[gulliverfoyle]

good luck to him

i love old skool diplomancy

prince phillip, silivio berlisconi

I salute you

the PC thought police cant stop you having a opinion and sticking to it

they cant erase history

like the "European civil war" and guy gibson dog

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...U-serious.html

[Keiō Line]

Originally Posted by Starpuss

My dad hated the Germans too. All of them. Is it rational? No. But he was entitled to his opinion. As is Patrick Moore.

An entitlement to an opinion does not make the opinion right, nor does it make it acceptable that it be said. In the case of Sir Patricks comments, they are excusable given his experiences.

[pickwick]

Originally Posted by Starpuss

My dad hated the Germans too. All of them. Is it rational? No. But he was entitled to his opinion. As is Patrick Moore.

Sure, but neither of them are/ were entitled to have that opinion without people judging them for it or challenging them.

[pickwick]

Originally Posted by MidnightFalcon

People are far too judgemental these days. Context is everything. Judgement without empathy is simply another form of ignorance.

You sound very judgemental about people being judgemental about things

[Starpuss]

Originally Posted by Keiō Line

An enitlement to an opinion does not make it right, nor does it make it accepable that it be said. In the case of Sir Patricks comments, they are excusable given his experinces.

I didn't say it was right Opinions, as DS illustrates daily, are often wrong. I think it is acceptable to express such an opinion. If he starts up a society trying to get support to harm Germans then that is unacceptable but an opinion is just that. One man's point of view.

[MidnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by pickwick

You sound very judgemental about people being judgemental about things

When in Rome.......

(Oh God, Did I just drag the Italians into this.........?)

[cultureman]

Patrick Moore's narcissism perfectly illustrates the difference between being clever and being wise.

[Starpuss]

Originally Posted by pickwick

Sure, but neither of them are/ were entitled to have that opinion without people judging them for it or challenging them.

Challenging yes. I am not so big on judging others. I am not so perfect myself.

[Smokeychan1]

Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40

Is that supposed to be the excuse for being ignorant? Had she fought it would have been okay to express hate for a nation? I think not.

I'm torn over the content in this article, but I must say Abba, you appear to share with Patrick the same kind of one-dimensional thinking that doesn't allow for humans to be less than perfect. It's hard with text sometimes, so forgive me if the hate, anger and lack of tolerance I am reading in your replies are not something you feel.

Due to what he has been deprived from in his life, I may overlook his irrational hatred of another nation, but coupled with his "England is great", "If we still ruled the world" hyperbole (which, if we were using a scale for offensiveness, I would definitely rank equally with the the Kraut comment, if not more so), I can't help but feel that Patrick has written his own epitaph.

@Hugh (?), I am sure you will get to see the headline you desire, but in this article, the title of Mr Little Englander may be more apt.

[rozafa]

Why is any of this a shock. He is hardly famed for his PC views. Patrick Moore has always been very right wing and has supported many far right parties in the past.

Quoted from Wikipedia.

