Graham Oswick's marks in Samba and Jive are absolutely ridiculous! No chance in hell. I actually find it quite offensive really that he has ranked a couple who are within the top three in the whole world, who are well established international superstars, behind couples who were damn lucky to even make it into the final at all!
Blackpool Dance Festival 2012
5 of 5
WTF. Oh my. That's how I was with some of the marks in previous years for M&J.
I mean, I understand, as do you that not all judges like all of the competitors but I think some of the marks were too personal and NOT based on dancing which is what it should be based on. I think for any of the competitors who are in the top portion, their marks should reflect this and be on the scores of 1-3 perhaps a 4 at the lowest, but anything below that, is offensive and ridiculous!
I mean, I understand, as do you that not all judges like all of the competitors but I think some of the marks were too personal and NOT based on dancing which is what it should be based on. I think for any of the competitors who are in the top portion, their marks should reflect this and be on the scores of 1-3 perhaps a 4 at the lowest, but anything below that, is offensive and ridiculous!
Even the 4 in Paso from Chris Hawkins is a joke, but then again, he probably didn't really understand what he was looking at . . .
Haha!
Glad you share my annoyance at being offended by ridiculous scores. I was getting that a lot by certain judges (you know the ones) in 2010/2011!
Glad you share my annoyance at being offended by ridiculous scores. I was getting that a lot by certain judges (you know the ones) in 2010/2011!
A Blackpool dance lasts 100 seconds, so an average of 14 seconds to mark each of 7 couples. It amazes me what a judge standing at one end of the rectangle can see within 14 seconds what goes on at the other end 140(?) feet away.
During those 14 seconds a couple just may be going through a bad move or be impeded through no fault of their own. Later on, when not watched by the judge far away, this couple could be dancing brilliantly.
Here is a view from a judge:
http://www.dancearchives.net/2012/04...n-adjudicator/
During those 14 seconds a couple just may be going through a bad move or be impeded through no fault of their own. Later on, when not watched by the judge far away, this couple could be dancing brilliantly.
Here is a view from a judge:
http://www.dancearchives.net/2012/04...n-adjudicator/
Why do that when it's more fun to pick obscure numbers out of the air, mark people before they've even danced or mark them on whether you train them/have trained them/once shared a lift with them in 1999?!
Originally Posted by * Becca *:
“A judge actually marking what they see in front of them?! Surely not!”
“A judge actually marking what they see in front of them?! Surely not!”
In tennis the Magic Eye has now deprived us of John McEnroe's magical "You cannot be serious."
In racing there is a photo-finish and Stewards Enquiry.
In law there can be appeal against mistrial or judge bias going all the way towards Supreme Court if you can afford it. Nevertheless miscarriage of justice still goes on.
Bill Irvine was ahead of his time.
I am running now to a safe shelter before my idealistic heart catches a cold.
The elephant not in the room was ballroom World No.2 Mirko Gozzoli, and partner Edita Daniute who had announced in March 2012 her retirement from competition to spend more time with family. All best wishes to Edita 
.
http://danceballroomgossip.blogspot....mpetitive.html
In their absence World No.1 couple simply obliterated the opposition.
11 Judges
A Len Armstrong
B Vicky Barr
C Karen Hardy
D Christopher Hawkins
E Karen Hilton
F Lorna Lee
G Graham Oswick
H Robin Short
I Sammy Stopford
J David Sycamore
K Pat Thompson
A B C D E F G H I J K
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 -- 11 - Arunas and Katusha win Waltz
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 4 6 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 6 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Slow Foxtrot
2 2 2 2 3 2 1 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 4 7 3 2 3 3 3 3 4 6 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Tango
3 2 2 2 3 1 2 2 3 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
2 3 4 3 2 3 4 3 2 3 5 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Quickstep
2 3 2 4 3 1 2 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 2 5 2 2 3 4 3 3 3 7 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
. http://danceballroomgossip.blogspot....mpetitive.html
In their absence World No.1 couple simply obliterated the opposition.
