[CELT1987]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

That's what went wrong with the yuppy theme really - if Rodney had at least once defended Del when they were with his yuppy friends and said Del didn't have much of an education because he was too busy working to support the family that would have changed the whole feel of the show. Instead he squirmed in embarrassment as though condoning the snobbery. It was like he was siding with his yuppy mates against Del by staying silent - same with Royal Flush. There could have been some good social commentary going on with the yuppy theme and with Royal Flush but instead all we got was Del behaving like a 42 carat plonker. I mean why would he want to associate with yuppies who looked down their noses at him? Was it deliberately designed to make him look like an idiot? Because if so it worked.

I think that was the plan, to make Del look stupid being a yuppie. I blame Wall Street and Gordon Gekko.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by CELT1987

I think that was the plan, to make Del look stupid being a yuppie. I blame Wall Street and Gordon Gekko.

Well John Sullivan certainly seemed to have an obsession with it at one point. But sympathy for the character got lost along the way.

[Stella28]

Originally Posted by JEFF62

Yes I am surprised about the series 6 backlash. I always thought most fans thought the period from Dates to Jolly Boys Outing was the best the series got. I love series six, especially The Unlucky Winner Is... That Groovy Gang bit makes me laugh no matter how many times I see it.

I think the Unlucky Winner Is very funny as well. I love The Groovy Gang bit and when Rodney falls off his skateboard because of a "poksy lizard."

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

If you could point me to where the gags were in Series 6 (other than Danger UXD and a few others scattered around) I'd agree with you but, much as I wanted to like Series 6 because others had said it was the best, I really struggled to find much humour in it..

The gags were throughout every story. Yuppy Love, Danger UXD, Chain Gang, The Unlucky Winner Is and Little Problems are perhaps the best ever for me. If you don't like them, well, as I say, it's just down to taste. (Sickness and Wealth is perhaps a slightly weaker entry in the series)

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by CELT1987

I think that was the plan, to make Del look stupid being a yuppie. I blame Wall Street and Gordon Gekko.

Del was exactly the sort of guy who would have decided to be like Gordon Gekko though, though of course he never would have really been like him as he was too warm-hearted. But he'd have admired the drive and the success, and tried to cultivate some of his manners to impress people. Come on, Del always was a bit of an absurd character. He didn't change radically in that period.

[pjw1985]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

The gags were throughout every story. Yuppy Love, Danger UXD, Chain Gang, The Unlucky Winner Is and Little Problems are perhaps the best ever for me. If you don't like them, well, as I say, it's just down to taste. (Sickness and Wealth is perhaps a slightly weaker entry in the series)

i'd say its not quite as good as the other 5, but is still an excellent episode. Highlights being the seance with Elsie Partridge (sounds like Jimmy Saville!) Del's visit to the dr (mr Trotter when i said strip to the waist i meant the top half!), being scared to go to the hospital by himself (i don't care if Home And Away has just started!.... Rodney i don't want to go by myself) and getting upset when he realises there was nothing wrong all along.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

Del was exactly the sort of guy who would have decided to be like Gordon Gekko though, though of course he never would have really been like him as he was too warm-hearted. But he'd have admired the drive and the success, and tried to cultivate some of his manners to impress people. Come on, Del always was a bit of an absurd character. He didn't change radically in that period.

Yes he did because he was never concerned with social superiority and he never had delusions of grandeur - all he ever wanted was to be very very rich so the idea that he would suddenly hang around with a bunch of yuppies and consider himself to be one was off the scale - like Royal Flush where he stood out like a sore thumb. That said, he was always a bit of a pretentious so and so with his french phrases (even though he was "still struggling with English). Maybe it was more to do with the fact that at that stage he became the subject of the joke - in the past it had been dopey brother Rodney. Now all of a sudden, since meeting Cassandra, Rodney had gone all sophisticated and started to show how embarrassed he was to have Del as his brother and didn't do anything to defend him. In earlier episodes John Sullivan would have probably used that situation to show the bond that existed in the family but instead it showed how distant they were becoming. The series even ends with Rodney starting a new life with a new wife and a new job in a new flat. When Rodney showed up back at the flat at the end of the episode it was like the old dopey Rodney had returned and series 7 continued much as previous ones had been.

