[Virgil Tracy]

Originally Posted by galaxy99

seriously,

why did the pilot age so fast going through to Jupiter and then finally seeing himself dieing in the bed? sorry about all the questions. I would have been better reading the book.
Maybe the time travel was accelerated going to Jupiter and it really took 40 light years to get their, then the giant baby

he was evolving into the next stage of 'humanity '

[galaxy99]

Originally Posted by Virgil Tracy

he was evolving into the next stage of 'humanity '

thanks

[spiney2]

....according to clarke's novel, subjective time acceleration is somehow involved in "uploading" dave bowman into his new existance as a light-being. he experiences it as both going backwards (reliving memories) and forwards (through old age into biological death) through time.

i much prefer the symbolic version. dave bowman is "odessyus". and hence everyman. so humankind evolves. kubrik keeps hinting thats what he means.

partial double post. sorry . curse of the kindle !

[spiney2]

....according to clarke's novel, subjective time acceleration is somehow involved in "uploading" dave bowman into his new existance as a light-being. he experiences it as both going backwards (reliving memories) and forwards (through old age into biological death) through time.

i much prefer the symbolic version. dave bowman is "odessyus". and hence everyman. so humankind evolves. kubrik keeps hinting thats what he means.

as said ..... clarke is literal and much influenced by olaf stapledon's "overmind". with 2001 a rehash of childhoods end. but kubrick is far more cultually aware.

[spiney2]

arthur clarke was a mixture of willy ley and olaf stapledon and sommerset.

or spaceships/ god/ apples !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley

http://hilobrow.com/2011/05/10/olaf-stapledon/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset

[bugloss]

the ape throws bone into the air bit was consciously copied from A Canterbury Tale by Powell and Pressburger, and also spoofed by Monty Python - ape throws bone in air, bone turns into spaceship, spaceship falls back down and squashes ape

the starchild bit was maybe copied from the Czech film Icarus XB1- new born baby morphs into new planet. A lot of the look of 2001 comes from that film for sure. Also shamelessly plundered by Danny Boyle's Sunshine

The music by Ligeti, Lux Aeterna (not antenna ) etc, was used without permission ( a sore point)

2010 is a great sci fi film also

edit - 2001 isn't really sci fi at all

[spiney2]

the famous transition cut from bone weapon to orbital laser is meant to suggest that technological progress is dangerous. ie it mostly happens through seeking new weapons. and humankind could quite easily end up destroying itself. this risk being the price paid for progress.

im not sure whether the powell film was actually in kubrick's mind .......

[spiney2]

Originally Posted by bugloss

the ape throws bone into the air bit was consciously copied from A Canterbury Tale by Powell and Pressburger, and also spoofed by Monty Python - ape throws bone in air, bone turns into spaceship, spaceship falls back down and squashes ape

the starchild bit was maybe copied from the Czech film Icarus XB1- new born baby morphs into new planet. A lot of the look of 2001 comes from that film for sure. Also shamelessly plundered by Danny Boyle's Sunshine

The music by Ligeti, Lux Aeterna (not antenna ) etc, was used without permission ( a sore point)

2010 is a great sci fi film also

edit - 2001 isn't really sci fi at all

sorry. thankyou for correction.

again im not sure how far kubrick was influenced. did he actually say so ?

[Virgil Tracy]

Originally Posted by bugloss

the ape throws bone into the air bit was consciously copied from A Canterbury Tale by Powell and Pressburger, and also spoofed by Monty Python - ape throws bone in air, bone turns into spaceship, spaceship falls back down and squashes ape

how so ?

the starchild bit was maybe copied from the Czech film Icarus XB1- new born baby morphs into new planet. A lot of the look of 2001 comes from that film for sure. Also shamelessly plundered by Danny Boyle's Sunshine

The music by Ligeti, Lux Aeterna (not antenna ) etc, was used without permission ( a sore point)

2010 is a great sci fi film also

edit - 2001 isn't really sci fi at all

what genre would you say it is ?

[bugloss]

1. medieval pilgrims walk to Canterbury.....falcon hovering....cut to now 194x....falcon turns into Spitfire

2. OK 2010 is a pure sci fi film. The problem with it is you can't understand it fully without watching 2001, and when you see that, it's obviously completely different . Therefore it;s not a sci fi film Not sure that logic would get past Aristotle. It's actually a <pretentious word> about <pretentious words>. The Vatican were highly impressed with it anyway
I saw it at the cinema when I was about 11 and it knocked my socks off also. Funny thing - modern CGI make the 2001 special effects look even better

Solaris is another one like 2001 (Icarus XB1 guy also)

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by bugloss

1. medieval pilgrims walk to Canterbury.....falcon hovering....cut to now 194x....falcon turns into Spitfire

2. OK 2010 is a pure sci fi film. The problem with it is you can't understand it fully without watching 2001, and when you see that, it's obviously completely different . Therefore it;s not a sci fi film Not sure that logic would get past Aristotle. It's actually a <pretentious word> about <pretentious words>. The Vatican were highly impressed with it anyway

Arthur C Clark joked that MGM didn't know it but they'd just funded the world's most expensive religious film.