11 Judges
A Len Armstrong
B Vicky Barr
C Karen Hardy
D Christopher Hawkins
E Karen Hilton
F Lorna Lee
G Graham Oswick
H Robin Short
I Sammy Stopford
J David Sycamore
K Pat Thompson
A B C D E F G H I J K
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 -- 11 - Arunas and Katusha win Waltz
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 4 6 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 6 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Slow Foxtrot
2 2 2 2 3 2 1 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 4 7 3 2 3 3 3 3 4 6 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Tango
3 2 2 2 3 1 2 2 3 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
2 3 4 3 2 3 4 3 2 3 5 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 -- 10 - Arunas and Katusha win Quickstep
2 3 2 4 3 1 2 2 2 2 2 --- 1 - Victor and Anastasia
3 2 5 2 2 3 4 3 3 3 7 --- 0 - Andrea and Sara
WDSF (renamed from IDSF) which started the war 5 years ago has now totally climbed down (announced sotto voce on a back page of their website). No more expulsion from WDSF events for anyone daring to participate in WDF comps. All existing suspensions are lifted. The war is over.
http://www.worlddancesport.org/Notic...ical_Codes-910
Here is the worldwide alliance which broke the WDSF hegemony:
Mrs Tim, Zoran and Tatsiana the WDSF latin world champions are therefore eligible to return and square up to Michael and Joanna next year.
http://www.dancebeatworld.com/
Detailed USA magazine reports on 8 days of Blackpool Festival (latin championship is on Day 6) -- but are they as much fun to read as this thread?
http://www.worlddancesport.org/Notic...ical_Codes-910
Quote:
“On 17 June 2012, the WDSF General Meeting resolved to abstain forthwith from applying the sanctions contemplated in the current ethical codes for athletes and officials taking part in “Non-WDSF Events”.
While the WDSF Codes of Conduct and Standards (Athletes' Code; Adjudicators' Code) remain in effect unchanged as Operating Policies, sanctions will no longer be imposed on athletes and adjudicators who choose to participate in competitions not listed on the official WDSF Calendar.
Those athletes and officials who are currently under suspension for having taken part in “Non-WDSF Events” in the past can apply to their National Member Bodies for their suspensions to be lifted with immediate effect.”
“On 17 June 2012, the WDSF General Meeting resolved to abstain forthwith from applying the sanctions contemplated in the current ethical codes for athletes and officials taking part in “Non-WDSF Events”.
While the WDSF Codes of Conduct and Standards (Athletes' Code; Adjudicators' Code) remain in effect unchanged as Operating Policies, sanctions will no longer be imposed on athletes and adjudicators who choose to participate in competitions not listed on the official WDSF Calendar.
Those athletes and officials who are currently under suspension for having taken part in “Non-WDSF Events” in the past can apply to their National Member Bodies for their suspensions to be lifted with immediate effect.”
Here is the worldwide alliance which broke the WDSF hegemony:
Quote:
“USA Dance Executive Committee representatives attending the WDSF AGM were Ken Richards, DanceSport Vice President, and Lydia Scardina, President. USA Dance united with eight additional National Governing Bodies representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Sweden, New Zealand, Finland, Iceland, Wales and Denmark. The nine-country group had joined together to defend the athlete’s “freedom to participate” in DanceSport competitions and events throughout the world, a policy that USA Dance has strongly defended in the United States for both athletes and officials. At the meeting itself, the nine countries were joined by additional supporting countries, which included Portugal and England, whose representatives spoke in support of removing the WDSF suspensions.
At the WDSF meeting, USA Dance and Denmark also presented letters from their respective National Olympic Committees, outlining why the WDSF policy of suspending athletes was not acceptable under the provisions of the Olympic Charter and the laws of individual nations.
Among the most significant statements during the WDSF meeting was read from the letter provided by the United States Olympic Committee to USA Dance and presented by USA Dance President Scardina:
“. . . athletes should not be used as pawns in disagreements between sports organizations. Stated in another way, athletes should not be used as a way to gain an advantage by one organization over another. This not only is in violation of the athlete’s right to practice sport,
but merely causes retaliation by both organizations against athletes who compete in the other organization’s events, placing the athletes in the middle, without recourse and without having committed any wrong, except fulfilling their desire to compete. It further ignores that competition among organizations can be beneficial to sport.”
The U.S. Olympic Committee letter also warned that “. . .suspending U.S. athletes, merely because they participated or are intending to participate in a rival organization’s event, threatens the USOC’s and USA Dance’s compliance with the Olympic Charter, violates the (Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports) Act and USOC Bylaws and contravenes the principles of fair play. Accordingly, such actions cannot be enforced in the U.S.”
Additionally, the delegate from Germany reported receiving a similar reply from the International Olympic Committee outlining why the suspension of athletes was not an acceptable practice.
