Originally Posted by RobbieSykes123:
“Why not? ”
“Why not? ”
Someone already outlined the possible reasons why a few days ago............so I'll let you do abit of digging.
The Ratings Thread (Part 35)
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Someone already outlined the possible reasons why a few days ago............so I'll let you do abit of digging.
Originally Posted by rzt:
“Coronation Street didn't really get any sort of boost airing between BGT. It would've got that kind of rating in its usual 7.30pm slot anyway. I still think splitting BGT around Corrie isn't a good move as the separate results show always loses viewers as some people decide to watch another channel at 9pm and don't switch back at 9.30pm or it's too late for some viewers. If it had been an all-in-one show like Sunday's, that final 30-minutes would've got at least 10.5m (coming off the back of a 11.8m peak) instead of the 8.3m it actually got.
But I understand why ITV keep splitting it: with just a 2-hour show they'd get 6 internal ad breaks and 2 external breaks around BGT. With a 1.5hr and separate 0.5hr show, they still get 6 internal breaks but a higher 4 external ad breaks around BGT. So they probably are making more money per night doing it this way even though they're probably depressing BGT's average audience overall by a million potential viewers. As I've said before though, I still think they should have one 2-hour semi final show per night, with maybe 1 extra auditions show to make up for the fewer adverts they'd have during the semi finals week, so it all balances out.
Yesterday's BGT shows were down about 15% compared to last year's Bank Holiday Monday shows. That's quite a steep drop considering the auditions the last few weeks have been rating on a par if not better than last year. But last year's Monday episode did rate abnormally high compared to the other semis, with it going from 10.9m on Monday to 9.4m to Tuesday (-14%) in 2011, whereas in 2010 it went from 10.7m to 10.3m (-4%). ITV will be hoping tonight's show has a similar kind of retention to 2010, if it drops a similar kind of level as last year, it's going to only be down to 8m for the performance show which would be unacceptable.”
“Coronation Street didn't really get any sort of boost airing between BGT. It would've got that kind of rating in its usual 7.30pm slot anyway. I still think splitting BGT around Corrie isn't a good move as the separate results show always loses viewers as some people decide to watch another channel at 9pm and don't switch back at 9.30pm or it's too late for some viewers. If it had been an all-in-one show like Sunday's, that final 30-minutes would've got at least 10.5m (coming off the back of a 11.8m peak) instead of the 8.3m it actually got.
But I understand why ITV keep splitting it: with just a 2-hour show they'd get 6 internal ad breaks and 2 external breaks around BGT. With a 1.5hr and separate 0.5hr show, they still get 6 internal breaks but a higher 4 external ad breaks around BGT. So they probably are making more money per night doing it this way even though they're probably depressing BGT's average audience overall by a million potential viewers. As I've said before though, I still think they should have one 2-hour semi final show per night, with maybe 1 extra auditions show to make up for the fewer adverts they'd have during the semi finals week, so it all balances out.
Yesterday's BGT shows were down about 15% compared to last year's Bank Holiday Monday shows. That's quite a steep drop considering the auditions the last few weeks have been rating on a par if not better than last year. But last year's Monday episode did rate abnormally high compared to the other semis, with it going from 10.9m on Monday to 9.4m to Tuesday (-14%) in 2011, whereas in 2010 it went from 10.7m to 10.3m (-4%). ITV will be hoping tonight's show has a similar kind of retention to 2010, if it drops a similar kind of level as last year, it's going to only be down to 8m for the performance show which would be unacceptable.”
With overnights of around 9m rather than 11m, it looks like BGT needs Corrie this year, and not the other way round as in the previous few years....
If Sunday's ratings excuse for BGT was "last year it started on a Monday", and last night's excuse was the Snooker Final/EE clash, I wonder what tonight's will be?
As it seems a bit brighter and warmer today (now we're all back at work), perhaps the BBQ card might come into play....?
Originally Posted by RobbieSykes123:
“With overnights of around 9m rather than 11m, it looks like BGT needs Corrie this year, and not the other way round as in the previous few years....
If Sunday's ratings excuse for BGT was "last year it started on a Monday", and last night's excuse was the Snooker Final/EE clash, I wonder what tonight's will be?
