[Shop Girl]

Originally Posted by Biffpup

I know. He was still wearing the t-shirt & pajama bottoms in S4. I know it's been suggested that the blue pajamas were a sort of a bedtime suit of armor, but still, when did he get them and why, especially since his staying in PW with LG wasn't planned? It drives me crazy. All of us, I think.

I always thought that maybe he owned one pair of pjs that he would wear if he was on a trip - staying in a hotel. Maybe he packed them because he intended to spend his first night back in London in a hotel until his furniture was all unpacked?

Then when he realized he was staying for several days he stopped in Truro and purchased another set or two?

[Biffpup]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

I always thought that maybe he owned one pair of pjs that he would wear if he was on a trip - staying in a hotel. Maybe he packed them because he intended to spend his first night back in London in a hotel until his furniture was all unpacked?

Then when he realized he was staying for several days he stopped in Truro and purchased another set or two?

I guess that's logical. At least it's something that could explain it. Still, so strange.

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by NewPark

He seems to be almost totally devoid of hair on arms, hands, wrists, etc. What's even more remarkable,DM (presumably not the case with MC) never has a five-o'clock shadow, even when up late drinking with LG, after a night at the hospital, woken up at 4:00 to go on an emergency housecall....

DM's hairlessness is infamous, isn't it? Nonetheless, unlike poor Mark Mylow, I think we can happily assume DM has otherwise fully developed his masculine features!

[madmother]

New poll up on http://www.docmartinonline.net/ - What car would Doc Martin buy for Louisa?

Thanks to Oliver for the suggestion.

[bookfan2]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

I always thought that maybe he owned one pair of pjs that he would wear if he was on a trip - staying in a hotel. Maybe he packed them because he intended to spend his first night back in London in a hotel until his furniture was all unpacked?

Then when he realized he was staying for several days he stopped in Truro and purchased another set or two?

I guess I can't figure out why he would need "formal" pajamas for the hotel in London since he wasn't planning on anyone sharing the room

Maybe anticipating a fire drill? I like the description of the pj's as a suit of armor. And Louisa's variation is that blue sweater she wears. I think she even wore it to bed?

I always also thought it was interesting that even with middle-of-the-night emergencies like Peter, he still took the time to get fully dressed including a tie.

[ggo85]

I always also thought it was interesting that even with middle-of-the-night emergencies like Peter, he still took the time to get fully dressed including a tie.

Proving I spend way too much time watching this show, the emergency with Peter is one of the very few (maybe only) emergencies where he does NOT wear a tie. He had a jacket and long-sleeved shirt, but was sans tie the entire night.

S1 was clearly DM's most "informal." I believe that, some time after that, MC decided that DM should "always" wear a suit. After that, he rarely if ever appeared w/o a suit other than the bedroom scenes in S5.

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by ggo85

Proving I spend way too much time watching this show, the emergency with Peter is one of the very few (maybe only) emergencies where he does NOT wear a tie. He had a jacket and long-sleeved shirt, but was sans tie the entire night.

S1 was clearly DM's most "informal." I believe that, some time after that, MC decided that DM should "always" wear a suit. After that, he rarely if ever appeared w/o a suit other than the bedroom scenes in S5.

Yes, you're right about no tie with Peter Cronk (maybe the sexy dream about Louisa distracted him or loosened him up.) But beyond S1 the decision was also made he was to have no more unbuttoned suit jackets.

[largenincharge]

Originally Posted by cc.cookie

We know MC wear Calvin Kleins.

I'm new here. How, pray tell, do we know this?! I need to investigate immediately. You know, for science.

[marchrand]

In S5 we saw a much darker series, even the affection between DM and LG was very limited. I think it was to let LG realize that his stay in PW was only temporary and that as soon as he could he was going to London. He was not going to send any signals to Louisa that they were going to resume what we (kind of) saw in S3. LG, on the other hand, by her nighttime wear, appeared to be like-minded. Louisa should, by now, realize that she has to take the first step.

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by largenincharge

I'm new here. How, pray tell, do we know this?! I need to investigate immediately. You know, for science.

We have a photo of his Calvins logo waistband with his outer shirt tucked into them above his jeans - thanks to an intrepid eagle-eyed forum member!

