all love the manager showing his exceptional man management skills
• the manager will not sing from the Sky agenda and clearly does not like the sound bite 24 hour news modern day sports generation
• the manager has a special relationship with the fans of the club - beams at them every time we score

Us traditional LFC fans would love it if he was able to bring back the glory days to the club as so many of those qualities listed above are drawn from the Shankly legacy - when we brought this man to the club in 1978 yes we bought a fantastic player but we also bought someone whose football philosophy was very Shanklyesque.

But ...and i am afraid there is a but there are signs that it is not working out in the one place it has to - on the pitch!!

The continued selection of Jordan Henderson is mind boggling and in the end could cost King Kenny his dream job. We did not need a player in his position, imo he did not seem to be any good at SFC and has done nothing in a LFC shirt to convince me otherwise and yet he is always picked. Why?- maybe a fault Kenny has is cos of his inbuilt loyalty and belief in his own ability he does not find it easy to admit he was wrong but he was certainly wrong to sign him and keep picking him. Same is true of Downing - but maybe to a lesser degree.

These two at the very least have to be ditched from the first choice team next season for us to have any chance of success - I really do not know if Kenny will do it, if he does not then sadly we are sure to remain at the level we are and that is not good enough so in the end he will have to go.

Going onto who to get the job if he does go? - as we see from this thread there is no agreement from LFC fans - there is the first problem!! Unlike Kenny whoever we get will not have universal support whoever they are (even Rafa) and tbh they will have to be able to buy into what LFC is meant to stand for - see the list above regarding Kenny's attributes.Roy Hodgson for instance didn't and so with the benefit of hindsight was unsuitable for the job. I hope the owners know this - they do show signs of having taken in what the club is and so I expect they do. Personally I like Martinez as he plays the right kind of football and talks a good game too in terms of his attitude to the media, I think of those talked about he is the one I think could best fit in at LFC. But many it seems don't and so if he came in it would be a hard battle to win people over initially.

Then we have to talk about what to do with Kenny if the worst comes to the worst and he does leave the manager job. Imo the man has unique personal qualities which mark him out as being suitable to represent LFC as he knows what LFC means.(very few others have this, even the likes of Aldo and Thommo at times make me cringe - maybe John Barnes is another but they are very special people - Sami would perhaps be another but he has well gone sadly) but at the same time it would not be fair for him to be in a role which could undermine any new boss. A difficult dilemma. Lets just hope it is one we don't have to face for a while and that it is Henderson and Downing who are not at LFC in August not Kenny. Maybe I would not be so dogmatic as to say that if those 2 are still at the club we will fail but if those two are still in the first eleven I am sure we will fail and Kenny will end up leaving the job - bottom line we need better players!!

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by alancracker

Personally I like Martinez as he plays the right kind of football and talks a good game too in terms of his attitude to the media,

It is absolutely mind-blowing that you will use media attitude as a plus point for a potential manager while at the same time defending Dalglish and his dealings with the media.

Its either important or it isn't.

[seellee]

Originally Posted by Raven123

He hasn't just had 1 season.

He has had a proper break and Summer and he messed the whole squad up. He doesn't deserve another Summer. He could do with a long rest though.....away from the game.

Sorry, are you a Liverpool supporter? Forgive me as I really don't know.

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by seellee

Sorry, are you a Liverpool supporter? Forgive me as I really don't know.

Im more of a Liverpool supporter than he is!

[seellee]

Originally Posted by Cantona07

It is absolutely mind-blowing that you will use media attitude as a plus point for a potential manager while at the same time defending Dalglish and his dealings with the media.

Its either important or it isn't.

Cantona, I feel we have what you alluded to earlier in this thread. People are changing their minds or furthering their dislike of Dalglish based on a cup final loss.

[bowland37]

KD is getting things wrong tactically week in week out and the players don't look properly motivated half the time. He also can't deal with the media properly.

Getting in someone like Martinez or Lambert would be less of a risk than keeping KD for another season imo.

[seellee]

Originally Posted by bowland37

KD is getting things wrong tactically week in week out and the players don't look properly motivated half the time. He also can't deal with the media properly.

