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Richard Dawkins the arch-atheist backs Michael Gove's free Bible plan


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Old 21-05-2012, 13:15
doom&gloom
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:18
peon
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It's not a contradiction in the slightest. Of course, some ideas are objectionable.
to me, it is ludicrous to be offended by somebody's belief in an instrument of harm and the reasons for being sent there as they are only applicable to anybody who subscribes to that belief. otherwise, the insult is, well, nothing. it doesn't actually mean anything to anybody else. this is what people of differing faiths or non-faiths have squabbled over since time began. an apparent reproach, which in reality has no power over a person of differing beliefs whatsoever. none.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:18
mrcreosote
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Yeah, I'm guessing if there is a God then some people are going to get a bit of a surprise when its time for them there hellfires
Well, I guess it depends out which God turns out to be real - since there are a few thousand different religions and they all think that their God is the real one

I think the following quote from Stephen F. Roberts is very apt here:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:19
Lizzy11268
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
I don't think he gives a shite to be honest.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:21
Keiō Line
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
It probably "kills him" that we are segregating children at age 5 because of the faith of the parents.I would imagine he would want children to learn side by side no matter what thier background is.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:21
KidMoe
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
Probably not, seeing as the reason for behind faith schools outperforming state schools is not the god bothering aspect.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:22
kimindex
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to me, it is ludicrous to be offended by somebody's belief in an instrument of harm and the reasons for being sent there as they are only applicable to anybody who subscribes to that belief. otherwise, the insult is, well, nothing. it doesn't actually mean anything to anybody else. this is what people of differing faiths or non-faiths have squabbled over since time began. an apparent reproach, which in reality has no power over a person of differing beliefs whatsoever. none.
And it's absurd to suggest that no one can object to an argument because they don't themselves share the belief.

I don't believe the Royal Family are superior sorts of humans but I find the idea that some people do peculiar and wrong.

The idea of hell is despicable and has affected people over the centuries and many now. It has been a powerful idea. That I don't believe in it doesn't change that or how I feel about the idea or the people promoting it.

Whether you don't object personally to any ideas at all that you don't believe in is up to you.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:23
Nard Dog
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Probably not, seeing as the reason for behind faith schools outperforming state schools is not the god bothering aspect.
Precisely.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:24
Nard Dog
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and yet some people manage to be all of the above without faith.
Which shows you what a crock the concept is
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:28
doom&gloom
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Probably not, seeing as the reason for behind faith schools outperforming state schools is not the god bothering aspect.
Children in those schools are taught morals and values that children in non-religious schools aren't, I don't know how you can say that this has no effect on exam results.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:28
Chester666666
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
I dunno how they are the best when they choose who enter, push a bigoted agenda and make no allowances for the fact that even within a religion people still have different perspectives and beliefs
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:29
zx50
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Well, I guess it depends out which God turns out to be real - since there are a few thousand different religions and they all think that their God is the real one

I think the following quote from Stephen F. Roberts is very apt here:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Some believe that God exists but don't label them with the name of a specific religion.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:29
Chester666666
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Children in those schools are taught morals and values that children in non-religious schools aren't, I don't know how you can say that this has no effect on exam results.
Like hatred, lies, bigotry and intolerance?
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:32
mrcreosote
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Children in those schools are taught morals and values that children in non-religious schools aren't, I don't know how you can say that this has no effect on exam results.
Actually, I think studies have shown that the performance variance between faith and secular schools can largely be explained by differences in pupil intake - faith schools tend to recruit from a more affluent middle-class background and, frequently, have admission tests that act to screen out potential poor performers...
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:37
Eraserhead
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Children in those schools are taught morals and values that children in non-religious schools aren't, I don't know how you can say that this has no effect on exam results.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that faith schools are selective and have been used by the middle classes as a way of avoiding putting their children into "ordinary" state schools full of kids from the local council estates who are poor and from poorly-educated families.

Faith schools have been chanelled into becoming ersatz grammar schools, populated by children from better-off homes who can't afford to send their kids to private schools but who want a better standard of education for their children without the risk of disruption from the local oiks.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:40
KidMoe
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Children in those schools are taught morals and values that children in non-religious schools aren't, I don't know how you can say that this has no effect on exam results.
I can say it quite easily. Faith schools get to pick which students attend. Shockingly, they tend to choose the brighter students, hence exam results tend to be higher.

All us pesky, immoral athiests go to schools where we get caught to kill, steal, worship false idols and dishonour our parents so there isn't much time for maths and english.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:44
doom&gloom
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I went to a faith school and there were loads of children from poor backgrounds there.

They teach you values like working hard and the difference between right and wrong, of course that has an effect on exam results.

They produce better-behaved children and more productive adults.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:46
Lizzy11268
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I went to a faith school and there were loads of children from poor backgrounds there.

They teach you values like working hard and the difference between right and wrong, of course that has an effect on exam results.

They produce better-behaved children and more productive adults.
No they don't. The produce over judgemental, up themselves little oiks for the most part.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:48
peon
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And it's absurd to suggest that no one can object to an argument because they don't themselves share the belief.

I don't believe the Royal Family are superior sorts of humans but I find the idea that some people do peculiar and wrong.

The idea of hell is despicable and has affected people over the centuries and many now. It has been a powerful idea. That I don't believe in it doesn't change that or how I feel about the idea or the people promoting it.

Whether you don't object personally to any ideas at all that you don't believe in is up to you.
if you don't believe in something, how can you find it despicable. it doesn't exist to you as a concept.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:49
KidMoe
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I went to a faith school and there were loads of children from poor backgrounds there.

They teach you values like working hard and the difference between right and wrong, of course that has an effect on exam results.

They produce better-behaved children and more productive adults.
Nothing to do with rich and poor. It's to do with selecting the brightest kids and often smaller class sizes. If a school can exclude less-abled children (such a christian thing to do) then it stands to reason exam results will tend towards better than average.

If they produce better behaved kids (a claim which I am highly skeptical about) then that is merely a side-effect of being able to exclude potential trouble-makers. Nothing to do with so-called 'christian values'.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:50
peon
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No they don't. The produce over judgemental, up themselves little oiks for the most part.
not true.
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Old 21-05-2012, 13:53
Richard46
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It must kill Dawkins that the best schools are faith schools, that they get the best exams results and are massively oversubscribed.
I would hope it would grieve all genuinely religious people that their faith is promoted as a way of giving some children a head start over others particularly when religious discrimination is the method.
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Old 21-05-2012, 14:04
Lizzy11268
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Is so!
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Old 21-05-2012, 14:05
kimindex
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if you don't believe in something, how can you find it despicable. it doesn't exist to you as a concept.
Of course, concepts exist. As concepts. Ideas and that sort of stuff. You can have an opinion about an idea. Well, not you, clearly.
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Old 21-05-2012, 14:05
peon
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Which shows you what a crock the concept is
equally it shows that some people are just dicks, whether they subscribe to a religion or not.
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