As it seems a bit brighter and warmer today (now we're all back at work), perhaps the BBQ card might come into play....?”
“With overnights of around 9m rather than 11m, it looks like BGT needs Corrie this year, and not the other way round as in the previous few years....
If Sunday's ratings excuse for BGT was "last year it started on a Monday", and last night's excuse was the Snooker Final/EE clash, I wonder what tonight's will be?
As it seems a bit brighter and warmer today (now we're all back at work), perhaps the BBQ card might come into play....?”
How about EE/Holby clash?
On a serious note though, how do the peaks compare to last year for the semi finals?
Originally Posted by Samthefootball:
“There are a few stories in the papers saying that Cowell still isn't happy with ITV and they are preparing for talks. I wonder if he will switch to another channel?”
“There are a few stories in the papers saying that Cowell still isn't happy with ITV and they are preparing for talks. I wonder if he will switch to another channel?”
He'll make shows for other channels - something which is sorely overdue. He'll not move BGT or XF. His bargaining chip will simply be that he has time and they don't. In the absence of any other Saturday night hits, they need XF on in August-December and BGT in spring. If he puts the brakes on then ITV's forward planning goes to pieces.
What's in ITV's favour is that when the time comes, he has far bigger things to deal with. When his Sony deal is up (also at the end of 2013) for negotiation, dealing with ITV won't be such a priority.
Originally Posted by rzt:
“But I understand why ITV keep splitting it: with just a 2-hour show they'd get 6 internal ad breaks and 2 external breaks around BGT. With a 1.5hr and separate 0.5hr show, they still get 6 internal breaks but a higher 4 external ad breaks around BGT. So they probably are making more money per night doing it this way even though they're probably depressing BGT's average audience overall by a million potential viewers. As I've said before though, I still think they should have one 2-hour semi final show per night, with maybe 1 extra auditions show to make up for the fewer adverts they'd have during the semi finals week, so it all balances out.”
“But I understand why ITV keep splitting it: with just a 2-hour show they'd get 6 internal ad breaks and 2 external breaks around BGT. With a 1.5hr and separate 0.5hr show, they still get 6 internal breaks but a higher 4 external ad breaks around BGT. So they probably are making more money per night doing it this way even though they're probably depressing BGT's average audience overall by a million potential viewers. As I've said before though, I still think they should have one 2-hour semi final show per night, with maybe 1 extra auditions show to make up for the fewer adverts they'd have during the semi finals week, so it all balances out.”
Is there anything stopping them from doing:
8pm - Britain's Got Talent
9.30pm - Britain's Got Talent Results
And getting in the extra ad breaks that way?
This is now the third year where it's obviously not working. It's not helping Corrie. It's knocking BGT's performance show clashing with Eastenders (not the difference between peak and average). And mainly, it's damaging the results (perhaps even more significant the rest of the week as it's not half term).
We'll get a good picture of where BGT is after tonight. Should be looking to be above 9m for the performance show. The results I suspect will be down - Tuesday night last year had 9.2m at 9.30pm and I don't see that happening tonight. So the performance shows become even more important.
Originally Posted by C14E:
“We'll get a good picture of where BGT is after tonight. Should be looking to be above 9m for the performance show. The results I suspect will be down - Tuesday night last year had 9.2m at 9.30pm and I don't see that happening tonight. So the performance shows become even more important.”
“We'll get a good picture of where BGT is after tonight. Should be looking to be above 9m for the performance show. The results I suspect will be down - Tuesday night last year had 9.2m at 9.30pm and I don't see that happening tonight. So the performance shows become even more important.”
Worth noting 9.2m is including +1. It was 8.9m excluding it.
Originally Posted by RobbieSykes123:
“With overnights of around 9m rather than 11m, it looks like BGT needs Corrie this year, and not the other way round as in the previous few years....”
“With overnights of around 9m rather than 11m, it looks like BGT needs Corrie this year, and not the other way round as in the previous few years....”
I disagree. BGT still had a higher overnight rating for its performance show, which faced tougher competition, than Corrie so I dont think it needs Corrie to boost it.
