[sovietusername]

Am I alone in thinking that 10's departure from the show+his final specilas were really badly handled.While they were good stories I really didnt like the Doctor in these episodes, I got fed up with him and by the end and I was just like "bloody DIE ALREADY!!!) It was really weak and I'm sorry, obviously there had to be lots of emotion, but the way the Doctor took his regeneration was really wimpy and made him look side a scaredy cat, turning a Doctor I DID really like into one who irritated me. I n fact, this probably one of the reason Matt Smith is my favourite Doctor and Tennant... isnt. That and the fact that 11 is just unbelieveably epic+FANTASTIC! But I dont want to turn this into a Tennant vs. Smith debate, I loved Tennant until Journeys End and I think the person whose really to blame is RTD. I mean, "I dont want to go!" I just think it was really poorly executed and made him seem a wimp when compared to the other Doctors, especially Smith who wasnt just going to regenerate, in series 6 he thought he was actually going to properly die yet he didnt go all cry baby! Anyway, what do you think?

[Stever7]

I disagree, I personally loved it and loved the fact he was resistant to dying. The Doctor isn't meant to be perfect and I love the fact they touched on regeneration and how it affects a Time Lord "Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away. And I'm dead." I love that line and think it adds so much to the character in that dying isn't meaningless. Sure The Doctor lives on but part of him dies and it makes sacrifices he makes so much more meaningful.

My only critisim would be how they portrayed Rassilon into this massivly evil guy.

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

I thought it was fine myself, and nice exploding regeneration, I like that better than the early ones.
You're not alone though, you'll find quite a lot of people on here who agree. I'd post something better but I'm tired

[Mystical123]

I hated the specials, but I don't think him leaving at the end of series 4 would have felt quite right. I didn't have a problem with him not wanting to regenerate, but I just didn't enjoy any of the specials at all, so by the time it came to The End of Time I was just a bit bored with it all.

However, to give RTD some credit, the last 10 minutes of the last special, just before the Doctor regenerated, were perfect - I liked how he revisited companions just before his time was up.

[pajs1000]

Originally Posted by Stever7

I disagree, I personally loved it and loved the fact he was resistant to dying. The Doctor isn't meant to be perfect and I love the fact they touched on regeneration and how it affects a Time Lord "Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away. And I'm dead." I love that line and think it adds so much to the character in that dying isn't meaningless. Sure The Doctor lives on but part of him dies and it makes sacrifices he makes so much more meaningful.

My only critisim would be how they portrayed Rassilon into this massivly evil guy.

I agree100%

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

Originally Posted by pajs1000

I agree100%

Me too

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by Stever7

I disagree, I personally loved it and loved the fact he was resistant to dying. The Doctor isn't meant to be perfect and I love the fact they touched on regeneration and how it affects a Time Lord "Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away. And I'm dead." I love that line and think it adds so much to the character in that dying isn't meaningless. Sure The Doctor lives on but part of him dies and it makes sacrifices he makes so much more meaningful.

My only critisim would be how they portrayed Rassilon into this massivly evil guy.

Except it totally alienated those whose fave Doctor was 10. I think this is one of the reasons loads dont like Smith, it seeming like the Doctor has died. And again, it was inconsistent with the other regenerations, making him look like he has no balls. And the Doctor HAS BALLS. Make it sad yes. But not overly trying to be sad though, there are plenty that have upset the viewers without doing what Tennant did e.g. I find Pertwee's death really sad and, while I have seen a lot of 3's, I havent seen planet of the spiders nor is 3 my fave dr. It's just a classic example of how RTD is brill, but he overdoes things, and goes to far. The ending to series 4 for example, I mean for ****s sake, Oooh look, I'm half Time Lord, that means I only have to press a few buttons and ALL the Daleks die with no explnantion whatsoever!

[TLC1098]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Except it totally alienated those whose fave Doctor was 10. I think this is one of the reasons loads dont like Smith, it seeming like the Doctor has died. And again, it was inconsistent with the other regenerations, making him look like he has no balls. And the Doctor HAS BALLS. Make it sad yes. But not overly trying to be sad though, there are plenty that have upset the viewers without doing what Tennant did e.g. I find Pertwee's death really sad and, while I have seen a lot of 3's, I havent seen planet of the spiders nor is 3 my fave dr. It's just a classic example of how RTD is brill, but he overdoes things, and goes to far. The ending to series 4 for example, I mean for ****s sake, Oooh look, I'm half Time Lord, that means I only have to press a few buttons and ALL the Daleks die with no explnantion whatsoever!

