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Court rules UK ISP's must block The Pirate Bay


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Old 13-05-2012, 00:33
jra
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Just as I suspected, I purposely left the "pirates" no wriggle room asking for a YES/NO answer. However, despite that we are having all sort of semantic arguments and plain evasive answers.

Why do so many people think that just because a series/film is shown in another country they have some god given right to demand instant viewing rights in this country. Even if people are willing to pay for something it doesn't give them the right to take it for nothing if the business isn't willing to sell it to them.

If a business or individual offers something for sale then fine but if it isn't for sale or you don't agree with the terms of sale then that's it, you don't get it. What I see in this and many other threads is (a) I'll take whatever I want regardless or (b) give it/sell it to me now on my terms or I will take it regardless.

Now I'm sorry and call me old fashioned but neither of those scenarios are acceptable and if anyone thinks otherwise then they need to take a good look at themselves.
DVDs should have the same content essentially the world over, just released on different dates. After all, that is what regional coding was all about originally, but no, that wasn't enough for the publishers, as the majority of DVDs have different content from region to region and even within regions (e.g. R2 UK, R2 Germany, R2 Scandinavia etc. are all different content wise, excluding language and subtitle tracks). That might explain it.
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Old 17-05-2012, 03:02
Jimmy_McNulty
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tpb has been DDoSd
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Old 17-05-2012, 05:01
Si_Crewe
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Has it?

Seems like the URL doesn't work on my browser now but the website is still up and working perfectly if you access it via other means.


Kinda late to this party but I was thinking about this today and I wondered how much of a reduction to bandwidth usage ISPs will see as a result of the block.

People in big cities might not notice this as much but, living in a small town, I found that my broadband speed was terrific 4 or 5 years ago and that over the last year it's slowed down dramatically to the point where it's often simply not worth going on the internet in the afternoon or early evening because it's so slow and unreliable.
I can only assume this is due to the number of other people using the available bandwidth at these peak times.

Incidentally, part of my job involves revising hefty engineering manuals (which I do from home) and then sending them off to far-flung bits of the world.
If I send them at this time they only take a few seconds to be sent at data speeds of up to 2mb/sec whereas if I try the same thing at 5pm I get speeds of around 4kb/sec (yes, really) and it can take hours but is likely to fail and/or corrupt the document.

Anyway, it just occurs to me that if the country is full of kids downloading Jedward albums and video games and a large proportion of them can be stopped by a block on TBP then ISPs will not feel as compelled to continue to upgrade their services since the load on it won't be as great.

I know some people will say "Yeah but everybody knows how to get around the ISP block" but I'm not sure that's the case.
Sure, there's a number of people who know how to do it but I'm constantly amazed by the number of non tech-savvy people who admit to using TPB for casual downloading even though they're, basically, clueless about computers and I'm sure the block will discourage a lot of those people.
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Old 17-05-2012, 06:58
Stig
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I know some people will say "Yeah but everybody knows how to get around the ISP block" but I'm not sure that's the case.
Sure, there's a number of people who know how to do it but I'm constantly amazed by the number of non tech-savvy people who admit to using TPB for casual downloading even though they're, basically, clueless about computers and I'm sure the block will discourage a lot of those people.
I agree. I think the block is like a 'chain link fence' in that it is not a serious barrier, but enough to make people think twice about crossing it.

Slightly off topic; who is your ISP? It might be worth asking them to upgrade your package to one with a better contention ratio. Normally a call telling them you are thinking of moving to another ISP does the trick!
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Old 17-05-2012, 08:48
Jittlov
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Has it?

Seems like the URL doesn't work on my browser now but the website is still up and working perfectly if you access it via other means.


Kinda late to this party but I was thinking about this today and I wondered how much of a reduction to bandwidth usage ISPs will see as a result of the block.

People in big cities might not notice this as much but, living in a small town, I found that my broadband speed was terrific 4 or 5 years ago and that over the last year it's slowed down dramatically to the point where it's often simply not worth going on the internet in the afternoon or early evening because it's so slow and unreliable.
I can only assume this is due to the number of other people using the available bandwidth at these peak times.

Incidentally, part of my job involves revising hefty engineering manuals (which I do from home) and then sending them off to far-flung bits of the world.
If I send them at this time they only take a few seconds to be sent at data speeds of up to 2mb/sec whereas if I try the same thing at 5pm I get speeds of around 4kb/sec (yes, really) and it can take hours but is likely to fail and/or corrupt the document.

Anyway, it just occurs to me that if the country is full of kids downloading Jedward albums and video games and a large proportion of them can be stopped by a block on TBP then ISPs will not feel as compelled to continue to upgrade their services since the load on it won't be as great.