I'd say the EE at 7.30pm/Snooker excuse might've dented its average by about 0.5m compared to last year, but that's all. So even after taking that into account, it would be still be down from the 2010 and 2011 Bank Holiday Monday ratings. I'm not quite sure why it's down at this stage given that it was faring well y-o-y for the last couple of months. I'll wait to see how the next couple of shows do, as it could stabilise better than last year's semi finals. But if it doesn't stabilise (which I think is quite likely - the performance show could well be down into the 8's tonight), it'll be a similar situation to last year's X Factor which did well during the auditions but didn't pick up for the live shows. Just a theory but perhaps these shows are now so established that most people who want to watch them are now indeed doing so right from the beginning of the series and therefore the scope for ratings to grow during the live shows decreases. When the format was younger, the start to end of the series saw some serious growth (+116% in 2007, +49% in 2008, +65% in 2009) but in the last couple of years it's been: +16% in 2010, +20% in 2011. So the auditions are still rating really well because its fans are now watching right from the start but the live shows are flatlining a bit as BGT isn't commanding the same kind of word of mouth it used to when it was a fresher format to bring in the 'non-BGT fans', and obviously it doesn't help how the scheduling is as the competition generally ends up becoming a bit tougher for the live shows than auditions (EE).
Originally Posted by Roscoe Barnes:
“n a serious note though, how do the peaks compare to last year for the semi finals?”
“n a serious note though, how do the peaks compare to last year for the semi finals?”
Bank Holiday Monday Peaks:
2011- Performance: 13.0m/13.5m, results: 11.0m/11.3m (exc/inc +1)
2012- Performance: 11.8m/12.3m, results: 9.4m/9.8m (exc/inc +1)
Originally Posted by C14E:
“Is there anything stopping them from doing:
8pm - Britain's Got Talent
9.30pm - Britain's Got Talent Results
And getting in the extra ad breaks that way?
This is now the third year where it's obviously not working. It's not helping Corrie. It's knocking BGT's performance show clashing with Eastenders (not the difference between peak and average). And mainly, it's damaging the results (perhaps even more significant the rest of the week as it's not half term).”
“Is there anything stopping them from doing:
8pm - Britain's Got Talent
9.30pm - Britain's Got Talent Results
And getting in the extra ad breaks that way?
This is now the third year where it's obviously not working. It's not helping Corrie. It's knocking BGT's performance show clashing with Eastenders (not the difference between peak and average). And mainly, it's damaging the results (perhaps even more significant the rest of the week as it's not half term).”
I'm not sure if they can do that, but even if they can, they'd still only have 9 ad breaks in and around BGT (6 internal, 3 external) whereas at the moment it has 10 breaks (6 internal, 4 external). I do agree though that from a pure ratings perspective the current strategy prevents the show from reaching its full potential, and with your suggestion even though they'd have 1 fewer ad break around it, they'd have higher ratings to make up for them.
Originally Posted by rzt:
“Here's a look at how the four main broadcasters did in the BARB Monthly Shares for April 2012:”
“Here's a look at how the four main broadcasters did in the BARB Monthly Shares for April 2012:”
Very interesting as always, rzt. Three things stand out:
1) Quite surprised by the size of the BBC falls across all the 3 largest channels (bearing in mind that, despite recent difficulties, The Voice has surely given BBC1 a big boost on Saturday night).
2) Huge contrast in performance of ITV1 (down a lot) vs ITV2 and ITV3 (both up significantly).
3) Channel 4's increase looks exceptional.
What are the main drivers of these changes? I guess terrestrial decline / digital increase is the continuation of the long term trend though we might have expected some stabilisation as DSO is now almost complete. And the BBC3 and C4 numbers are notable exceptions to that trend.
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“I just read the article, theyve definately booked Cheryl. They havent booked Adele yet, theyre still negotiating so it might not happen.”
“I just read the article, theyve definately booked Cheryl. They havent booked Adele yet, theyre still negotiating so it might not happen.”
It all depends which singers are releasing singles or albums. Shows don't really have to make much effort to "book" singers. The singers' reps approach the telly shows, desperate for the television exposure.
