[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by WelshNige

That is not a fact, that is an opinion, your failure to know the difference explains your attitude.

Right, so to get back to my point, why bother with award ceremonies? Why bestow anyone with the accolade of Best Artist or Best Album or Best Songwriter? They're not really the best anything are they? That's just the opinion of a panel of judges and who's to say they're right?

God knows we've argued a lot over various Best-of (and Worst-of) lists on this forum. It's impossible to come to any consensus because everyone has their own opinion.

My argument from the beginning was not a criticism of Adele per se - she didn't decide to win the award, it was nothing to do with her. She may even be embarrassed about it for all I know and may feel herself that someone else deserved it!

My problem is with why they decided Adele is, at the moment, the best songwriter of the year. My impression is that it's got more to do with bowing to popular opinion than a consensus that she has actually written an album which is better than the hundreds or even thousands of other artists who released albums in 2011. Did the panel listen to every single album released last year and decide hers was the best written? Of course not. And that's why the award is superfluous (and pretty much any award, whether a Novello or an Oscar or a Bafta or a MOBO etc.)

[yellowlabbie]

Originally Posted by Theshane

So because someone is from the same group of land as me I should instantly like them?
Yeah that's pretty sensible.

Not at all, that is your choice but is it necessary to continually 'slag them off' just because they are not your cup of tea especially when they are obviously talented.

[konebyvax]

I do find Polly Jean stans (they are probably going to hate that description but imo it's justified when you look at their behaviour on here) weird. I tried to find a thread on Let England Shake (to basically congratulate PJ on her win and, if I'm being entirely honest, also drag her stans away from spouting their negativity on this thread, lol) but I couldn't find one. Does that mean there isn't one or if there is it's very very old and neglected? Or can I not search properly? Why don't her fans want to discuss her in her own thread/s? It's all very bizarre.

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by rbautz

Oh, your scottish fellow Annie Lennox was more touched than you but maybe she can better recognise good music

'Annie Lennox was more touched than you'
I don't know what that means.
And if Lennox could recognise good music she'd have know enough to leave that Ash cover locked up somewhere.

[yellowlabbie]

Originally Posted by rbautz

Oh, your scottish fellow Annie Lennox was more touched than you but maybe she can better recognise good music

Yes, she brought a tear to my eye did Annie, now there's a lady who does know what she is talking about.

[m06een00]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

My problem is with why they decided Adele is, at the moment, the best songwriter of the year. My impression is that it's got more to do with bowing to popular opinion than a consensus that she has actually written an album which is better than the hundreds or even thousands of other artists who released albums in 2011.

Precisely!

[konebyvax]

Originally Posted by yellowlabbie

Yes, she brought a tear to my eye did Annie, now there's a lady who does know what she is talking about.

Legend. Simple as that. But obviously sold too many records to be accepted by some on here

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by yellowlabbie

Not at all, that is your choice but is it necessary to continually 'slag them off' just because they are not your cup of tea especially when they are obviously talented.

Ok we you stop continually 'biging them up' just because they are your cup of tea and especially when they are not that talented.

The point of this thread is about winning songwriter of the year, yes?
Songwriter. Singular.
But she isn't a solo songwriter, she wrote her album with a bunch of writers. Not singular. So therefore unjust winner of Songwriter of the year.
Now that's not slagging off. That is fact.
Also surely the album that is awarded 'Best Album' would by definition be the best written album of the year?
Unless these guys think some albums write themselves.

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by yellowlabbie

Yes, she brought a tear to my eye did Annie, now there's a lady who does know what she is talking about.

She knows what shes Talking about?
Have you heard her talk she's got StingBonoitis.
Everytime she opens her mouth it's some balls about her latest cause.
Having been in a half decent band 30 years ago gives her platinum discs, not a pulpit.
She takes being born on the 25th of December too much to heart.

[yellowlabbie]

Originally Posted by Theshane

Ok we you stop continually 'biging them up' just because they are your cup of tea and especially when they are not that talented.

The point of this thread is about winning songwriter of the year, yes?
Songwriter. Singular.
But she isn't a solo songwriter, she wrote her album with a bunch of writers. Not singular. So therefore unjust winner of Songwriter of the year.
Now that's not slagging off. That is fact.
Also surely the album that is awarded 'Best Album' would by definition be the best written album of the year?
Unless these guys think some albums write themselves.

It is the singular slagging off of Adele that I find distasteful. There are many, many co-writers who do not get the same nasty attention on here that Adele does.
Anyway, Adele won Songwriter of the year, so you will have to deal with it. Me, I love it and I just smile and smile and I am overjoyed for her.
I also smile a little more when I realise how much it upsets a few people on here.

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by yellowlabbie

It is the singular slagging off of Adele that I find distasteful. There are many, many co-writers who do not get the same nasty attention on here that Adele does.
Anyway, Adele won Songwriter of the year, so you will have to deal with it. Me, I love it and I just smile and smile and I am overjoyed for her.
I also smile a little more when I realise how much it upsets a few people on here.

That's because, and it's in the title of the thread, she won Songwriter even though she isn't or wasnt a songwriter. She was part of a team of writers.
Now, as has been said before, if it was Songwriting team or songwriters of the year, and everyone involved got an award then this thread wouldn't be here.

[konebyvax]

Can someone PLEASE find the Let England Shake thread? I can't find it but it would make this thread a far more harmonious one if some kind person better at searching than me could find it and bump it so PJ's stans can maybe post positively and without rancour there? TIA!