My opinion? Yes, it's science fiction. Alien artefacts, spaceships, first contact, homicidal computers, wormholes, it's all there.

[Virgil Tracy]

Originally Posted by bugloss

1. medieval pilgrims walk to Canterbury.....falcon hovering....cut to now 194x....falcon turns into Spitfire

2. OK 2010 is a pure sci fi film. The problem with it is you can't understand it fully without watching 2001, and when you see that, it's obviously completely different . Therefore it;s not a sci fi film Not sure that logic would get past Aristotle. It's actually a <pretentious word> about <pretentious words>. The Vatican were highly impressed with it anyway
I saw it at the cinema when I was about 11 and it knocked my socks off also. Funny thing - modern CGI make the 2001 special effects look even better

Solaris is another one like 2001 (Icarus XB1 guy also)

well I certainly think its sci-fi , sorry don't see what you mean

[bugloss]

I was just thinking - what would be the previous sci fi film in the West that was remotely serious in any way, i mean one with space travel/other worlds? Forbidden Planet? Several Communist ones, obviously.

[Eddie Badger]

Destination Moon in the 50s

[bugloss]

Originally Posted by Eddie Badger

Destination Moon in the 50s

exactly. We're so used to sci fi set in space, some of which has stuff to say, but 2001 was maybe the first one in nearly 20 years to treat it seriously. Forbidden Planet is remembered because it's a version of The Tempest

[spiney2]

id say The Andromeda Strain. similar style realism in the details..

.... and ..... The Day the Earth Caught FIre. with a real newspaper editor, how's that for realism ?

...... oh, and On The Beach .....

[Virgil Tracy]

Originally Posted by bugloss

I was just thinking - what would be the previous sci fi film in the West that was remotely serious in any way, i mean one with space travel/other worlds? Forbidden Planet? Several Communist ones, obviously.

Day the Earth Stood Still , Invasion of the Bodysnatchers

[galaxy99]

from a novice, who does not read sci-fi,I do not understand how the previous poster says 2001 A Space Odyssey is not this genre,surely the definition of sci-fi is someones vision of the future,what has not happened yet. If not based in space and sci-fi is of the future would you say the film Never let me go,be considered in the sci-fi genre, as schools for living and breathing containers for kidneys and vital organs for maybe richer patrons,this is sci-fi. Or even 1984.

[bugloss]

Originally Posted by spiney2

id say The Andromeda Strain. similar style realism in the details..

.... and ..... The Day the Earth Caught FIre. with a real newspaper editor, how's that for realism ?

...... oh, and On The Beach .....

sci fi film in space/other worlds........

so no, no and no

Andromeda Strain was later also

[Johnny Clay]

Originally Posted by bugloss

the ape throws bone into the air bit was consciously copied from A Canterbury Tale by Powell and Pressburger,

Can't recall any authoritive statement on this, but surely it was.

Nice touch though. Majestic is a rather pompous word, but it applies to both films here.

[bugloss]

funny thing, was just looking up Canterbury Tale, and found a film i vividly remember watching when I was very young. It seems it was a P & P film called They're a Weird Mob about an Italian immigrant in Australia. I remember how nasty everyone was to him, until he turned out to be a nice bloke by working 10 times harder than necessary

[halloweenbabe]

Originally Posted by bugloss

exactly. We're so used to sci fi set in space, some of which has stuff to say, but 2001 was maybe the first one in nearly 20 years to treat it seriously. Forbidden Planet is remembered because it's a version of The Tempest

And because it introduced the world to Robbie the Robot who later went on to star in Space Family Robinson...

*In a mechanical voice... *

Danger Will Robinson ! Danger !

Originally Posted by spiney2

id say The Andromeda Strain. similar style realism in the details....

One of my favourites

[bugloss]

well i remember Forbidden Planet because Altaira wore an extremely sexy short dress

[spiney2]

im wrong abut Andromeda. thought that was
64 for some reason! probably the style ......

...... but question is "serious" sf. ie, an attempt at The Hard Stuff. forbidden planet doesnt count although a brilliant film ........

[Alrightmate]

Originally Posted by galaxy99

from a novice, who does not read sci-fi,I do not understand how the previous poster says 2001 A Space Odyssey is not this genre,surely the definition of sci-fi is someones vision of the future,what has not happened yet. If not based in space and sci-fi is of the future would you say the film Never let me go,be considered in the sci-fi genre, as schools for living and breathing containers for kidneys and vital organs for maybe richer patrons,this is sci-fi. Or even 1984.

Not necessarily.
Sometimes you can get fiction that is set in the future which is said to belong to the genre of 'Predictive Fiction'.
The future would just be a stage for the story to be played out in which would be more of a philosophical/people/society based story.
In this kind of example the scientific aspects of the story may be completely irrelevant.

Some purists believe that the label 'Science Fiction' should only be applied to fictional work if it more thoroughly explores the scientific nature of a story. Perhaps more about how the future technology itself impacts on people.
In this kind of example technological advances may be more key to the story.

It probably depends on what you want the focuses of your story to be about and how you want to ground it, and in many examples there's going to be crossover.