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“Very interesting as always, rzt. Two things stand out:
1) Quite surprised by the size of the BBC falls across all the 3 largest channels. Despite recent difficulties, The Voice has surely given BBC1 a big boost on Saturday night. So what has driven these falls?”
“Very interesting as always, rzt. Two things stand out:
1) Quite surprised by the size of the BBC falls across all the 3 largest channels. Despite recent difficulties, The Voice has surely given BBC1 a big boost on Saturday night. So what has driven these falls?”
Losing half of the Formula One rights could be denting BBC1's share? The F1 can get 30/40% shares on Saturdays/Sundays which were boosting BBC One's Monthly shares but now they've lost half of the races, I suspect Saturdays/Sundays all-day shares are quite a bit down from what they used to be. As for BBC3, they've been making the mistake of having some scripted shows at 9pm which have really suffered compared to their previous slots of 10.30pm where they used to get much higher shares. Both Lip Service and White Van Man's audiences have halved by moving them from the post-EE slot to 9pm and the replacements at 10.30pm haven't rated as well.
Originally Posted by mlt11:
“2) Huge contrast in performance of ITV1 (down a lot) vs ITV2 and ITV3 (both up significantly).”
“2) Huge contrast in performance of ITV1 (down a lot) vs ITV2 and ITV3 (both up significantly).”
ITV2's higher share could be driven by The Only Way is Essex and Celebrity Juice both rating better than 12 months ago. They have Peter Andre's show on air at the moment whereas I don't think it was on this time last year. Also More Talent has been airing a month earlier than last year to drive up their April share (I suspect ITV2's May/June share won't be up as much). The new Guinness World Records programme also has been doing quite well too.
Quote:
“3) Channel 4's increase looks exceptional. Again what has driven this?”
“3) Channel 4's increase looks exceptional. Again what has driven this?”
Worth noting that last year's comparative C4 April figure was abnormally low at 6.2% which was their lowest monthly share last year. So that could be why their y-o-y performance looks better than what it might actually be in reality. But even so, they are doing quite well in the monthly shares at the moment (March was up). Just looking at the BARB Top 10, their top 10 in April this year ratings-wise is at a similar level to last year. So it seems to be most of their growth is coming from outside of primetime.
Originally Posted by Dr. Linus:
“But by turning once again to The Voice, I'm starting to think BBC One has no concept of lead-ins. They're putting new celebrity editions of a current and very popular game show (Pointless Celebrities) on before repeats of an axed and unloved sitcom (My Family). It's literally a no-brainer to switch them around, but they haven't.”
“But by turning once again to The Voice, I'm starting to think BBC One has no concept of lead-ins. They're putting new celebrity editions of a current and very popular game show (Pointless Celebrities) on before repeats of an axed and unloved sitcom (My Family). It's literally a no-brainer to switch them around, but they haven't.”
Lead-ins are one issue, but repeating My Family in an evening slot on BBC One is not cheap because of repeat fees. It's easier to justify the cost with 2m viewers at 6.40pm, than it would be with 1.5m viewers at 5.30pm.
You could say, "Oh well, don't repeat it at all, then", but the repeats might have been part of the actors' contracts for the final two series.
Is that a record high monthly share for ITV2?
3.1% is very impressive. Not long ago I'm sure ITV3 was challenging it for top spot. But even together, they're not overturning the declines for ITV1.
3.1% is very impressive. Not long ago I'm sure ITV3 was challenging it for top spot. But even together, they're not overturning the declines for ITV1.
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“It easily beat all of the imports on the Sky branded channels including Bones, Game of Thrones, Touch and Hawaii Five-O.”
“It easily beat all of the imports on the Sky branded channels including Bones, Game of Thrones, Touch and Hawaii Five-O.”
Where did you get the Sky1 ratings from?
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“I think Watch's major problem at this stage is that they've yet to find a big returnable hit.”
“I think Watch's major problem at this stage is that they've yet to find a big returnable hit.”
Grimm's doing well. Not as well as Alcatraz, but a lot better than last year's No Ordinary Family.
Originally Posted by C14E:
“Is that a record high monthly share for ITV2?
3.1% is very impressive. Not long ago I'm sure ITV3 was challenging it for top spot. But even together, they're not overturning the declines for ITV1.”
