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Old 09-11-2004, 00:38
BlackCat99
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Right, hello there. I was looking for a bit of advice about buying a new TV and I thought this would probably be a good place to ask.

This Christmas, we're looking to replace our 6 year-old (okay, it's not ancient, but nevermind) 4:3 model with a shiny new widescreen one. Now, the main problem appears to be the immense choice available, as well my concern over whether or not any new TV we bought now would be compatible with the upcoming HDTV, which I know little about.

I've taken quite a number of factors into account so far, including the following:
- Ratio; obviously I'm looking for widescreen here
- Curvature; flatscreen would certainly be desirable
- Screen Size; not too sure yet, but 28 inches seems to be the norm from what I've seen
- Frequency; 100hz would be preferable as we tend to watch TV from strange angles at times (yes, that sounds freaky)
- Progressive Scanning; obviously this would be lovely, but only the very large and expensive models seem to have this. Does this have any noticable effect on picture quality? Would a lack of this inhibit our reception of HDTV in the future?
- Digital Noise Reduction (DNR); is this a particularly useful feature? It sounds like it is, but again I'm not sure
- Zoom; is this a useful function?
- Sound; we have a brilliant 5.1 speaker system that came with our PC, and we'd like to be able to plug this into the TV when we watch DVDs. We might also potentially want to plug the TV into our hi-fi system. Also, is the electric power (watts) of the sound output an important factor?
- S-Video; one of those sockets would be useful with our camcorder
- Scart; obviously at least 2 sockets on the back, but AV connectors on the front would be helpful as well
- Built-in DVD/VCR players; not desirable, we have perfectly good ones for now
- Built-in Freeview; nuh-uh, we've got Sky Digital
- Price; here's the big one. I'm not sure what my mother's "limit" is, but I doubt she'd want to spend in excess of between £400-£500 at the very most

Obviously, there's a lot to take into account, and it's a fairly serious and expensive purchase, and what I basically would like is any advice on what to look for in terms of specifications and whether or not I need to be concerned about future-proofing issues with HDTV.

Thanks a lot in advance for any help or advice you can give me.

Last edited by BlackCat99 : 09-11-2004 at 01:05. Reason: Added a few more factors
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Old 09-11-2004, 02:55
bobcar
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I would say most important is flatscreen (proper flatscreen not one of the "nearly flatscreens) it makes much more difference than you might think if you've never had one. "Pure" flatscreen looks concave if you're not used to it because you're so used to the curved screen.

Size is always important, despite what your girlfriend might tell you when you're feeling inadequate. However the size needed does depend how far you sit from your set, a 28" from 6 feet away is far bigger than a 40" from 12 feet away.

Progressive, not necessarily recommended on a CRT.

100Hz can be worse as it can have problems especially if you cant turn off DSP. To see if you can see the difference 100Hz makes go and compare the two at a good TV shop.

Digital noise reduction can definitely be a minus if you can't turn it off.

Zoom, they all have this.

5.1, Good but a purpose built home cinema can give better sound than your TV + extra speakers.

Scarts/S-video they all have these. At least 2 scarts with RGB input is good, though a scart switcher can compensate for the lack of this.

Better to get seperate DVD/VCR, if something goes wrong its easier to replace. Combined does take less space of course.

Built in freeview can be useful even if you've got Sky/freeview. It means you can watch digital while recording from Sky. I've got Sky+ but still use a separate freeview tuner sometimes.

For that price forget about HDTV. Think about it again in 3 years plus time.
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Old 09-11-2004, 16:44
BlackCat99
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Thanks very much for the advice. I'm currently looking for the "complete" systems in catalogues and such (i.e. TV, VCR, DVD, Mini Hi-Fi - is this what you meant by a "home cinema"?) but the problem with those is that they don't give you any really technical specifications about what you're getting.

Also, it's decided that the screen will be 28", so Progressive Scanning is out of the picture (no pun intended).

A few questions though:
- Why can 100Hz be worse? What's DSP, and why would I want to turn it off?
- Why would I want to turn the Digital Noise Reduction off?
- Would all modern scart sockets have RGB output, and are you sure about all TVs having S-Video sockets?