[statesidefan]

BTW, folks, for those of you, like me, waiting for S5 to hit online at Hulu, etc. . .Acorn TV is making available all episodes of all series (including 5) now til the end of the month! And I don't have the same buffering problem from their site I sometimes do at my hotel with Hulu - nor must I contend with the annoying commercials.

[largenincharge]

Originally Posted by statesidefan

We have a photo of his Calvins logo waistband with his outer shirt tucked into them above his jeans - thanks to an intrepid eagle-eyed forum member!

Would anyone have a link? I have no shame.

[ReneeBird]

Originally Posted by marchrand

In S5 we saw a much darker series, even the affection between DM and LG was very limited. I think it was to let LG realize that his stay in PW was only temporary and that as soon as he could he was going to London. He was not going to send any signals to Louisa that they were going to resume what we (kind of) saw in S3. LG, on the other hand, by her nighttime wear, appeared to be like-minded. Louisa should, by now, realize that she has to take the first step.

But, that doesn't fit with what he said at the end of S-4! The, "I was wrong about everything" speech. What happened between the hospital, and when they brought JH back to Portwenn? Argh, S-5 is Sooo frustrating!

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by ReneeBird

But, that doesn't fit with what he said at the end of S-4! The, "I was wrong about everything" speech. What happened between the hospital, and when they brought JH back to Portwenn? Argh, S-5 is Sooo frustrating!

Yep - and I'm going to use hyperbole here - it's like the DM in the last episode of S4 was replaced in S5 by his evil twin, to use comic book parlance. Stodgier, older, more buttoned up, stiffer, less light in his eyes, no amorous urges - ugh! So even though we know DM and LG are going to cohabit and marry in S6, let's have some continuity and some kind of transition from what previously happened so it makes sense for the characters and with the viewers.

[marchrand]

Originally Posted by ReneeBird

But, that doesn't fit with what he said at the end of S-4! The, "I was wrong about everything" speech. What happened between the hospital, and when they brought JH back to Portwenn? Argh, S-5 is Sooo frustrating!

I am beginning to take episode 7.5 of this series very lightly. Look what happened at the end of S3 (Louisa saying "See you around".) and beginning of S4. No Louisa in sight, nor I believe any mention of her, until end of E1, and then we find out she is 6 months pregnant. I am hoping S6 will bring us happier days for this couple--or we will demand S7!!

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by ReneeBird

But, that doesn't fit with what he said at the end of S-4! The, "I was wrong about everything" speech. What happened between the hospital, and when they brought JH back to Portwenn? Argh, S-5 is Sooo frustrating!

I still think that, in light of what happened in S5, (but not what any of the 9 million watchers might have thought) the only reasonable interpretation of the "I was wrong" speech and the big reconciliation at the end of S4, is that it brought them back to their positive (but sad) feelings for each other at the end of S3 -- in other words, he was apologizing for acting out all his frustrations and hurt feelings in such hurtful ways throughout S4, and she accepted that. But it did not advance them forward -- they were still at the stage of having called off the wedding because they didn't think they would make each other happy as a couple, and while each may have changed their minds about that outcome, they don't know about the other and so they are at a standstill -- which basically is how S5 plays out, really. They aren't making any motion forward, toward greater intimacy, and so LG, at least can't tolerate this and lashes out and leaves. In my mind, at least.

So, the blue pajama armor is a sign to LG that DM is not going to try to make her change her mind about not wanting to be with him; he will leave for London and not press her to resume a romantic relationship, which he must think (because she hasn't really made a move to the contrary) that she doesn't want. It's not necessarily a sign that he doesn't wish for more from her, because I think that he does -- although he can't admit it to her.

He does offer, though, that she can move to London with him and he will help with the child-rearing. That's the only inference I can draw from his wanting her to be in London, and I find that very strange.

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by marchrand

I am beginning to take episode 7.5 of this series very lightly. Look what happened at the end of S3 (Louisa saying "See you around".) and beginning of S4. No Louisa in sight, nor I believe any mention of her, until end of E1, and then we find out she is 6 months pregnant. I am hoping S6 will bring us happier days for this couple--or we will demand S7!!

Marchrand; I think there are two "mentions" of Louisa in S4E1. First of all, when Martin is up at the school, he walks past a classroom and sees a teacher with a brunette ponytail, and he jerks open the classroom door, clearly thinking that it must be Louisa. And when Bert in his office for one of his inimitable consultations, he remarks about feeling like something is missing and then says something like, but not like you, "you know what's missing." Clearly an allusion to Louisa.