..Moore is noted for his conservative political views. In the 1970s, he was Chairman of the anti-immigration United Country Party, a position he held until the party was absorbed by the New Britain Party in 1980. He campaigned for Edmund Iremonger in 1979, as both men agreed that the French and Germans were not to be trusted.[56] Iremonger and Moore gave up political campaigning after deciding that they were Thatcherites.[56] Moore later campaigned on behalf of Douglas Denny (UKIP) for the Chichester constituency in 2001.[57] A Tory voter for many years, he now remains a supporter and patron of the eurosceptic UK Independence Party.[58] He briefly supported the Liberal Party in the 1950s, though condemned the Liberal Democrats, stating that he believed they could alter their position radically and "would happily join up with the BNP or the Socialist Workers Party... if [by doing so] they could win a few extra votes."[57] He has also stated his admiration for the Official Monster Raving Loony Party,[59] and wrote in his autobiography that Liechtenstein had the best political system in the world.[60] Moore was a critic of George W. Bush's Iraq War,[61] and has stated that "the world was a safer place when Ronald Reagan was in the White House".[62]
Proudly declaring himself to be English (rather than British) with "not the slightest to integrate". Moore denies being ultra-right despite asking "can anyone please tell me where he [Enoch Powell] went wrong?",[63] citing his opposition to blood sports and capital punishment.[59] He devoted an entire chapter ("The Weak Arm of the Law") of his autobiography to denouncing modern British society, particularly "motorist-hunting" policemen, sentencing policy, as well as the Race Relations Act, Sex Discrimination Act and the "Thought Police / Politically Correct Brigade".[64] He later wrote that "homosexuals are mainly responsible for the spreading of AIDS (the Garden of Eden is home of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve)".[65]
In an interview with Radio Times, he provocatively asserted that the BBC was being "ruined by women", commenting that: "The trouble is that the BBC now is run by women and it shows: soap operas, cooking, quizzes, kitchen-sink plays. You wouldn’t have had that in the golden days." In response, a BBC spokeswoman described Moore as being one of TV's best-loved figures and remarked that his "forthright" views were "what we all love about him".[66] In his June 2002 appearance on Room 101 he banished female news readers into Room 101.[67]
"I may be accused of being a dinosaur, but I would remind you that dinosaurs ruled the Earth for a very long time."
—Moore responds to those who criticise his Euro-sceptic and right-wing beliefs.[68]
He is an opponent of fox hunting and blood sports.[69] Though not a vegetarian, he has stated that he holds "a deep contempt for people who go out to kill merely to amuse themselves."[70] He has been a lifelong animal lover, actively supporting many animal welfare charities (particularly Cats Protection). He has a particular affinity for cats and has stated that "a catless house is a soulless house".[71]

[zx50]

Wrong thread.

[JamesC81]

It's not such a big deal when you consider the alternative as in Obama who hates the British because of what his father went through and he's the most powerful man in the world

[Abbasolutely 40]

Originally Posted by Smokeychan1

I'm torn over the content in this article, but I must say Abba, you appear to share with Patrick the same kind of one-dimensional thinking that doesn't allow for humans to be less than perfect. It's hard with text sometimes, so forgive me if the hate, anger and lack of tolerance I am reading in your replies are not something you feel.Due to what he has been deprived from in his life, I may overlook his irrational hatred of another nation, but coupled with his "England is great", "If we still ruled the world" hyperbole (which, if we were using a scale for offensiveness, I would definitely rank equally with the the Kraut comment, if not more so), I can't help but feel that Patrick has written his own epitaph.

@Hugh (?), I am sure you will get to see the headline you desire, but in this article, the title of Mr Little Englander may be more apt.

You have stunned me .Who or what have I expressed hatred for ? I do not tolerate what Moore said and regardless of his experiences I dont think it should have been printed /
But I hate no one ,Yes I feel anger that someone could speak like that about my gentle kind husband and my wonderful and thoughtful children .I hate what he said , not the man and I hate that age is being used to excuse it . And no I dont tolerate hate for a whole nation for any reason ,.

I will now leave the thread , Its actually upset me

[zx50]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

good luck to him

i love old skool diplomancy

prince phillip, silivio berlisconi

I salute you

the PC thought police cant stop you having a opinion and sticking to it

they cant erase history

like the "European civil war" and guy gibson dog

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...U-serious.html

Why call it a European Civil War for? It was a flaming world war. These people are always wanting to change something. They should just leave it as World War II.

[rozafa]

Originally Posted by JamesC81

It's not such a big deal when you consider the alternative as in Obama who hates the British because of what his father went through and he's the most powerful man in the world

No he doesn't. What is your proof? Has Obama spoken to you in confidence because I have never heard of a search that he made saying that he hates the British.

The Camerons and the Obamas seen to get long OK!

[MidnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40

You have stunned me .Who or what have I expressed hatred for ? I do not tolerate what Moore said and regardless of his experiences I dont think it should have been printed /
But I hate no one ,Yes I feel anger that someone could speak like that about my gentle kind husband and my wonderful and thoughtful children .I hate what he said , not the man and I hate that age is being used to excuse it

I will now leave the thread , Its actually upset me

I'm sorry for that.

[dome]

I have no time for the man, I'm certainly not going to hate my Great Grandfather or his people. There is good and bad in all cultures and races.

It was idiot types like him that threw bricks through my g/grandparents windows while their children were fighting in the war for the British.

[Starpuss]

It's just as silly to get all worked up and upset about what one old man says as it is to hate all Germans.

[JamesC81]

Originally Posted by rozafa

No he doesn't. What is your proof? Has Obama spoken to you in confidence because I have never heard of a search that he made saying that he hates the British.

The Camerons and the Obamas seen to get long OK!

Apologies for it being the daily mail but this goes into it. like patrick moore because of the events from the past which shapes his views today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-British.html

[kimindex]

I've known plenty of people who lived through and fought in the war and the vast majority of them could differentiate between Germans as the enemy, Nazis and Germans now.

[pickwick]

Originally Posted by Starpuss

Challenging yes. I am not so big on judging others. I am not so perfect myself.

I'm not perfect either, I admit But everyone judges everyone else all the time. I see you just said "It's just as silly to get all worked up and upset about what one old man says as it is to hate all Germans" - that's judging Abbasolutely, surely.

Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40

You have stunned me .Who or what have I expressed hatred for ? I do not tolerate what Moore said and regardless of his experiences I dont think it should have been printed /
But I hate no one ,Yes I feel anger that someone could speak like that about my gentle kind husband and my wonderful and thoughtful children .I hate what he said , not the man and I hate that age is being used to excuse it . And no I dont tolerate hate for a whole nation for any reason ,.

I will now leave the thread , Its actually upset me

On the off chance you come back in and see this, I totally disagree with Smokeychan - I see no hate, anger or lack of tolerance at all in your posts! All you've said is that suffering in a war doesn't totally excuse racism, which I wouldn't have thought was that controversial.

[pickwick]

Originally Posted by MidnightFalcon

When in Rome.......

(Oh God, Did I just drag the Italians into this.........?)

Don't mention the war!

...Oh.

[Speak-Softly]

Originally Posted by Starpuss

It's just as silly to get all worked up and upset about what one old man says as it is to hate all Germans.

Everybody must sing from the same hymnsheet in this day and age.
Surely you must know that?

It's something of a paradox, as the world becomes more open to people through global communication, differences of opinion are becoming less and less tolerated.

From the article, I'd say PM loved irrationally and hates irrationally.
He's just one person.
The idea that his opinions mustn't be broadcast only really illustrates that people are scared of everybody else around them.
But then that does follow as the world becomes more globalised and individual communities/countries become less united.

They don't trust people not to make a judgement about what he says for themselves.

[MidnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by JamesC81

Apologies for it being the daily mail but this goes into it. like patrick moore because of the events from the past which shapes his views today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-British.html

The difference in Obama's case is that the (alleged) grudge has carried over from a previous generation. He never personally experienced the oppression.

Does this make him worse than Moore?

[Smokeychan1]

Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40

You have stunned me .Who or what have I expressed hatred for ? I do not tolerate what Moore said and regardless of his experiences I dont think it should have been printed /
But I hate no one ,Yes I feel anger that someone could speak like that about my gentle kind husband and my wonderful and thoughtful children .I hate what he said , not the man and I hate that age is being used to excuse it . And no I dont tolerate hate for a whole nation for any reason ,.

I will now leave the thread , Its actually upset me

But no one was speaking about your husband or children were they? It's that personification of a nation and depth of feeling in your reaction that reminds me of Patrick. You're angry and unforgiving about the fact Patrick implied all Germans should be killed, Patrick is angry and unforgiving because Germans killed his fiance. Two sides of the same coin, you know?