Anyway, thanks again for the help
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Old 09-11-2004, 17:02
Davester
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By Home Cinema he means a proper Home Cinema Set including DVD player like this, which is about the only way you can truly experience 5.1 Dolby Digital unless you have a compatible dvd player with all the right cables blah blah blah..
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...clickfrom=name

100hz means the picture is refreshed more often which is often bad for sports events where things move very quickly (you'll see streaking).
Sometimes Digital Noise Reduction can have adverse effects on image quality (depends on the source) and personally i think it degrades the picture so make sure you can turn it on/off as you please.
Not All Scart Sockets will have RGB, which is a shame because the picture produced from 'composite' (non-rgb) scarts is unsatisfactory, so i would insist on buying a 1-scart to 3-scart input lead and using that in AV1.
And Yes, Most TVS now have s-video sockets on the little pulldown at the front.
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Old 09-11-2004, 21:19
BlackCat99
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Thanks for that Davester. Is it possible to get TVs which can switch between 100Hz and 50Hz, like a computer monitor can?

The main problem is that it's very difficult to determine things such as "Can you turn DNR on and off" from a dumbed-down specification in an Argos catalogue...
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Old 09-11-2004, 23:29
Binternet
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The best thing to do is to go down to your local tv shop, you know the ones with all the big expensive TVs in the window, and talk to the person who owns it and he will tell you everything you need to know. Dont go into dixons and ask them as they are thick as pig excriment when it comes to this sort of thing. I asked one of the assistants today what the LCD response rate was today and i just got shown the manual.
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Old 10-11-2004, 01:22
bobcar
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Originally Posted by Binternet
The best thing to do is to go down to your local tv shop, you know the ones with all the big expensive TVs in the window, and talk to the person who owns it and he will tell you everything you need to know. Dont go into dixons and ask them as they are thick as pig excriment when it comes to this sort of thing. I asked one of the assistants today what the LCD response rate was today and i just got shown the manual.
Agreed. Also TV picture quality can be somewhat subjective and you want something you think is good not what someone else tells you is good. Believe your own eyes, of course it cheaper over the internet.
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Old 10-11-2004, 18:51
evansc
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I can speak from experience here. In the last 2 years I have had 4 (yes 4) widescreen tv's. The TV I now have is the Panasonic TX32PL1. My first venture into Widescreen a couple of years ago was the 100hz Panasonic TX28PL10. Great TV; good picture, no flicker, fantastic with static images. As one of the other forum members said; on fast moving (live events) such as sport; for example football; you get what is called smearing and digital artifacts. With 100HZ the picture is infact a computer generated image of the true analog picture. Sometime this picture does not look real with 100HZ. Ie. on scenes that have grass in them, you sometimes do not notice the different textures, instead it all looks the same, ie. a mass of green. I sent this TV back and went for the Panasonic TX28PL1 (50hz). Again good picture but a bit too much flicker and there was a fault with one of the 'pixels' that make up the picture. Sent this back and went for the Sony KV28FXU (50hz) widescreen. Good picture at first but too much red colour bleed. This was the worst one out of the lot. Now for the good news. I now have the Panasonic TX32PL1 (50hz) widescreen. Awesome picture, does not notice flicker, had this for nearly 2 years now. Sound is great but have linked it to my Technics amp. It has front Av inputs for S-video and compostite, 2 rear scrarts (1 RGB and 1 S-video) and outputs for your amplifier. They do not make this model anymore, it has now been replaced by the TX32PS1. My brother has this TV and it is as just as good as mine, if not better. Should be able to get this for around £500. Hope this helps. My advice steer clear of 100HZ, the 50HZ picture is more natural.
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Old 10-11-2004, 21:10
BlackCat99
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Well, my mother now seems to have turned her attention to those TV/VCR/DVD/Mini Hi-Fi combinations that you get from catalogues. The problem with those seems to be that they generally seem to come with low-specification equipment. On the other hand, of course, they're much cheaper, and her absolute limit for all four is £600, which kind of limits my options for getting a superior telly.

Last edited by BlackCat99 : 10-11-2004 at 21:29.
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Old 11-11-2004, 02:52
bobcar
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
Well, my mother now seems to have turned her attention to those TV/VCR/DVD/Mini Hi-Fi combinations that you get from catalogues. The problem with those seems to be that they generally seem to come with low-specification equipment. On the other hand, of course, they're much cheaper, and her absolute limit for all four is £600, which kind of limits my options for getting a superior telly.
Anything in the catalogues is massively overpriced especially if its one of the "interest free credit" type. A quick (2 mins) look on google shows a 28" Sony Vega flatscreen for £350.00 including postage, you can get a Panny E55 DVDR (recordable DVD not just playback) for around £180. Thats £530.00 leaving £70.00 for a mini Hi-fi. All of which will be much better quality than the rubbish she will get in her catalogue. Getting a DVD player and separate VCR rather than the DVDR will be even cheaper (£70.00 total) though not as good.