If you are saying that you distrust the ending of S5 -- that it's a very poor predictor of what's in store for us in S6 -- well, I can certainly emphasize with that, given past experience. I reassure myself by thinking that Martin Clunes did say they would be married, and that they surely would not do something awful to the story as their farewell to their faithful viewers.

[Shop Girl]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I still think that, in light of what happened in S5, (but not what any of the 9 million watchers might have thought) the only reasonable interpretation of the "I was wrong" speech and the big reconciliation at the end of S4, is that it brought them back to their positive (but sad) feelings for each other at the end of S3 -- in other words, he was apologizing for acting out all his frustrations and hurt feelings in such hurtful ways throughout S4, and she accepted that. But it did not advance them forward -- they were still at the stage of having called off the wedding because they didn't think they would make each other happy as a couple, and while each may have changed their minds about that outcome, they don't know about the other and so they are at a standstill -- which basically is how S5 plays out, really. They aren't making any motion forward, toward greater intimacy, and so LG, at least can't tolerate this and lashes out and leaves. In my mind, at least.

So, the blue pajama armor is a sign to LG that DM is not going to try to make her change her mind about not wanting to be with him; he will leave for London and not press her to resume a romantic relationship, which he must think (because she hasn't really made a move to the contrary) that she doesn't want. It's not necessarily a sign that he doesn't wish for more from her, because I think that he does -- although he can't admit it to her.

He does offer, though, that she can move to London with him and he will help with the child-rearing. That's the only inference I can draw from his wanting her to be in London, and I find that very strange.

In reading this, all of a sudden I realized something about the "I was wrong" speech just before the birth. Now, maybe most have figured this out already, but I just realized when he said he was wrong about leaving, what he meant was that the decision to leave was wrong. But the problem was that he couldn't do anything about it at that stage. Contracts were signed and there wasn't much he could do about undoing it all. The best he could do at that point was to try to convince Louisa to go with him.

This time he says that none of it matters, so maybe this means he will do whatever is necessary to stay because this is where Louisa is.

Not completely sure about this last bit, but feeling enlightened about the S4 ending speech.

[dcdmfan]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I still think that, in light of what happened in S5, (but not what any of the 9 million watchers might have thought) the only reasonable interpretation of the "I was wrong" speech and the big reconciliation at the end of S4, is that it brought them back to their positive (but sad) feelings for each other at the end of S3 -- in other words, he was apologizing for acting out all his frustrations and hurt feelings in such hurtful ways throughout S4, and she accepted that. But it did not advance them forward -- they were still at the stage of having called off the wedding because they didn't think they would make each other happy as a couple, and while each may have changed their minds about that outcome, they don't know about the other and so they are at a standstill -- which basically is how S5 plays out, really. They aren't making any motion forward, toward greater intimacy, and so LG, at least can't tolerate this and lashes out and leaves. In my mind, at least.

So, the blue pajama armor is a sign to LG that DM is not going to try to make her change her mind about not wanting to be with him; he will leave for London and not press her to resume a romantic relationship, which he must think (because she hasn't really made a move to the contrary) that she doesn't want. It's not necessarily a sign that he doesn't wish for more from her, because I think that he does -- although he can't admit it to her.

He does offer, though, that she can move to London with him and he will help with the child-rearing. That's the only inference I can draw from his wanting her to be in London, and I find that very strange.

I don't think series 5 is that dark and dismal. Once she says she'll go to London, I think it's understood that their relationship will progress. Now, the producers didn't give us good information about this. Costume design choices were made that the producers seemed to think they needed to go with for the entire season. But I think he wants her there for intimate reasons. I think that's what they were trying to imply. Like when Martin speeds up to Aunt Ruth's with the dog after it interrupted him and Louisa. I think we're meant to think that he is going to say "Good Luck" to her and that he does hope she has a good first day. But it's all too subtle.

They spent a lot of time with Martin working out his childhood issues. That was his focus when he was dealing with the kids at the school. He was reliving his own past, and thinking about his son. His conversations with AR were focused on what his parents did and how he didn't want to repeat that.

Then the last issue is Louisa's character seeming to change according to the needs of the plot. Had she been more consistent we may have had a clearer understanding of their relationship.