[ardmajell55]

Originally Posted by pjw1985

i'd say its not quite as good as the other 5, but is still an excellent episode. Highlights being the seance with Elsie Partridge (sounds like Jimmy Saville!) Del's visit to the dr (mr Trotter when i said strip to the waist i meant the top half!), being scared to go to the hospital by himself (i don't care if Home And Away has just started!.... Rodney i don't want to go by myself) and getting upset when he realises there was nothing wrong all along.

pjw The most cutting remark by 'Joan Trotter' through Elsie during the seance, and the funniest, was the line 'I know you both did your best to be successful......but never mind'. Del's and Rodney's faces were a picture.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

Yes he did because he was never concerned with social superiority and he never had delusions of grandeur - all he ever wanted was to be very very rich so the idea that he would suddenly hang around with a bunch of yuppies and consider himself to be one was off the scale - like Royal Flush where he stood out like a sore thumb. That said, he was always a bit of a pretentious so and so with his french phrases (even though he was "still struggling with English). Maybe it was more to do with the fact that at that stage he became the subject of the joke - in the past it had been dopey brother Rodney. Now all of a sudden, since meeting Cassandra, Rodney had gone all sophisticated and started to show how embarrassed he was to have Del as his brother and didn't do anything to defend him. In earlier episodes John Sullivan would have probably used that situation to show the bond that existed in the family but instead it showed how distant they were becoming. The series even ends with Rodney starting a new life with a new wife and a new job in a new flat. When Rodney showed up back at the flat at the end of the episode it was like the old dopey Rodney had returned and series 7 continued much as previous ones had been.

Rodney certainly did change. Del, I think, less so.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

Rodney certainly did change. Del, I think, less so.

Well as you pointed out earlier Rodney was always a snob. Maybe he was just better (imo) at being the dopey brother than the more savvy one. But what it all boils down to is, like you said, a case of different tastes. And for me there just weren't enough laughs in series 6.

[supernovadragon]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

Well as you pointed out earlier Rodney was always a snob. Maybe he was just better (imo) at being the dopey brother than the more savvy one. But what it all boils down to is, like you said, a case of different tastes. And for me there just weren't enough laughs in series 6.

And I agree with you 100%

[adam822108]

Loved reading through this thread and hearing everyone's opions on the episodes and people mensioning eps that I had forgotten about! Good memories!

[Radical Joe]

Originally Posted by steveh31

Yes anything after they decided to let Del and Rodney get married the show for me was about a dodgy street dealer and his young brother for me it was ruined when they let them get married.

I was a big fan of Grandad so his death is really where I went off it.

I wouldn't say there were no good episodes after Del got maried, but I definitely prefer the earlier stuff in general. It was edgier and fresher. Once Del got married (and, to a lesser extent, when Rodney got paired off) it went a bit too mainstream and family orientated for my liking, getting downright mawkish at times. Some people obviously like all that in a comedy show (like in post 21), but not me.

[CELT1987]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

I wouldn't say there were no good episodes after Del got maried, but I definitely prefer the earlier stuff in general. It was edgier and fresher. Once Del got married (and, to a lesser extent, when Rodney got paired off) it went a bit too mainstream and family orientated for my liking, getting downright mawkish at times. Some people obviously like all that in a comedy show (like in post 21), but not me.

Del never got married, he just lived with Raquel.

[PopRocket]

Originally Posted by steven1977

Yeah every episode after they won the millions. Should of left well enough alone.

Agree 100% I always said that should have been the last episode

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by Radical Joe

I wouldn't say there were no good episodes after Del got maried, but I definitely prefer the earlier stuff in general. It was edgier and fresher. Once Del got married (and, to a lesser extent, when Rodney got paired off) it went a bit too mainstream and family orientated for my liking, getting downright mawkish at times. Some people obviously like all that in a comedy show (like in post 21), but not me.

Have I been watching the same programme? I've always considered Fools and Horses to be mainstream. It was always scheduled at primetime and before the 9pm watershed - although judging by the cuts that have been made since, maybe it wasn't as mainstream as I thought!

ps there's nothing wrong with a bit of sentimentality (as long as it doesn't become mawkish as it did at times) - it makes the characters more human and less one-dimensional Basil Fawlty type figures.

[Glenn A]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

Well as you pointed out earlier Rodney was always a snob. Maybe he was just better (imo) at being the dopey brother than the more savvy one. But what it all boils down to is, like you said, a case of different tastes. And for me there just weren't enough laughs in series 6.