“Is that a record high monthly share for ITV2?
3.1% is very impressive. Not long ago I'm sure ITV3 was challenging it for top spot. But even together, they're not overturning the declines for ITV1.”
It was their joint best ever monthly share, September 2011 also had 3.1%. ITV2 have managed 3.0% shares in May 2009, September 2009 and October 2011.
Originally Posted by iaindb:
“TV Times reporting that the next series of The Syndicate will feature a new group of lottery winners.”
“TV Times reporting that the next series of The Syndicate will feature a new group of lottery winners.”
Yes, that's correct. It said on the BBC's press release.
Originally Posted by rzt:
“Losing half of the Formula One rights could be denting BBC1's share? The F1 can get 30/40% shares on Saturdays/Sundays which were boosting BBC One's Monthly shares but now they've lost half of the races, I suspect Saturdays/Sundays all-day shares are quite a bit down from what they used to be. As for BBC3, they've been making the mistake of having some scripted shows at 9pm which have really suffered compared to their previous slots of 10.30pm where they used to get much higher shares. Both Lip Service and White Van Man's audiences have halved by moving them from the post-EE slot to 9pm and the replacements at 10.30pm haven't rated as well.
ITV2's higher share could be driven by The Only Way is Essex and Celebrity Juice both rating better than 12 months ago. They have Peter Andre's show on air at the moment whereas I don't think it was on this time last year. Also More Talent has been airing a month earlier than last year to drive up their April share (I suspect ITV2's May/June share won't be up as much). The new Guinness World Records programme also has been doing quite well too.
Worth noting that last year's comparative C4 April figure was abnormally low at 6.2% which was their lowest monthly share last year. So that could be why their y-o-y performance looks better than what it might actually be in reality. But even so, they are doing quite well in the monthly shares at the moment (March was up). Just looking at the BARB Top 10, their top 10 in April this year ratings-wise is at a similar level to last year. So it seems to be most of their growth is coming from outside of primetime.”
“Losing half of the Formula One rights could be denting BBC1's share? The F1 can get 30/40% shares on Saturdays/Sundays which were boosting BBC One's Monthly shares but now they've lost half of the races, I suspect Saturdays/Sundays all-day shares are quite a bit down from what they used to be. As for BBC3, they've been making the mistake of having some scripted shows at 9pm which have really suffered compared to their previous slots of 10.30pm where they used to get much higher shares. Both Lip Service and White Van Man's audiences have halved by moving them from the post-EE slot to 9pm and the replacements at 10.30pm haven't rated as well.
ITV2's higher share could be driven by The Only Way is Essex and Celebrity Juice both rating better than 12 months ago. They have Peter Andre's show on air at the moment whereas I don't think it was on this time last year. Also More Talent has been airing a month earlier than last year to drive up their April share (I suspect ITV2's May/June share won't be up as much). The new Guinness World Records programme also has been doing quite well too.
Worth noting that last year's comparative C4 April figure was abnormally low at 6.2% which was their lowest monthly share last year. So that could be why their y-o-y performance looks better than what it might actually be in reality. But even so, they are doing quite well in the monthly shares at the moment (March was up). Just looking at the BARB Top 10, their top 10 in April this year ratings-wise is at a similar level to last year. So it seems to be most of their growth is coming from outside of primetime.”
Many thanks for all of that, rzt - fantastic very high quality analysis as always!
There does seem to be some downplaying of expectations for BGT week at the moment. A few people are saying it was never get to hit last year's figures but I really don't see why not. Audition shows, I believe, were very strong and up y-o-y. And the weather has been very poor, much worse than last year, so that should help the show this year round.
I also notice the shares for the the first two live shows were noticably lower than last year, both under 36% this year but last year they were both over 40%. And both live shows for BGT so far had a lower share than The Voice's live show on Saturday...
I also notice the shares for the the first two live shows were noticably lower than last year, both under 36% this year but last year they were both over 40%. And both live shows for BGT so far had a lower share than The Voice's live show on Saturday...
Originally Posted by derek500:
“Where did you get the Sky1 ratings from?”
“Where did you get the Sky1 ratings from?”
