Stories have varied on this over time. The first and most plausible that I have heard is that Guy Chambers wrote Angels but there was line he was unhappy with and Robbie suggested changing it to "as the feeling grows she breathes flesh to my bones" which Chambers thought was great and thus Williams got his credit.



I don't think it's that simple. One of my favourite artist has written a handful of songs completely by himself, a handful by written others but most is co-written. He generaly refers to himself as a songwriter in interviews and such but get him in a more in depth interview and he will openly say x track was mainly from his mind and y track was mainly from that of his collaborator. Does that mean he isn't a songwriter or shouldn't be classed/marketed as one?

actually, if she wrote the lyrics, or part of them, but no music, she'd have a credit on the lyrics, but not the music. It would read something line lyrics Rihanna / A N Other, Music Rihanna

Yeah you could be right, i dont know the full story and guess only a few people know the full facts. But i think its been made clear RW input into this song was very small but he has stated on many occasions that he wrote the song. I didn't really like RW but lost all respect for him when he tried to hijack guy chambers over this song, its a classic song but you cant take songwriting credits away from the songwriter which is clearly what he was trying to do.

There was also a story of a guy from Dublin who claims that he had written Angels in it's first incarnation and shared it with Robbie during a drunken weekend in Dublin. He alleges that his song was the foundation and that Robbie essentially 'stole' that foundation and that he and Guy Chambers built from it. I'm a bit iffy on the details but I'm pretty sure the guy threatened them with legal action and he ended up being paid a once-off payment and getting a credit on the song.

In defense of Robbie's contribution(s) however, I've read a lot of interviews where Guy Chambers has stated (and still states despite the fallout) that it was a true partnership in the sense that Robbie made as much as a contribution as he did and that it annoys him when people accuse Robbie of not being a songwriter.

I think it's interesting that it terms of quality that neither Guy Chambers or Robbie have since matched the standard of their previous work together (in my opinion of course).

Robbie Williams= Pub Singer .

but there have always been instances of plagiarism in popular music usually settled out of court and for a fee of some sort its like sampling you can't just sample you have to give due credit.

the story about angels is true. ray heffernan was apparently given a one off payment of £7,500 to relinquish any rights to royalties and was not credited. so theoretically he or his record company bought his career launching song. i think robbie probably is quite hands on when it comes to writing song lyrics, the lyrics do seem fitting to him has a person. the thing is we can only assume or go on what is reported or discussed in interviews.

i don't agree he is a glorified pub singer though. he has achieved considerable success for quite some time now.

I respect his achievements but i have no interest in him musically Guy chambers is as much responsible for his career as he is.

in your opinion, maybe you should add. its certainly not a proven fact. you don't find it so amusing when people call adele a pub singer, so perhaps you shouldn't dish it out so quickly.

I have no problem with that call her a pub singer all you want its when it is based on personal dislike i have a problem with i dont mind Robbie its his music i dislike but hey ho its all just my opinion.

i have never called either of them a pub singer and i like both of them. it just stuck me as ironic considering the amount of posts you make defending her. it is pretty personal to dismiss someone like that and it wasn't even relevant to your thread.

I never said you had and i made it as a comment in passing as a joke before staying on topic i was never dismissive of him i praised his achievements and said i thought Guy chambers played as much a part in it as him which is a fair assement as he co-wrote the bulk of his material.

What i did not do which is why i defend Adele is belittle him disregard him and discredit him on the basis of sales and how many awards he has won or because he is widely popular.

Yes, that's his name. I couldn't remember earlier so thanks! I remember hearing snippets from Heffernan's version during an interview and you could definitely hear similarities and that it was the foundation of the song but the final product is definitely a lot more developed and it changed quite a bit. Still though, the acknowledgment should've been there in the first place and God, £7,500 for a song that became an anthem

I agree with you regarding the lyrics. You can hear his stamp all over the most recent Take That album even.

it was difficult to find sarcasm in the sweeping statement you posted, but i agree it is off topic and non constructive to the thread.

apparently, heffernan version of the song was called `fallen angels` and it was guy that wrote the all important chorus. however, i do agree heffernan should have received a credit considering his obvious input.

Oh yeah was really a sweeping statement i made an oppinion of whcich I myself and have invited no one else in to agree believe based on musical merit and nothing else as is the case with others which is where i see no irony if i had dismissed him on basis of sales awards etc then fair enough and i also didnt set out to offend or antagonise anyone as is so often the case with Adele.

But we will end it here and say no more of it.

and i challenged that opinion. if you want to just put opinions out there and not be challenged then try twitter, but even there opinions get challenged. you don't see the irony and i don't see the sarcasm. lets agree to disagree.

No i like to be Challenged hence the response

And yes lets get back on track where were we oh yes co-writes

Hasn't Beyonce been guilty of taking full credit for songs she hasn't contributed fully to? I have heard loads of stories. I remember when she was sued by Des'ree a few years ago during her Bday era.

Yes she often takes credit for Irreplaceable which Ne-Yo has stated he worte on his own or with others but certainly not her and with Des'eree it was she sampled her song i am kissing you but was strictly told not to film a video or change the title which she then did breaking the deal so she got sued and banned from releasing it

des`ree also sued janet jackson for `got 'til it's gone`. it is fair enough really, but i did find it funny because loads of des`ree songs sound the same.

Never knew that with Janet

Yeah she did take credit with Irreplaceable. I have also heard her take credit for If I Were A Boy (i don't have proof) but she never even wrote it. Some girl wrote it on her own.

to be fair, she is not credited on that song.

No way now you say it the beginning of the verse sounds familiar i get the feeling some artists think its okay to take credit when someone is unknown or not widely familliar as they think they can get away with it.

I dont think she is credited on Irreplaceable but it doesnt stop her in interviews

she is credited on that song though. it depends i guess on her actual contribution. maybe she changed a few words.

is this in response to the des`ree suing janet? to be fair des`ree had a big hit in the us with `you gotta be` and that didn't sound a million miles away from `feels so high`.