Didn't he become very left wing for a while in the 1989 series and then moved to the right when he met Cassandra. Actually I blame Cassandra for weakening the show as the 1990 Christmas special became like a soap.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by Glenn A

Didn't he become very left wing for a while in the 1989 series and then moved to the right when he met Cassandra. Actually I blame Cassandra for weakening the show as the 1990 Christmas special became like a soap.

Well John Sullivan's attempts to write for women didn't help matters but series 7 showed having women in the cast needn't make the programme a soap opera. Although Miami Twice, Chain Gang and Heroes and Villains sidelined the women and weren't any better than the episodes where it became a soap opera.

[allthingsuk]

I actually liked Series 6 a lot - my favourite episodes from S6 have to be Sickness and Wealth, Danger UXD and The Unlucky Winner Is.... The decline IMO started with the 2001 Christmas special and the specials after that, which weren't a patch on the 1996 one, and showed that the show shouldn't have returned as Del Boy and Rodney had their happy ending as millionaires.

[CELT1987]

Originally Posted by allthingsuk

I actually liked Series 6 a lot - my favourite episodes from S6 have to be Sickness and Wealth, Danger UXD and The Unlucky Winner Is.... The decline IMO started with the 2001 Christmas special and the specials after that, which weren't a patch on the 1996 one, and showed that the show shouldn't have returned as Del Boy and Rodney had their happy ending as millionaires.

The 2001 special had problems as both the actors who played Albert and Mike died, I think this affected the production and Albert was definately missed. The problem John Sullivan had, was to make the Trotters lose their fortune, as keeping them rich would have defeated the reason for the carrying on. I don't think it was that unlikley that Del would have blown the money on investing, investing in companies was big at that time. I would have rather they ended it in 1996 as it went out on a high.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by CELT1987

The 2001 special had problems as both the actors who played Albert and Mike died, I think this affected the production and Albert was definately missed.

And after the consideration that was given to the excellent script when Leonard Pearce died, the death of Albert wasn't treated half as sensitively. The dash to the other church when they realised they were at the wrong one was a farce unworthy of a John Sullivan script and the sentiment seemed false i.e. when Del was defending Albert's "during the war" speeches. After years of not wanting to hear them you would think he would agree that yes he did "go on a bit" instead of threatening to give the other mourner at the church (some relative or other?) a knuckle sandwich. The death of Mike was treated just as, if not more, shabbily because it tarnished his image by painting him as a crook. It seemed as though there was far less care and respect taken over the death of the actors who played Mike and Albert than was taken in the past with Leonard Pearce. He may as well have just replaced both characters with different actors and have done with it..

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by ilovecorrie2

Have I been watching the same programme? I've always considered Fools and Horses to be mainstream. It was always scheduled at primetime and before the 9pm watershed - although judging by the cuts that have been made since, maybe it wasn't as mainstream as I thought!

It was totally mainstream.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by Glenn A

Didn't he become very left wing for a while in the 1989 series and then moved to the right when he met Cassandra. Actually I blame Cassandra for weakening the show as the 1990 Christmas special became like a soap.

Rodney was always left-wing. I don't think he ever moved to the right. We never really saw or heard anything much of Cassandra's political opinions; from the (admittedly flimsy) evidence of her joining Rodney in objecting to Del giving Raquel what they thought was a fur coat, I suspect she largely shared his leftish politics.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by CELT1987

The 2001 special had problems as both the actors who played Albert and Mike died, I think this affected the production and Albert was definately missed. The problem John Sullivan had, was to make the Trotters lose their fortune, as keeping them rich would have defeated the reason for the carrying on. I don't think it was that unlikley that Del would have blown the money on investing, investing in companies was big at that time. I would have rather they ended it in 1996 as it went out on a high.

I agree that it was necessary to make them lose their money to make more. I think John Sullivan's mistake was in giving in to requests to make more. The 1996 ending was excellent and couldn't be topped.

[ilovecorrie2]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

It was totally mainstream.

I have a feeling the original post I replied to on this was a wind up but there is a point therein. It was mainstream when it was first broadcast but with all the cuts being made nowadays it makes you wonder how much of it would remain intact if it was made today. Even words like sod and git are being axed. Bizarre!