Hmm. I thought the top 10 was there earlier. Maybe I was looking at a previous week by mistake, in which case I'm sorry.
Even so, it's safe to assume that would be the case based on the previous few weeks data.
Originally Posted by Georged123:
“There does seem to be some downplaying of expectations for BGT week at the moment. A few people are saying it was never get to hit last year's figures but I really don't see why not. Audition shows, I believe, were very strong and up y-o-y. And the weather has been very poor, much worse than last year, so that should help the show this year round.
I also notice the shares for the the first two live shows were noticably lower than last year, both under 36% this year but last year they were both over 40%. And both live shows for BGT so far had a lower share than The Voice's live show on Saturday...”
“There does seem to be some downplaying of expectations for BGT week at the moment. A few people are saying it was never get to hit last year's figures but I really don't see why not. Audition shows, I believe, were very strong and up y-o-y. And the weather has been very poor, much worse than last year, so that should help the show this year round.
I also notice the shares for the the first two live shows were noticably lower than last year, both under 36% this year but last year they were both over 40%. And both live shows for BGT so far had a lower share than The Voice's live show on Saturday...”
Monday last year was an exceptional figure - probably boosted by Cowell's return amid the Cheryl Cole fiasco that was all over the papers.
For the rest of the week I think it will have to stick to a similar level as last year. There's perhaps an allowance for the results which are influenced by both Corrie and it not being half term. But (at least inc+1) they'd be wanting the performance shows above 9m.
Plus, I think The Voice sliding so quickly has taken the pressure off a bit. If it was still flying I think BGT would be under more scrutiny.
BBC1 can show the missing Silent Witness story, court case that was stopping it ended this afternoon with 9 people found guilty.
Originally Posted by derek500:
“Grimm's doing well. Not as well as Alcatraz, but a lot better than last year's No Ordinary Family.”
“Grimm's doing well. Not as well as Alcatraz, but a lot better than last year's No Ordinary Family.”
To be honest I'd completely forgotten they aired Grimm.
Originally Posted by Georged123:
“There does seem to be some downplaying of expectations for BGT week at the moment...”
“There does seem to be some downplaying of expectations for BGT week at the moment...”
I was thinking this myself. Why, exactly, are people spinning the it was never going to do as well as last year line?
I think Talent/Factor/Voice just have to accept their audition stages hold more interest (for viewers) than their knockout shows, apart from the finals.
Last years first Britains Got Talent show was the hyped up return of Cowell wasnt it? This years series has no such hype. 9.4million viewers for Britains Got Talent is okay, its against EastEnders for half an hour afterall, I wish the Voice was currently in a position to get 9.4million viewers against something as big as that. Theres also a lot of foreign contestants this year in Bgt, viewers at home arent connecting with them.
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Hmm. I thought the top 10 was there earlier. Maybe I was looking at a previous week by mistake, in which case I'm sorry.
Even so, it's safe to assume that would be the case based on the previous few weeks data.”
“Hmm. I thought the top 10 was there earlier. Maybe I was looking at a previous week by mistake, in which case I'm sorry.
Even so, it's safe to assume that would be the case based on the previous few weeks data.”
I think you're right. Both Alcatraz and Grimm are doing very well and the policy of several repeats across the week is paying off.
Wish C5 would do the same. I would have watched Once Upon a Time, but there's too much going on on Sunday evenings. One HD showing per week is not nearly enough.
Originally Posted by derek500:
“I think you're right. Both Alcatraz and Grimm are doing very well and the policy of several repeats across the week is paying off.
Wish C5 would do the same. I would have watched Once Upon a Time, but there's too much going on on Sunday evenings. One HD showing per week is not nearly enough.”
“I think you're right. Both Alcatraz and Grimm are doing very well and the policy of several repeats across the week is paying off.
Wish C5 would do the same. I would have watched Once Upon a Time, but there's too much going on on Sunday evenings. One HD showing per week is not nearly enough.”
I was surprised they chose not to offer a repeat showing of Once Upon a Time on Saturday mornings, for example, on the main channel. But I don't believe HD availability is seen as an absolute must by enough viewers for them to offer it purely for those reasons, and so they probably felt the two 5* showings would suffice.
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