[Bulletguy1]

Anyone watch this excellent documentary on BBC2 at 8pm this evening?

Documentary following cushion manufacturer Tony Caldeira, who like many other businessmen makes his products in China, where costs and wages are cheap. However, with Chinese staff now demanding much higher pay, the executive embarks on an experiment to bring manufacturing back to Britain by opening a factory in Kirkby, near Liverpool. But he has a lot to do. While his new supervisor and machinist set to work training the recruits in the art of sewing, Tony tries to inspire them to commit to the company, despite the fact they are only earning the minimum wage. However, when they start falling like dominoes, it becomes clear his dream is fading fast.

[c0lefax]

Yep, good viewing.

I kinda felt and saw it from all the angles (I'm gonna fence sit). The poor guy can't afford to give them more but they struggle on that wage, it's a vicious circle. It was a bit of an eye opener in China too where they are getting to the point where they can start making demands. I'm guessing it will make companies look elsewhere to other east asian countries or perhaps Africa.

I can't really blame the people leaving for more money, but it wasn't nice how they just left like that without saying anything. Makes you kinda distrustful, you get a nice interview from them and give a chance, they are all nice and give a good impression, and then bugger off without letting anyone know.

[Bulletguy1]

Originally Posted by c0lefax

Yep, good viewing.

I kinda felt and saw it from all the angles (I'm gonna fence sit). The poor guy can't afford to give them more but they struggle on that wage, it's a vicious circle. It was a bit of an eye opener in China too where they are getting to the point where they can start making demands. I'm guessing it will make companies look elsewhere to other east asian countries or perhaps Africa.

I can't really blame the people leaving for more money, but it wasn't nice how they just left like that without saying anything. Makes you kinda distrustful, you get a nice interview from them and give a chance, they are all nice and give a good impression, and then bugger off without letting anyone know.

Though most of us must already know something about China and it's cheap labour.....from 20p an hour to £1 per hour.....and one of his Chinese employees demanding a fifty percent increase!

That said 50% of not very much is.......not very much!

But they are still working as slaves by living in the Factory only returning back home to their families once a year.

[MillyC]

Excellent programme, really enjoyed it, can't wait till the next one.

Loved the Chinese version of the jobcentre

More jobs than people, wish it was like that here.

[DontMessDThread]

Never saw it but I'll catch the repeat next week.

How can the UK minimum wage compete with China?

[RandomArbiter]

Originally Posted by c0lefax

Yep, good viewing.

I kinda felt and saw it from all the angles (I'm gonna fence sit). The poor guy can't afford to give them more but they struggle on that wage, it's a vicious circle. It was a bit of an eye opener in China too where they are getting to the point where they can start making demands. I'm guessing it will make companies look elsewhere to other east asian countries or perhaps Africa.

I can't really blame the people leaving for more money, but it wasn't nice how they just left like that without saying anything. Makes you kinda distrustful, you get a nice interview from them and give a chance, they are all nice and give a good impression, and then bugger off without letting anyone know.

Yes, how dare those subhuman Chinese get to the point where they ask for a living wage!!!! Don't they know that slaves are meant to shut up?

This attitude just shows what most have been thinking all along... no one gives a damn about human rights for the Chinese, and for all we moan about cheap goods and how China are "taking our jobs", the double standards still remain - criticise their slave labour whilst taking advantage of it by buying and exploiting such goods, leaving more money for other things. Chinese workers' long hours for little pay are swapped for added free time for westerners.

But of course, no one says that out loud. It's all China's fault, that makes us feel better.

And also anyone think that the whole premise is just... wrong? A guy who purposely setup shop in China to exploit the low wages so HE HIMSELF could bring in increased profits, is now "taking the fight to China" - how deluded is that? As if the Chinese factory held a gun to his head and said "GIVE US JOBS". It was HIS decision to move offshore, just like it's his decision to move back now once his profit margin is once again going down. He's not fighting anyone but his dwindling profits.

[RandomArbiter]

Originally Posted by DontMessDThread

Never saw it but I'll catch the repeat next week.

How can the UK minimum wage compete with China?

Why don't you ask Germany, they seem to be doing damn well off exports to China.