If you (she) must get a combi then a Bush "28" flatscreen TV/DVD/VCR off the net costs £430.00 and will probably be as good or better than she can get from the catalogue.
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Old 11-11-2004, 16:45
BlackCat99
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It's not a problem buying the items separately, as long as (in her words) it's "a good deal".

I never considered a DVD recorder before. It would obviously be brilliant, but they're rather expensive and I assume that DVDR discs are relatively expensive, and even more so when you consider that they can't be recorded on more than once in the same way as a video cassette? I also don't understand the fus with the DVD+R and DVD-R formats...

By the way, thanks very much for all the help you've given me so far, it's been much appreciated.
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Old 11-11-2004, 17:23
BlackCat99
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They do not make this model anymore, it has now been replaced by the TX32PS1.
All I can find now is the TX32PM1C, which I presume is equally good
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Old 11-11-2004, 17:46
bobcar
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
It's not a problem buying the items separately, as long as (in her words) it's "a good deal".

I never considered a DVD recorder before. It would obviously be brilliant, but they're rather expensive and I assume that DVDR discs are relatively expensive, and even more so when you consider that they can't be recorded on more than once in the same way as a video cassette? I also don't understand the fus with the DVD+R and DVD-R formats...

By the way, thanks very much for all the help you've given me so far, it's been much appreciated.
DVD-R disks are around 50p for a good quality one. RAM or RW are more expensive but of course can be re-recorded. If you've got Sky then you can't get a decent recording on VHS whereas a DVD can be almost indistinguishable from the original depending on recording time. If you don't want to use the recording in another DVD player I'd recommend the Panny E55 at about £180.00 (it uses RAM (not very compatible) hence the proviso).

Also freeview is still worth it if you have Sky because you can still watch a good quality picture whilst recording from Sky.
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Old 11-11-2004, 17:59
BlackCat99
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I assume you mean the DMRE55EBS when you say "E55"?

By the way, the TX32PM1C is graded "C" for sound, video and connections (as the name implies), does that really mean anything?

Last edited by BlackCat99 : 11-11-2004 at 18:34.
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Old 11-11-2004, 20:50
BlackCat99
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Right, it looks like we might go for the Panasonic TX28PM1C Television with the Panasonic DMRE55EBS DVD Recorder. My final (hopefully) questions are, therefore:

- Can a DVD Recorder play out Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, like a normal DVD Player, if a suitable amplifier is attached?
- Can a DVD-RAM system play back movie DVDs properly, like a normal DVD Player?
- Are there any disadvantages to DVD Recorders that I might not have thought of?
- Does the "C" rating of the Television (as opposed to "B" or "A") mean that I should beware?
- Am I likely to notice flicker with this Television, as evansc did with the older model (TX28PL1)?

Also, any general reviews of either the TV or the DVD Recorder would be much appreciated.

Last edited by BlackCat99 : 11-11-2004 at 21:07.
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Old 12-11-2004, 01:12
bobcar
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
Right, it looks like we might go for the Panasonic TX28PM1C Television with the Panasonic DMRE55EBS DVD Recorder. My final (hopefully) questions are, therefore:

- Can a DVD Recorder play out Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, like a normal DVD Player, if a suitable amplifier is attached?
- Can a DVD-RAM system play back movie DVDs properly, like a normal DVD Player?
- Are there any disadvantages to DVD Recorders that I might not have thought of?
- Does the "C" rating of the Television (as opposed to "B" or "A") mean that I should beware?
- Am I likely to notice flicker with this Television, as evansc did with the older model (TX28PL1)?

Also, any general reviews of either the TV or the DVD Recorder would be much appreciated.
The E55 has 5.1 out. Most others do but I don't know if they all do. Note it won't record 5.1, none of them will (well reasonably priced anyway).
No problem playing back movies, all DVD recorders do that.
I don't think its a case of beware, a C rating is average which means you should still get a good picture. I would think the ratings would compare with other 28" pure flat screens so there'll be a big improvement compared to non flatscreen pictures. I don't have any personal experience of this TV so can't recommend it or not, I would think it unlikely you'd notice flicker (unless you sit a foot away from it).
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Old 12-11-2004, 08:46
evansc
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
Right, it looks like we might go for the Panasonic TX28PM1C Television with the Panasonic DMRE55EBS DVD Recorder. My final (hopefully) questions are, therefore:

- Can a DVD Recorder play out Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, like a normal DVD Player, if a suitable amplifier is attached?
- Can a DVD-RAM system play back movie DVDs properly, like a normal DVD Player?
- Are there any disadvantages to DVD Recorders that I might not have thought of?
- Does the "C" rating of the Television (as opposed to "B" or "A") mean that I should beware?
- Am I likely to notice flicker with this Television, as evansc did with the older model (TX28PL1)?