But each time The Doctor regenerates he basically does die and then turns into this brand new person. As for 10's regeneration I wouldn't let it put me off him maybe it was his favourite form and didn't want to regenerate again. To be honest the whole I don't want to go speech was a sleak attack by Davies in an attempt to make the fans too upset to like Smith.

[Stever7]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Except it totally alienated those whose fave Doctor was 10. I think this is one of the reasons loads dont like Smith, it seeming like the Doctor has died. And again, it was inconsistent with the other regenerations, making him look like he has no balls. And the Doctor HAS BALLS. Make it sad yes. But not overly trying to be sad though, there are plenty that have upset the viewers without doing what Tennant did e.g. I find Pertwee's death really sad and, while I have seen a lot of 3's, I havent seen planet of the spiders nor is 3 my fave dr. It's just a classic example of how RTD is brill, but he overdoes things, and goes to far. The ending to series 4 for example, I mean for ****s sake, Oooh look, I'm half Time Lord, that means I only have to press a few buttons and ALL the Daleks die with no explnantion whatsoever!

I'd say the 10th is thus far my favourite (although I have a soft spot for the 2nd; but haven't seen enough of his serials. I also like the 9th and the 11th is rapidly gaining on my love for the 10th) and I don't feel alienated.

It didn't make it seem like The Doctor didn't have balls, instead it made it seem like he had even more. The others seem to not care about regeneration and so death is meaningless to them. They also tend to die in battle; no choice in the matter.

The 10th didn't want to change, he didn't want to die... and then he got given the choice. Face his fears and do what he doesn't want to... or let an innocent man (/friend) die in your place. He walked to his death with head held high. He cried, big whoop, he said he didn't want to go, big whoop. He still faced death like a man when he could have run. How does that make it look like he doesn't have balls?!

[Ash_735]

I still think the "I don't want to go" is taken out of context soo much. The whole point of the story was that 10 didn't want to Regenerate as he believed he's lived longer than anyone should and accepted that he'd have to die, the whole arc was about him accepting death as opposed to regenerating.

And then, at the end, when he's about to die, walking around the TARDIS console, he stops and looks on "I don't want to go" and immediately starts to Regenerate. It's easy to see the dual meaning of it as RTD and DT saying "I don't want to go" but in terms of The Doctor, it made no sense at all considering he's done this nine times before, and I think it fits more with the accepting Death thing and then backing out of that.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by TLC1098

....To be honest the whole I don't want to go speech was a sleak attack by Davies in an attempt to make the fans too upset to like Smith.

Why would lifelong Doctor Who fan RTD want to put a spanner in the works? Are you sure you mean this? It seems tosh to me.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Am I alone in thinking.......?

A quick forum search would probably find you plenty of similar threads about this.

[inspector drake]

Personally, I've always seen regeneration, as a change, which is why I disliked the newly developed idea towards Regeneration. It's always been referred to before as a change (or in classic who, a 'renewal'), so this 'it feels like dying' bored m to death.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

A quick forum search would probably find you plenty of similar threads about this.

Yep I agree, this topic has been done to death. No offence OP.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Yep I agree, this topic has been done to death. No offence OP.

it doesn't want to go?

I must say though, in seriousness, I'm not sure I have seen that many threads on this topic, to be fair, but maybe I just missed all the others. I'm sure it was discussed a lot at the time, but I don't recall much discussion since.


Anyway, at the time it aired, the last Tennant line did bother me a little, it just didn't sit right with me for reasons i couldn't quite put my finger on.

I definitely don't think there was an malicious attempt by RTD to put people off the next Doctor, as nebo says the man is a lifelong fan of the show and remains one to this day, however perhaps they weren't the best choice of words in terms of getting people to embrace the new Doctor either. I think it was fortunate that Smith made such a strong entrance himself, because i think his job was made harder by having Tennant's Doctor seemingly so reluctant to regenerate right down to the bitter end in my view. I think I would perhaps have personally preferred him to embrace his regeneration at the last.

