[mRebel]

Originally Posted by Doc Shmok

It actually is..

Critics of capitalism associate it with: social inequality and unfair distribution of wealth and power; a tendency toward market monopoly or oligopoly (and government by oligarchy); imperialism, counter-revolutionary wars and various forms of economic and cultural exploitation; repression of workers and trade unionists; social alienation; economic inequality; unemployment; and economic instability. Individual property rights have also been associated with the tragedy of the anticommons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Criticisms

Using public money, in immense quantities, to bail out a private sector company, is capitalism?

[allaorta]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Gold is valuable because there's not much of it.

Money, you can print. A point not lost on Mr Darling or Mr Osborne

Sea shells are worthless.

Oh ye of little knowledge. Sea shells are a highly collectable item with some selling for hundreds and really rare ones even more.

[mRebel]

Originally Posted by Nosnikrapl

I bet if you dig back you will find the Tory Right saying so - probably John Redwood. They were ridiculed in late 90's/ early 2000's for saying this stuff but just look what happened. There is a speech William Hague gave predicting exactly what happened now. It is eerie exactly how accurate it was. Found out recently written by Osbourne!!!!

It wasn't just right wingers who predicted the Euro was unworkable in principle, and fiddled in its construction.
Oh, and Mr Osbourne, in an interview with the Telegraph in 2006, described the City of London as 'the jewel in the crown of British business.' Oh well, we all make mistakes!

[jmclaugh]

Originally Posted by Doc Shmok

You put it all down to Germany and France highlighting the UK position. Out of which I remarked above. I fully accept my responsibility and will and have already paid for with my taxes, possibly with the downturn of my German business.

How is that blaming it solely on the UK?

It's still my opinion that in a team you can change more than just moaning from the outside but still taking on EU business.

Germany also didn't force you to have a totally overblown banking sector.

Joint **** up..

The UK is in the EU and it has been active in the EU in putting its views across and I suppose some consider that as moaning from the outside because that wasn't what most others including you it seems wanted to hear. That's their choice but the fact is the UK is not in the Eurozone which has pursued its own course and is solely responsible for where that took it which led to the mess it is in now. It also has been faffing about with the problem for years now and has failed miserably to resolve because it means admitting it was wrong.

I have never said any other country is responsible for the UK financial sector's problems or that the UK doesn't have serious problems.

[allaorta]

Originally Posted by What name??

http://www.seashellworld.com/volute-shells.html

We may yet go back to a shell based economy

Ah, I hadn't seen this when I made my post but I know a guy who both collects and deals in sea shells....amazing prices some of them.

[mRebel]

Originally Posted by Doc Shmok

Yeah so what ... shoulda woulda coulda ..

Britain could have gotten involved and prevented these mistakes instead of moaning from the sideline.

We all made mistakes and now we have to move forward and deal with the consequences. Whinging about the past doesn't help. See Greece.

Thank goodness we didn't! One thing we in the UK do have to thank Brown for is that he kept us out of the Euro.

[Nosnikrapl]

Originally Posted by mRebel

Brown has his share of responsibility for bank regulation, or lack of it, in the UK. But was he responsible for the banking crisis in the US, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Iceland, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Belguim, Hungary, and a few others?

No - he was responsible for the 2nd largest banking sector in the WORLD. The rest of the world relied on him & Wall Street to act responsibly. They didn't. In fact the biggest issue of insurance cover that blew up was due to London allowing this specfic trading that was banned in US.

You just watch when over time this is all analysed Gordon Brown is going to in the mire up to his neck. Folks talk about prosecutions - he should be for criminal incompetence.

[MTUK1]

Originally Posted by Nosnikrapl

No - he was responsible for the 2nd largest banking sector in the WORLD. The rest of the world relied on him & Wall Street to act responsibly. They didn't. In fact the biggest issue of insurance cover that blew up was due to London allowing this specfic trading that was banned in US.

You just watch when over time this is all analysed Gordon Brown is going to in the mire up to his neck. Folks talk about prosecutions - he should be for criminal incompetence.

So the corrupt practices of the southern European economies in the Eurozone have nothing to do with their predicament ?

[Nosnikrapl]

Originally Posted by mRebel

It wasn't just right wingers who predicted the Euro was unworkable in principle, and fiddled in its construction.
Oh, and Mr Osbourne, in an interview with the Telegraph in 2006, described the City of London as 'the jewel in the crown of British business.' Oh well, we all make mistakes!

What has that got to do with it!!!

Tories are the Eurosceptic party & made it a central plank of their 2001 election campaign. Got totally ridiculed for it by Labour/Lib Dems/Media.

As for what George Osbourne said there are speeches (many of them) by Gordon taking about how brilliantly he has managed the city / how great gentle touch regulation is. He was the guy who got UK into this mess.

[Nosnikrapl]

Originally Posted by MTUK1

So the corrupt practices of the southern European economies in the Eurozone have nothing to do with their predicament ?