Getting in someone like Martinez or Lambert would be less of a risk than keeping KD for another season imo.

What happens if they fail, do we continue sacking? Do we become Chelsea?

At some point we have to say you have 2-3 years whatever happens. Too many people are expecting instant reward. 18 months ago we were on the brink of administration!

[bowland37]

Originally Posted by seellee

What happens if they fail, do we continue sacking? Do we become Chelsea?

At some point we have to say you have 2-3 years whatever happens. Too many people are expecting instant reward. 18 months ago we were on the brink of administration!

If we continue our form in the last 10 games next season we'll be in a relegation battle. 10 points from the last 10 games doesn't suggest things are improving and 3 points from the last 5 games looks even more desperate.

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by seellee

What happens if they fail, do we continue sacking? Do we become Chelsea?

At some point we have to say you have 2-3 years whatever happens. Too many people are expecting instant reward. 18 months ago we were on the brink of administration!

But the dichotomy is 18 months ago you didn't say "you have to have 2-3 years max whatever happens" you wanted the man out and you got him out.

Everything you have just said was equally true 18 months ago!

[seellee]

Originally Posted by Cantona07

But the dichotomy is 18 months ago you didn't say "you have to have 2-3 years max whatever happens" you wanted the man out and you got him out.

Everything you have just said was equally true 18 months ago!

You are probably right Cantona, but we made the decision we now have to stick by it. We can't just keep sacking. I think people just need to calm down and give us at least the first two months of the new season. Talk of relegation is laughable. A lot can happen in a few months.

[ZicoZ]

Originally Posted by DontMessDThread

Are all you guys hoping for a Man City win today?

YES , of course, apparently it's boring to have the same team winning the league every year

[bowland37]

Originally Posted by seellee

Talk of relegation is laughable.

That's our current form under KD.

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by seellee

You are probably right Cantona, but we made the decision we now have to stick by it. We can't just keep sacking. I think people just need to calm down and give us at least the first two months of the new season. Talk of relegation is laughable. A lot can happen in a few months.

The problem is, generally speaking, people tend to say things like "it took SAF 6 years at United" as if that is the blueprint for success and every manager deserves the same amount of time because of what SAF did. However the reality is there are very few SAFs out there and in the majority of cases getting rid is the right thing to do, ask Sunderland fans for example.

Regardless of principle or history or anything else you should sack the manager if he is the wrong man. Deciding he actually is the wrong man is the tough bit!

[seellee]

Originally Posted by bowland37

That's our current form under KD.

Nope according to the form table it's mid table form. Which is where we are. Complete over-exaggeration as usual after a bad result.

[alancracker]

Originally Posted by Cantona07

It is absolutely mind-blowing that you will use media attitude as a plus point for a potential manager while at the same time defending Dalglish and his dealings with the media.

Its either important or it isn't.

It prob isn't that important tbh - part of my dislike for Ferguson is the 7 year boycott of the BBC and that did not really do him any harm and did not stop the club being successful which is the only thing which really matters.

There is so much which could be said re the media in relation to Kenny and others but I will try to be brief (unlike last post ). Yes at times he is unnecessarily prickly, I can accept that, but overall as LFC fans we share his disdain for these people who have no real interest but getting short shallow answers to questions which often do not have short answers. They would love it if there was some sort of a rant or the like. They are not people who really understand the game at the level he does and so he does not really respect them but always will perform his duty and talk to them. Also the way the media covered Hillsborough and Suarez has not helped as Kenny and many LFC fans feel that we have had a less than fair coverage there.

Why do I like Martinez? - he is straight, he respects other clubs, he stands by his players (a la Kenny) so imo he would represent LFC well in interviews. But that is not the main reason why I think of the poss candidates he is maybe the best. That is to do with style of play, getting the best out of players, transfer dealings, as a continental a greater awareness of the foreign market, being quite young but still having had a bit of experience, mate of Rafas so he will be briefed on LFC and its values ...etc.

[bowland37]

Originally Posted by seellee

Nope according to the form table it's mid table form. Which is where we are. Complete over-exaggeration as usual after a bad result.

Continue the form over the last 10 games ( 1 point per game ) next season and we would end up with 38 points.