I know some people will say "Yeah but everybody knows how to get around the ISP block" but I'm not sure that's the case.
Sure, there's a number of people who know how to do it but I'm constantly amazed by the number of non tech-savvy people who admit to using TPB for casual downloading even though they're, basically, clueless about computers and I'm sure the block will discourage a lot of those people.
The Pirate Bay is just one of a great many torrent sites, and to suggest that blocking access to it will curb internet downloading is the same as suggesting that blocking just one popular porn site will make a dent in stamping out internet porn in general. It wont, there are just too many alternatives.
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Old 17-05-2012, 09:12
Si_Crewe
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Slightly off topic; who is your ISP? It might be worth asking them to upgrade your package to one with a better contention ratio. Normally a call telling them you are thinking of moving to another ISP does the trick!
I'm with BT.
My broadband speed here was pretty awful (compared to big cities) for years but I guess that's the price you pay for living in a rural area.
BT have upgraded it, just recently, so I guess they're not being totally complacent about it.

I was involved in campaigning to get broadband to our part of the world and attended meetings with various ISPs and the authorities.
As it was explained to us, there's a single fibre-optic trunk-line serving the entire SW of Scotland, running from Carlisle to Stranraer and, basically, they set the connection speed simply by estimating the number of customers and then dividing up the available bandwidth by that number.

As a result, they might have originally assumed there'd be, say, 10k customers and could therefore offer speeds of up to 512kb/sec but then, over the years, as more and more people have signed up, that's proven to be impossible so they've been forced to upgrade the trunk-line, speeds have improved again and now they're just gonna wait and see whether the number of customers increases to the point where another upgrade will be required.

The Pirate Bay is just one of a great many torrent sites, and to suggest that blocking access to it will curb internet downloading is the same as suggesting that blocking just one popular porn site will make a dent in stamping out internet porn in general. It wont, there are just too many alternatives.
Oh, I agree.

Stuff like this is just a "gesture" to getting rid of piracy but I'm sure it WILL have some effect on internet traffic and that's only ever going to be a good thing for ISPs (especially in rural areas, where available bandwidth is marginal) so it's not surprising they were happy to shrug their shoulders and go along with it because it'll be helping reduce the load on their systems.
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Old 17-05-2012, 09:39
Stig
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The Pirate Bay is just one of a great many torrent sites, and to suggest that blocking access to it will curb internet downloading is the same as suggesting that blocking just one popular porn site will make a dent in stamping out internet porn in general. It wont, there are just too many alternatives.
It's about precedent, both legally and psychologically.

For example, if people read of one person being convicted of using a mobile phone while driving, it shows that it is viewed as unacceptable, and some people will think twice before doing it themselves.
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Old 17-05-2012, 10:07
anniebrion
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.org is now back working with BT
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Old 17-05-2012, 10:08
Jittlov
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It's about precedent, both legally and psychologically.

For example, if people read of one person being convicted of using a mobile phone while driving, it shows that it is viewed as unacceptable, and some people will think twice before doing it themselves.
It could have the opposite effect, since humans in general don't like being told what they can and can't do.

It's illegal to break the speed limit (and some might argue much more dangerous than file sharing), yet there are websites dedicated to telling people the location of every speed camera in the UK.

Why do these sites exist if not to help people break the law and why aren't they being blocked?
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Old 17-05-2012, 10:35
fmradiotuner1
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TPB seemed to be down yesterday but is going now.
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Old 17-05-2012, 10:56
Si_Crewe
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It could have the opposite effect, since humans in general don't like being told what they can and can't do.

It's illegal to break the speed limit (and some might argue much more dangerous than file sharing), yet there are websites dedicated to telling people the location of every speed camera in the UK.

Why do these sites exist if not to help people break the law and why aren't they being blocked?
Erm, I'm not sure that makes sense.

Do you think people break the speed limit BECAUSE it's illegal or do you think they travel at a given speed because they have somewhere that they need to be regardless of whether it's legal or not?

That being the case, if cars were fitted with some gadget to stop them breaking the speed limit, do you think that the majority of people would seek to disable it or do you think they'd just bend over and accept it grudgingly?
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Old 17-05-2012, 11:15
Jittlov
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Erm, I'm not sure that makes sense.

Do you think people break the speed limit BECAUSE it's illegal or do you think they travel at a given speed because they have somewhere that they need to be regardless of whether it's legal or not?

That being the case, if cars were fitted with some gadget to stop them breaking the speed limit, do you think that the majority of people would seek to disable it or do you think they'd just bend over and accept it grudgingly?
ALL drivers know that breaking the speed limit is illegal, yet many choose to ignore that. They see speed cameras as an inconvenience, and set out to avoid them.

Accident rates may be cut dramatically by, as you say, fitting a gadget to every car limiting it's top speed to 70mph, you could even go so far as to install speed cameras in every street in the country.