Also, any general reviews of either the TV or the DVD Recorder would be much appreciated.
Good choice on both the TV and DVD player. You will not be disappointed. Yes a DVD recorder can play DD 5.1 as long as your amp is also DD 5.1.

Yes a DVD RAM system can play back movies properly.

No disadvantages to having a DVD recorder.

The 'C' in TX28PM1C is nothing significant. It is not a 'rating' or 'class' or anything like that, just a model no. As for the flicker, some people are more prone to noticing it than others. You should be fine, the TX28PM1C is the very latest model.
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Old 12-11-2004, 19:58
BlackCat99
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Originally Posted by evansc
The 'C' in TX28PM1C is nothing significant. It is not a 'rating' or 'class' or anything like that, just a model no.
Okay, you're right there, but I am right about the ratings system, look here for an example: http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/453_194220.html

(Click on the "Full Details" tab)
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Old 12-11-2004, 20:10
ney
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Make sure its a widescreen TV you get with Nicam Stereo or Dolby sound and Teletext. I see Asda are selling a Pacific 28inch Nicam Strero widescreen TV fot just under £180 with Fasttext and 2 scarts is it any good dose anyone know.

Darren
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Old 13-11-2004, 11:20
evansc
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
Okay, you're right there, but I am right about the ratings system, look here for an example: http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/453_194220.html

(Click on the "Full Details" tab)
Not seen that before. Must be a new thing comet have introduced. Anyway, the TX28PM1 is not reviewed in What TV and Video Magazine. Not when I checked yesterday on their website anyway. The TX28PL1 was and they gave it a 'stonking' review!.
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Old 13-11-2004, 11:23
evansc
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Originally Posted by ney
Make sure its a widescreen TV you get with Nicam Stereo or Dolby sound and Teletext. I see Asda are selling a Pacific 28inch Nicam Strero widescreen TV fot just under £180 with Fasttext and 2 scarts is it any good dose anyone know.

Darren
That's what he is getting; at least with the TX28PM1 anyway. Pacific are a cheapo make, you get what you pay for.
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Old 13-11-2004, 14:44
BlackCat99
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Okay, now I'm torn... it's Panasonic TX28PM1C vs. Philips PW286518C.

The Panasonic has "Stunning Colour" and "Fantastic Picture", as well as a round S-Video connector on the front for the camcorder, though it has "Flat, Disappointing Sound". It's also more physically attractive (if you get my meaning) than the Philips, and is the same brand as the DVD Recorder that we're definately goint to go for.

The Philips has "Miraculous Picture" and "Very Good Sound", as well as numerous positive reviews on various websites, though no S-Video connector. I have also seen numerous comments about the questionable reliability of newer Philips televisions.

Now, believe (though am not certain) that I can simply plug the camcorder's S-Video connector into the DVD Recorder and play it through that, which would give the Philips extra points.

I cannot, however, afford to be buying additional equipment to improve the sound on the Panasonic.

So... any last-minute advice?
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Old 13-11-2004, 14:56
asdigi
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We have a philips 28 inch pure flat widescreen tv in the living room and has excellent sound, especially when watching a film in virtual dolby using the built in stereo speakers it sounds superb and the picture is very good to.

Im not sure of the model but we got it about 10 months ago from comet.

to get an svideo on the tv you could use an adaptor that converts a scart socket to s-video and phono av inputs then put that in the second scart socket and put the tv on the svideo av channel.
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Old 13-11-2004, 15:04
BlackCat99
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Originally Posted by asdigi
to get an svideo on the tv you could use an adaptor that converts a scart socket to s-video and phono av inputs then put that in the second scart socket and put the tv on the svideo av channel.
But would my idea of watching it through the DVD Recorder work?
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Old 13-11-2004, 15:57
asdigi
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Originally Posted by BlackCat99
But would my idea of watching it through the DVD Recorder work?
i think it should work, i do that with my camcorder and the front s-video socket on my vcr
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