[Smudged]

Originally Posted by konebyvax

I do find Polly Jean stans (they are probably going to hate that description but imo it's justified when you look at their behaviour on here) weird. I tried to find a thread on Let England Shake (to basically congratulate PJ on her win and, if I'm being entirely honest, also drag her stans away from spouting their negativity on this thread, lol) but I couldn't find one. Does that mean there isn't one or if there is it's very very old and neglected? Or can I not search properly? Why don't her fans want to discuss her in her own thread? It's all very bizarre.

lol, you're getting really desperate now. Don't try to bring us all down to your level. You do know that it's possible to like both Adele and PJ Harvey but have the opinion that PJ's album is better and that she's a better songwriter don't you?

This "them and us" fan wars mentality you're rocking is not healthy imo. Music isn't like a sporting competition where artists are rivals (your actual words) and you take sides against opposing fans....and while we're at it, sales figures aren't like sporting league tables either .

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by konebyvax

Can someone PLEASE find the Let England Shake thread? I can't find it but it would make this thread a far more harmonious one if some kind person better at searching than me could find it and bump it so PJ's stans can maybe post positively and without rancour there? TIA!

It's nothing to do with the PJ Harvey album. It's to do with Songwriter of the year being given to a non solo songwriter.
Nobody would award Mark Owen best solo singer because he's part of a group, and probably because he's Mark Owen.
However, Paul Weller would get solo male because he's a solo artist.
I've been looking and can't find who else was nominated for Songwriter of the Year.

[rbautz]

Originally Posted by Theshane

It's nothing to do with the PJ Harvey album. It's to do with Songwriter of the year being given to a non solo songwriter.
Nobody would award Mark Owen best solo singer because he's part of a group, and probably because he's Mark Owen.
However, Paul Weller would get solo male because he's a solo artist.
I've been looking and can't find who else was nominated for Songwriter of the Year.

Maybe because she is the main songwriter? And if you don`t like it, you should E-Mail the Award board.

[m06een00]

Originally Posted by konebyvax

Can someone PLEASE find the Let England Shake thread? I can't find it but it would make this thread a far more harmonious one if some kind person better at searching than me could find it and bump it so PJ's stans can maybe post positively and without rancour there? TIA!

I don't know about on DS, but you can congratulate her perhaps here. Ah,You might have to register first. HTH

[my name is joe]

Originally Posted by Theshane

That is some secret you have there, because according the the inlay for Let England Shake all songs are written by PJ Harvey on her own.

i know it says that i checked first, but she co-wrires with John Parish as usual...i heard her say as much but i'll not find where so i won't try.

Not that it matters in the least, i think she's great - i struggle to listen to her music but i still think she's great

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by rbautz

Maybe because she is the main songwriter? And if you don`t like it, you should E-Mail the Award board.

Maybe because, as someone else said, they felt they
Had to award based on sales so they don't get negative press.
You should see this place when someone less well known wins and award over a big name.
The mingmongs come out with stuff like 'who is she?' 'X sold more than Y so why did Y win?'
'Ive never heard of X why have they won this?'

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by my name is joe

i know it says that i checked first, but she co-wrires with John Parish as usual...i heard her say as much but i'll not find where so i won't try.

Not that it matters in the least, i think she's great - i struggle to listen to her music but i still think she's great

John Parish plays on the album but doesn't have a single writing credit on there.
She wrote the songs and took them to the studio and left room for the musicians, including John Parish, to improvise a bit.
But he didn't write or co write anything on that album.
So there might be a reason it says written by Pj Harvey.
Just throwing that out there.

[my name is joe]

Originally Posted by Theshane

John Parish plays on the album but doesn't have a single writing credit on there.
She wrote the songs and took them to the studio and left room for the musicians, including John Parish, to improvise a bit.
But he didn't write or co write anything on that album.
So there might be a reason it says written by Pj Harvey.
Just throwing that out there.

where does an improvise end and a co-write begin?

[rbautz]

Originally Posted by Theshane

Maybe because, as someone else said, they felt they
Had to award based on sales so they don't get negative press.
You should see this place when someone less well known wins and award over a big name.
The mingmongs come out with stuff like 'who is she?' 'X sold more than Y so why did Y win?'
'Ive never heard of X why have they won this?'

The Award board don`t selects the winner. She is choosen by her songwriter-peers, and they give surely a F...k about sales,

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by my name is joe

where does an improvise end and a co-write begin?

Ok so writing a song with lyrics and tune and melody is on a par with 'how about I add a bit of cymbal here?'

[my name is joe]

Originally Posted by Theshane

Ok so writing a song with lyrics and tune and melody is on a par with 'how about I add a bit of cymbal here?'

nope. I'm just saying there must be a point where the input is enough to qualify as co-writing and was just asking if you or anyone else knew where that fell

[my name is joe]

Originally Posted by rbautz

The Award board don`t selects the winner. She is choosen by her songwriter-peers, and they give surely a F...k about sales,

good point, should have been made much earlier

[Theshane]

Originally Posted by rbautz

The Award board don`t selects the winner. She is choosen by her songwriter-peers, and they give surely a F...k about sales,

So who else was nominated?
And they are people. They could care about sales. People on the whole are stupid.
And clearly, if this was how the winner was chosen, they are stupid, because they can't tell the difference between a songwriter, a person who composes songs, and a team of songwriters.