[c0lefax]

Originally Posted by RandomArbiter

Yes, how dare those subhuman Chinese get to the point where they ask for a living wage!!!! Don't they know that slaves are meant to shut up?

This attitude just shows what most have been thinking all along... no one gives a damn about human rights for the Chinese, and for all we moan about cheap goods and how China are "taking our jobs", the double standards still remain - criticise their slave labour whilst taking advantage of it by buying and exploiting such goods, leaving more money for other things. Chinese workers' long hours for little pay are swapped for added free time for westerners.

But of course, no one says that out loud. It's all China's fault, that makes us feel better.

And also anyone think that the whole premise is just... wrong? A guy who purposely setup shop in China to exploit the low wages so HE HIMSELF could bring in increased profits, is now "taking the fight to China" - how deluded is that? As if the Chinese factory held a gun to his head and said "GIVE US JOBS". It was HIS decision to move offshore, just like it's his decision to move back now once his profit margin is once again going down. He's not fighting anyone but his dwindling profits.

Woah, I wasn't thinking all that. I was purposely fence sitting. It wasn't my attitude.

Epi 2 is on now for anyone interested.

[bob up and down]

You cannot compare britain with China in any way whatsoever. We are too different, we live differently and expect different things from life.

[baroquepop]

Originally Posted by bob up and down

You cannot compare britain with China in any way whatsoever. We are too different, we live differently and expect different things from life.

I think we can compare. We're only separated by a generation or two in terms of working cultures. And people aren't so different throughout the world. Marriage, families, doing well by your kids.

But I really wanted to say is... what an excellent and inspirational program! :-)

[John Tosibah2]

A great programme just like the Channel4 version on Mary Portas British nickers!
It was great to see such dedicated and passionate workers in the Liverpool factory, that Joanne is fantastic and will probably be made a supervisor if the factory grows and good for her!

Originally Posted by c0lefax

Yep, good viewing.

I kinda felt and saw it from all the angles (I'm gonna fence sit). The poor guy can't afford to give them more but they struggle on that wage, it's a vicious circle. It was a bit of an eye opener in China too where they are getting to the point where they can start making demands. I'm guessing it will make companies look elsewhere to other east asian countries or perhaps Africa.

I can't really blame the people leaving for more money, but it wasn't nice how they just left like that without saying anything. Makes you kinda distrustful, you get a nice interview from them and give a chance, they are all nice and give a good impression, and then bugger off without letting anyone know.

You're right it's a difficult situation for employees and employers and like the Channel4 programme just shows what the challenges and pressures are for both businesses and workers in getting decent lasting jobs. Even if they wanted to train and look after new staff they have limited resources and scope.

[John Tosibah2]

Originally Posted by baroquepop

I think we can compare. We're only separated by a generation or two in terms of working cultures. And people aren't so different throughout the world. Marriage, families, doing well by your kids.

But I really wanted to say is... what an excellent and inspirational program! :-)

Exactly, humans are not that different wherever they live! Which was evident in this episode. The Chinese want what we have, good well paid jobs, to see their families on a night, good education for their children, health, a car, a house and enough money to go out shopping and on holiday.

[John Tosibah2]

Originally Posted by RandomArbiter

Why don't you ask Germany, they seem to be doing damn well off exports to China.

Germany, believe it or not does not have a national minimum wage! However the State does subsidise some low paid workers. They 've made some employment laws more flexible but above all they compete on quality and have a culture were businesses take on, train and retain highly skilled staff.

Britain's hire and fire culture, dynamic and uber flexible for the short term is proving to be a disadvantage in the long term.

[Bulletguy1]

Originally Posted by John Tosibah2

Germany, believe it or not does not have a national minimum wage! However the State does subsidise some low paid workers. They 've made some employment laws more flexible but above all they compete on quality and have a culture were businesses take on, train and retain highly skilled staff.

Britain's hire and fire culture, dynamic and uber flexible for the short term is proving to be a disadvantage in the long term.

Spot on. Inherited from 'our friends' across the pond and look at the state of their industries now with ghost towns, derelict factories and previously proud working people reduced to poverty.