No - conversation was that the banking crisis (2008) not about this 2nd Euro crisis.

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by jmclaugh

I have never said any other country is responsible for the UK financial sector's problems or that the UK doesn't have serious problems.

The analysis is somewhat academical I feel. I was more interested if Greece can be saved etc. and to make my own decisions based on that.

After WW2 despite everyone calling us Nazis, Germany's drive was to restrict nationalism. Sadly we forgot that others are still proud of being born on a random place on earth.

Where did it all start, Franz Ferdinand? Who cares? More important to deal with facts now.

It is irrelevant for me if they now suddenly found the USE or if it collapses, I have to look for new income streams as I will be loosing money either way.

I am here to understand the problem and with DS you always get challenged in your view, which is helpful.

My job as a Director of my company is to understand the bigger picture, the day to day running is done by General Managers on the ground.

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by MTUK1

Do you think the Uk should contribute to saving the Euro?

Your PM seems to think so.

It seems the wise thing to do to cover your own arses, otherwise no.

[mRebel]

Originally Posted by Nosnikrapl

No - he was responsible for the 2nd largest banking sector in the WORLD. The rest of the world relied on him & Wall Street to act responsibly. They didn't. In fact the biggest issue of insurance cover that blew up was due to London allowing this specfic trading that was banned in US.

You just watch when over time this is all analysed Gordon Brown is going to in the mire up to his neck. Folks talk about prosecutions - he should be for criminal incompetence.

Along with many others, here and abroad.

[mRebel]

Originally Posted by Nosnikrapl

What has that got to do with it!!!

Tories are the Eurosceptic party & made it a central plank of their 2001 election campaign. Got totally ridiculed for it by Labour/Lib Dems/Media.

As for what George Osbourne said there are speeches (many of them) by Gordon taking about how brilliantly he has managed the city / how great gentle touch regulation is. He was the guy who got UK into this mess.

Amonst others.

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by mRebel

Thank goodness we didn't! One thing we in the UK do have to thank Brown for is that he kept us out of the Euro.

Brown? Not Lord Lawson etc?

I think you need to be thinking practical. While theoretically, yes, if your biggest neighbours do it and you still got trade, you leave yourself out of the team and with less input.

So full marks theoretically !

Think about it like this be the Banker inside with influence or the protester outside in the rain with a dodgy sign that is chased around by the police.

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by mRebel

Using public money, in immense quantities, to bail out a private sector company, is capitalism?

The real one yes, the fancy perfect one in your head no.

Also socialism is nothing else than collective egoism and reverse wealth distribution.

[Majlis]

Originally Posted by Doc Shmok

Think about it like this be the Banker inside with influence or the protester outside in the rain with a dodgy sign that is chased around by the police.

Arte you trying to claim that we would be better off in the Euro at this present time?

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by Majlis

Arte you trying to claim that we would be better off in the Euro at this present time?

No but you would have had more input and could have prevented certain things. Trying to skim off the advantages while being outside didn't work either as it seems.

Britain always pretends it has nothing to do with Europe, well now you might find out some geographical realities.

Being half Switzerland doesn't seem to work either.

[Nick1966]

Originally Posted by Doc Shmok

Being half Switzerland doesn't seem to work either.

Can't help thinking the EU shafted the Swiss. And here I'm thinking of the guillotine clause: if the Swiss object to any new EU measure on the single market, they lose the lot.

[Nick1966]

Meanwhile, Angela Merkel is forcing the pace with the Greeks:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

[MARTYM8]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Meanwhile, Angela Merkel is forcing the pace with the Greeks:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

Isn't it for Greece and its politicians to decide if they hold referendums or not?

Of course when the Greek PM suggested a referendum last year - within 48 hours he had been booted out of office? So what's new?

[Doc Shmok]

Originally Posted by MARTYM8

Isn't it for Greece and its politicians to decide if they hold referendums or not?

Of course when the Greek PM suggested a referendum last year - within 48 hours he had been booted out of office? So what's new?

If you hold a referendum you don't have to take the Greek parliamentary vote and proceed. Apparently most Greeks want the Euro.

Nothing else than the fake election system referendum here where contra arguments were based around traditions and not arguments. Standard democratic manipulation of "the stupid people".

Not sure if the Greeks are that stupid, but she seems to think it's worth a try.

[jra]

Originally Posted by boddism

Hi

Any economist types out there... we keep hearing that Greece cant default etc. But why?? What does it mean for the day to day lives of Greeks? (Apart from a change of currency that is)

This is pretty much a cert to happen now but what will it mean for Greece the country??

Frankly. I wish I cared.

[Nick1966]

Originally Posted by jra

Frankly. I wish I cared.

Several years from now you may regret making that comment.

We shall see.

[jra]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Several years from now you may regret making that comment.

We shall see.

In several years from now, I'll probably be worm food.