It's interesting how ones perception of a story over time can change as well, at the time this went out I really liked the second half of the story, but when I saw it again over Christmas, I was surprised how little I enjoyed it. I had a lengthy debate on twitter with a few other forum members, and smiddlehurst made a point that made my problem with the story click in to place: it's closing segment was more about Tennant and RTD's departure than a Doctor Who story, and thus perhaps was rather over indulgent. I suppose one could argue they were entitled to a little over indulgence, but still once the emotional aspect of the story has passed i do think that is largely what your left with.

Don't get me wrong, there are individual moments I love, the scene with Rose and ten especially, but the overall story left me cold once I saw it with a little emotional distance.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

it doesn't want to go?

I must say though, in seriousness, I'm not sure I have seen that many threads on this topic, to be fair, but maybe I just missed all the others. I'm sure it was discussed a lot at the time, but I don't recall much discussion since.


Anyway, at the time it aired, the last Tennant line did bother me a little, it just didn't sit right with me for reasons i couldn't quite put my finger on.

I definitely don't think there was an malicious attempt by RTD to put people off the next Doctor, as nebo says the man is a lifelong fan of the show and remains one to this day, however perhaps they weren't the best choice of words in terms of getting people to embrace the new Doctor either. I think it was fortunate that Smith made such a strong entrance himself, because i think his job was made harder by having Tennant's Doctor seemingly so reluctant to regenerate right down to the bitter end in my view. I think I would perhaps have personally preferred him to embrace his regeneration at the last.

It's interesting how ones perception of a story over time can change as well, at the time this went out I really liked the second half of the story, but when I saw it again over Christmas, I was surprised how little I enjoyed it. I had a lengthy debate on twitter with a few other forum members, and smiddlehurst made a point that made my problem with the story click in to place: it's closing segment was more about Tennant and RTD's departure than a Doctor Who story, and thus perhaps was rather over indulgent. I suppose one could argue they were entitled to a little over indulgence, but still once the emotional aspect of the story has passed i do think that is largely what your left with.

Don't get me wrong, there are individual moments I love, the scene with Rose and ten especially, but the overall story left me cold once I saw it with a little emotional distance.

I'm the opposite. I was not taken with it when it was first aired, but since then it has grown on me. I love the philosophical aspects of Doctor Who and it was interesting how the Doctor himself deals with the regeneration. It was also the first time that the Doctor did not regenerate with anyone around him, so maybe he was just more truthful. Patrick Troughton's doctor did not want to go either, it was just portrayed in a different manner. I also think that the Doctor really thought he was going to die, after that thread had gone, he went around to see all the humans that have been so important to him. Yes it was indulgence, but to me it indicated both RTD's and David's love for the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZaVlwEvcUQ (my favourite).

Edit: .. and I stand by my former point. Done to death, I also fail to see how Tennant's last scene can make Matt Smith into your favourite Doctor. Indeed why mention the new Doctor at all. It's like saying that you didn't like Colin Baker's final scene, which is the reason why you liked the seventh Doctor. If you look at some of these posts dispassionately (neither Matt nor David were my favourite Doctors), then you can see that people use single scenes as justifications why they did/or did not like a doctor. I don't judge a Doctor by one scene (which is why I love Colin Baker, despite his beginning scene).

Edit 2: the above refers to the OP's post, not Muttley's

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

I'm the opposite. I was not taken with it when it was first aired, but since then it has grown on me. I love the philosophical aspects of Doctor Who and it was interesting how the Doctor himself deals with the regeneration. It was also the first time that the Doctor did not regenerate with anyone around him, so maybe he was just more truthful. Patrick Troughton's doctor did not want to go either, it was just portrayed in a different manner. I also think that the Doctor really thought he was going to die, after that thread had gone, he went around to see all the humans that have been so important to him. Yes it was indulgence, but to me it indicated both RTD's and David's love for the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZaVlwEvcUQ (my favourite).

yes, your right, but I think the difference in circumstances made a big difference, plus I always tend to remember the gentle sort of courage with which he said his farewells to Jamie and Zoe.