Of course if that ever happened there would be public outrage, even though it would only really affect those who broke the law.

In many ways it's the same with the internet, most people obey the law but dislike being told what they can and can't do while they are online.
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Old 17-05-2012, 11:37
Si_Crewe
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ALL drivers know that breaking the speed limit is illegal, yet many choose to ignore that. They see speed cameras as an inconvenience, and set out to avoid them.
Erm, maybe so but you suggested that people deliberately break the law simply because it's there; because they "don't like being told what to do".

I disagree.

People break laws because they think it's in their best interests to do so.
They break speed limits because they need to get somewhere more quickly.
They download stuff because it's cheaper than buying it.

In the same way as a campaign to deter people from speeding WILL make some people decide not to speed, a campaign to deter copyright theft WILL deter some people.

Do you think, for example, that if speed limits were abolished then people would actually drive slower and the roads would be a safer place?

Or do you think people would drive faster?
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Old 17-05-2012, 13:08
flagpole
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Erm, maybe so but you suggested that people deliberately break the law simply because it's there; because they "don't like being told what to do".

I disagree.

People break laws because they think it's in their best interests to do so.
They break speed limits because they need to get somewhere more quickly.
They download stuff because it's cheaper than buying it.

In the same way as a campaign to deter people from speeding WILL make some people decide not to speed, a campaign to deter copyright theft WILL deter some people.

Do you think, for example, that if speed limits were abolished then people would actually drive slower and the roads would be a safer place?

Or do you think people would drive faster?
logically the analogy is flawed. speed is a quantitative issue and downloading is qualitative.

the TPB is back up btw.
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Old 17-05-2012, 13:19
Neda_Turk
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It's still working just fine on Sky.
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:08
Fried Kickin
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TPB have added a new IP address,so blocked users can easily access the site once more .. not that it was particularly difficult to access mind
Full story .. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-s...ckades-120522/
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:21
johnnybgoode83
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TPB have added a new IP address,so blocked users can easily access the site once more .. not that it was particularly difficult to access mind
Full story .. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-s...ckades-120522/
It's all a pointless game of whack-a-mole. Block a site and either it pops up again in another form or a replacement pops up. Think of the quality movies/music/TV Shows that could have been if they didn't waste so many millions in this way.
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:32
zx50
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TPB have added a new IP address,so blocked users can easily access the site once more .. not that it was particularly difficult to access mind
Full story .. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-s...ckades-120522/
I think the industry was just bothered about the majority not being able to access it. They'll know that the minority who are in the know will be able to get round the block. It's just the majority that they'll be bothered about.
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:45
zx50
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It's all a pointless game of whack-a-mole. Block a site and either it pops up again in another form or a replacement pops up. Think of the quality movies/music/TV Shows that could have been if they didn't waste so many millions in this way.
They're so unbelievably thick that they can't see what the consequences are though. All they see is what they want and de hell with how many millions it takes. They're a bunch of absolute muppets!
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:47
flagpole
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so we are saying after the block tpb will be available on http://194.71.107.80/

i wonder what it will take to block that. a new court order? or is the original court order that the ISPs must play cat and mouse with the innovative tpb?
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Old 23-05-2012, 15:01
johnnybgoode83
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They're so unbelievably thick that they can't see what the consequences are though. All they see is what they want and de hell with how many millions it takes. They're a bunch of absolute muppets!
I think the problem is that the people making the decisions are those who didn't grow up with the Internet. To them, the Internet is something that is full of kids and troublemakers instead of a vital infrastructure that will help all industries develop and flourish.
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Old 23-05-2012, 15:07
flagpole
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I think the problem is that the people making the decisions are those who didn't grow up with the Internet. To them, the Internet is something that is full of kids and troublemakers instead of a vital infrastructure that will help all industries develop and flourish.
i think you are probably right. i think the people making these decisions may not use the internet at all. certainly not appreciate that the internet is a continuation of real space.
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Old 23-05-2012, 15:53
mossy2103
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i think you are probably right. i think the people making these decisions may not use the internet at all. certainly not appreciate that the internet is a continuation of real space.
I n truth, the people making these decisions are High Court judges, highly learned and experienced legal people who look at the framework of the relevant laws and any legal precedents.
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Old 23-05-2012, 15:57
Stig
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We've had at least one thread where a user hasn't been able to access TPB, so how many other people will just give up trying?

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1664507

So, one could argue that the block is working, even if only to a minor extent.
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Old 23-05-2012, 15:59
johnnybgoode83
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We've had at least one thread where a user hasn't been able to access TPB, so how many other people will just give up trying?

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1664507

So, one could argue that the block is working, even if only to a minor extent.
Yeah, and they have been directed to other sources of torrents.
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