Unfortunately I think we're meant to make certain assumptions and connections. Maybe the more casual viewer made the connections because they weren't scrutinizing every moment of the show like we do. But for us, the holes and inconsistencies distract us from what they were really trying to say about them. Or maybe BP didn't know what they wanted to say about them, maybe they didn't have as clear a vision of the nature of their relationship than we assume they had.

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by dcdmfan

I don't think series 5 is that dark and dismal. Once she says she'll go to London, I think it's understood that their relationship will progress. Now, the producers didn't give us good information about this. Costume design choices were made that the producers seemed to think they needed to go with for the entire season. But I think he wants her there for intimate reasons. I think that's what they were trying to imply. Like when Martin speeds up to Aunt Ruth's with the dog after it interrupted him and Louisa. I think we're meant to think that he is going to say "Good Luck" to her and that he does hope she has a good first day. But it's all too subtle.

They spent a lot of time with Martin working out his childhood issues. That was his focus when he was dealing with the kids at the school. He was reliving his own past, and thinking about his son. His conversations with AR were focused on what his parents did and how he didn't want to repeat that.

Then the last issue is Louisa's character seeming to change according to the needs of the plot. Had she been more consistent we may have had a clearer understanding of their relationship.

Unfortunately I think we're meant to make certain assumptions and connections. Maybe the more casual viewer made the connections because they weren't scrutinizing every moment of the show like we do. But for us, the holes and inconsistencies distract us from what they were really trying to say about them. Or maybe BP didn't know what they wanted to say about them, maybe they didn't have as clear a vision of the nature of their relationship than we assume they had.

This is the place where SimplyRed would say that we really don't know that they HADN'T resumed an intimate relationship.

I agree, the scene where the dog interrupts the moment when Louisa agrees to go to London with Martin and then he hustles the dog off to AR, clearly is meant to indicate that they were on the verge of greater intimacy, which Martin recognizes and is annoyed about the dog interrupting.

The pajamas-as-armor could also indicate, I know that you're post-partum and I have no intention of bothering you with even the appearance of wanting to resume intimate relations.

But I still think that they are very tentative and reserved with each other because they are afraid that their hopes for greater intimacy are not shared and could so easily be disappointed.

And yes, ShopGirl, I think that's the right interpretation for "wrong for leaving" -- i.e., that the decision itself was wrong but that didn't mean he could do anything about it or so he thought at the time.

[Conniej]

Originally Posted by largenincharge

Would anyone have a link? I have no shame.

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo....user=657876831

[bookfan2]

Did Minghella leave after Series 2?

I ask because I am happy with the finales of Series 4 and 5, but overall like the storytelling and the characterization of DM in the first two seasons.

So I am left with less than perfect story arcs, and a darker DM in the last three seasons, but with genuine hope for the couple I care about., which I gather Minghella wasn't vested in.

As for whether there will be a bait and switch in the show's presumed finale at the end of Series 6, I don't think that likely. Not only for artistic reasons, but for financial ones as well. Why offend huge numbers of fans by breaking up the couple they have championed for the last three series. Fans hold grudges there are viewers who won't watch any other work by the creator of a very popular show because they felt betrayed by the show's finale. Why start off new projects with fans angry with you.

[ReneeBird]

Originally Posted by simplyred

OK. Bye all.
It's been nice knowing you.

[quote=NewPark;59327283]This is the place where SimplyRed would say that we really don't know that they HADN'T resumed an intimate relationship. QUOTE]

Simplyred, where are you? I sent you a pm awhile back.

[cc.cookie]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

In reading this, all of a sudden I realized something about the "I was wrong" speech just before the birth. Now, maybe most have figured this out already, but I just realized when he said he was wrong about leaving, what he meant was that the decision to leave was wrong. But the problem was that he couldn't do anything about it at that stage. Contracts were signed and there wasn't much he could do about undoing it all. The best he could do at that point was to try to convince Louisa to go with him.

This time he says that none of it matters, so maybe this means he will do whatever is necessary to stay because this is where Louisa is.

Not completely sure about this last bit, but feeling enlightened about the S4 ending speech.

I like this idea and it gives us a much more satisfying explanation than the Portwenn effect.

[cc.cookie]

Originally Posted by Conniej

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/photo....user=657876831

Thanks for the link Connie. I was about to do a search but that link is the best because of the comments that follow!