I agree that RTD and Tennant both loved the show a great deal, but nonetheless I do feel looking back the angle they took was misstep.

It's interesting how perceptions around a story change over time, though. I always remember being quite lukewarm about Gridlock first time out, but now it's a high point of series 3 for me.

[andy1231]

I've never understood why some people hate the way the tenth Doctor left. i thought it was perfectly in keeping with his character. Of all the Doctors, I always thought he was the most "human". He liked that particular incarnation of himself, so why wouldn't he say "I don't want to go" He didn't say "I don't want to die". He was quite willing on several occasions to give his life to save others. As for the long drawn out ending where he visited his past companions, I found it very moving. Love the idea of the Nobles becoming wealthy, liked the idea that Micky and Martha were married and to see Rose once more as she was before she met the Doctor was nice. All in all I really enjoyed this ending.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by andy1231

I've never understood why some people hate the way the tenth Doctor left. i thought it was perfectly in keeping with his character. Of all the Doctors, I always thought he was the most "human". He liked that particular incarnation of himself, so why wouldn't he say "I don't want to go" He didn't say "I don't want to die". He was quite willing on several occasions to give his life to save others. As for the long drawn out ending where he visited his past companions, I found it very moving. Love the idea of the Nobles becoming wealthy, liked the idea that Micky and Martha were married and to see Rose once more as she was before she met the Doctor was nice. All in all I really enjoyed this ending.

This is far and away my least favourite moment, it feels like "lets stick the two rejects together as I can't think of anything else interesting to do with them". Was truly a clanger of a moment for me, even first time around....

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by andy1231

I've never understood why some people hate the way the tenth Doctor left. i thought it was perfectly in keeping with his character. Of all the Doctors, I always thought he was the most "human". He liked that particular incarnation of himself, so why wouldn't he say "I don't want to go" He didn't say "I don't want to die". He was quite willing on several occasions to give his life to save others. As for the long drawn out ending where he visited his past companions, I found it very moving. Love the idea of the Nobles becoming wealthy, liked the idea that Micky and Martha were married and to see Rose once more as she was before she met the Doctor was nice. All in all I really enjoyed this ending.

Personally, I don't think it was really. You see how The Doctor reacted to his supposed impending 'Regeneration' in Journey's End, that is more along the lines of how I envisaged him reacting and to my mind was closer to what it should have been, tagged onto the end of an episode rather than moping around for nearly 20 minutes. The 10th Doctor's character went out of the window in The Specials and though he was overly emotional at times he had faced death several times during his Era and not acted at all like he did in The End Of Time.

For me personally it was out of character for The Doctor's basic character as a whole. As has been mentioned, The Doctor has faced regeneration many times over the years and not once did he blub nor did he question the fact he was going to regenerate. I don't think this is down to each Doctor's different character traits, I think it is The Doctor's basic nature to face each coming regeneration with dignity.
Despite my misgiving's over the Ninth Doctor, even he went out with some respectability.

For me, what happened after the Regeneration seemed to really contrast all that, it felt as if his worries were a storm in a teacup. He never really made any passing mention to the fact he'd lost his 10th Incarnation and his immediate eccentricity in his new incarnation made the whole thing seem all the more bizarre!

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by daveyboy7472

Personally, I don't think it was really. You see how The Doctor reacted to his supposed impending 'Regeneration' in Journey's End, that is more along the lines of how I envisaged him reacting and to my mind was closer to what it should have been, tagged onto the end of an episode rather than moping around for nearly 20 minutes. The 10th Doctor's character went out of the window in The Specials and though he was overly emotional at times he had faced death several times during his Era and not acted at all like he did in The End Of Time.

For me personally it was out of character for The Doctor's basic character as a whole. As has been mentioned, The Doctor has faced regeneration many times over the years and not once did he blub nor did he question the fact he was going to regenerate. I don't think this is down to each Doctor's different character traits, I think it is The Doctor's basic nature to face each coming regeneration with dignity.
Despite my misgiving's over the Ninth Doctor, even he went out with some respectability.

For me, what happened after the Regeneration seemed to really contrast all that, it felt as if his worries were a storm in a teacup. He never really made any passing mention to the fact he'd lost his 10th Incarnation and his immediate eccentricity in his new incarnation made the whole thing seem all the more bizarre!

I thought that made perfect sense, given that the 10th incarnation said he was a new person.

As mentioned above, one of the reasons why the Doctor may have reacted differently is that a) he had been facing real death with no regeneration and it was foretold (very much like dying of a terminal illness), and b) that he was actually alone and that it was a slow regeneration. What was he supposed to do? Sit in his chair and wait for it to happen. He also just lost Gallifrey and the Master again, so he was far more vulnerable than in previous incarnations. I think it's like that, sometimes if you react very quickly, you do stupid things (e.g. jumping in front of a car to rescue someone). If you have time to think about it, then it becomes far more difficult and introspective. I know the 9th Doctor had a bit of time to think about it as well, but a) it was still a lot faster and b) he had a companion there. He also was riddled with guilt.

With regards to a basic character, I don't see that, but maybe that's another reason why Colin Baker never worried me. Each incarnation is different, and even the idea that the Doctor is a pacifist does not hold up.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Edit 2: the above refers to the OP's post, not Muttley's

I was going to say this confused me greatly at first...

[DoctorQui]

I wasn't impressed by the Specials personally, but the regeneration was ok and in keeping with today's tv expectations.

I just hated the 'I don't want to go!' line!

[Mystical123]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Except it totally alienated those whose fave Doctor was 10.

Except it didn't for all of those - 10 is still my favourite Doctor, I hated the specials, thought the regeneration was fine albeit it would have been better a lot earlier or after better specials, and it certainly didn't alienate me from his character or DT's time on the show as a whole. So don't make such sweeping statements as if you're speaking for everyone, because you're not.

Originally Posted by andy1231

As for the long drawn out ending where he visited his past companions, I found it very moving. Love the idea of the Nobles becoming wealthy, liked the idea that Micky and Martha were married and to see Rose once more as she was before she met the Doctor was nice. All in all I really enjoyed this ending.

I agree with all of that, those last 10 minutes redeemed the whole previous year for me. I liked how we got to see Donna happy, and that Sarah Jane was included. I quite like the idea of Mickey and Martha being married, and I don't think at all that it was just thrown together because RTD didn't know what to do with them, it was a different follow-up to how Journey's End left Martha because Freema wasn't available to actually do Torchwood. I think the idea of 2 former companions together, still doing their bit for planet Earth is really nice, the only bit I didn't like was Martha carrying a gun after it was emphasised in The Sontaren Strategem that she wasn't doing so while working for UNIT. Plus UNIT had been destroyed, so it's understandable she ended up freelance. I thought the scene with Jack was perfectly in keeping with his character and what had happened in Torchwood, and loved the Doctor finding a way to see Rose again, even though she didn't know him then.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

I thought that made perfect sense, given that the 10th incarnation said he was a new person.

As mentioned above, one of the reasons why the Doctor may have reacted differently is that a) he had been facing real death with no regeneration and it was foretold (very much like dying of a terminal illness), and b) that he was actually alone and that it was a slow regeneration. What was he supposed to do? Sit in his chair and wait for it to happen. He also just lost Gallifrey and the Master again, so he was far more vulnerable than in previous incarnations. I think it's like that, sometimes if you react very quickly, you do stupid things (e.g. jumping in front of a car to rescue someone). If you have time to think about it, then it becomes far more difficult and introspective. I know the 9th Doctor had a bit of time to think about it as well, but a) it was still a lot faster and b) he had a companion there. He also was riddled with guilt.

With regards to a basic character, I don't see that, but maybe that's another reason why Colin Baker never worried me. Each incarnation is different, and even the idea that the Doctor is a pacifist does not hold up.

Maybe but he did mention about a new man walking away after Regeneration so he must have known it was coming.

I guess it's down to interpretation but that's just how I see it. I see how most of The Doctor's have faced death in the past but even the more so called meeker Doctor's like Davison and Troughton didn't act like this. I mean, how many times has The Doctor as a whole faced death nearly every single story and still been prepared to face it with dignity and as I said, that includes the Tenth Doctor.

Look at the Fifth Doctor in Mawdryn Undead, about to lose his ability to Regenerate which was a death sentence in itself considering his lifestyle. Didn't see him acting like Tennant did, he acted quite nobly I thought.