The Canadian Federation President Sandy Brittain, Ken Richards of USA Dance, as well as representatives from various countries, further spoke about both legal and administrative difficulties that National Governing Bodies faced implementing with consistency the suspension policies.
After listening to the delegates’ statements and understanding the growing discontent which the suspensions had created throughout the global DanceSport community, the WDSF Presidium announced that it would no longer suspend athletes and officials for participating in competitions outside of the WDSF and would remove any current suspensions in place.”
“USA Dance Executive Committee representatives attending the WDSF AGM were Ken Richards, DanceSport Vice President, and Lydia Scardina, President. USA Dance united with eight additional National Governing Bodies representing the countries of Canada, Germany, Sweden, New Zealand, Finland, Iceland, Wales and Denmark. The nine-country group had joined together to defend the athlete’s “freedom to participate” in DanceSport competitions and events throughout the world, a policy that USA Dance has strongly defended in the United States for both athletes and officials. At the meeting itself, the nine countries were joined by additional supporting countries, which included Portugal and England, whose representatives spoke in support of removing the WDSF suspensions.
At the WDSF meeting, USA Dance and Denmark also presented letters from their respective National Olympic Committees, outlining why the WDSF policy of suspending athletes was not acceptable under the provisions of the Olympic Charter and the laws of individual nations.
Among the most significant statements during the WDSF meeting was read from the letter provided by the United States Olympic Committee to USA Dance and presented by USA Dance President Scardina:
“. . . athletes should not be used as pawns in disagreements between sports organizations. Stated in another way, athletes should not be used as a way to gain an advantage by one organization over another. This not only is in violation of the athlete’s right to practice sport,
but merely causes retaliation by both organizations against athletes who compete in the other organization’s events, placing the athletes in the middle, without recourse and without having committed any wrong, except fulfilling their desire to compete. It further ignores that competition among organizations can be beneficial to sport.”
The U.S. Olympic Committee letter also warned that “. . .suspending U.S. athletes, merely because they participated or are intending to participate in a rival organization’s event, threatens the USOC’s and USA Dance’s compliance with the Olympic Charter, violates the (Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports) Act and USOC Bylaws and contravenes the principles of fair play. Accordingly, such actions cannot be enforced in the U.S.”
Additionally, the delegate from Germany reported receiving a similar reply from the International Olympic Committee outlining why the suspension of athletes was not an acceptable practice.
The Canadian Federation President Sandy Brittain, Ken Richards of USA Dance, as well as representatives from various countries, further spoke about both legal and administrative difficulties that National Governing Bodies faced implementing with consistency the suspension policies.
After listening to the delegates’ statements and understanding the growing discontent which the suspensions had created throughout the global DanceSport community, the WDSF Presidium announced that it would no longer suspend athletes and officials for participating in competitions outside of the WDSF and would remove any current suspensions in place.”
Mrs Tim, Zoran and Tatsiana the WDSF latin world champions are therefore eligible to return and square up to Michael and Joanna next year.
http://www.dancebeatworld.com/
Detailed USA magazine reports on 8 days of Blackpool Festival (latin championship is on Day 6) -- but are they as much fun to read as this thread?
The war is far from over. The bans have been lifted, that's true, but now any dancer who wishes to dance in WDSF events will be conned into signing a declaration to formally acknowledge that they accept certain obligations and the restrictions that are imposed on them as a result. So absolutely nothing has changed. Freedom? I think not. Just a different path to the same end.
I doubt Zoran will dance again now - if he does, it will just make him look like he is admitting to being weak and a coward. Plus, he wouldn't even stand a chance of scraping into the final against the real professionals.
I doubt Zoran will dance again now - if he does, it will just make him look like he is admitting to being weak and a coward. Plus, he wouldn't even stand a chance of scraping into the final against the real professionals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2gFUlueqdo
The sound of this pirate video is tinny, without the richness and warmth of the 14-piece Empress Band. At the start of the jive, all lady judges wearing rainbow dresses stood in front of the stage. Across the dance floor stood gentlemen judges in cumulus-white dinner jackets.
As soon as the jive began the audience went bananas. It was the last dance in the Final, and for latin fans the last dance of Blackpool week -- like the moment Big Ben chimed TWELVE on New Years Eve.
This video clip is actually how the audience saw it at ground level except for the wobbly camera. in the foreground danced Sergey and Melia (with pony tail), Andrej and Melinda (with bare back), Markus and Ksenia (in long crimson dress). In the middle ground, in front of VIP of VIPs danced Riccardo and Yulia (in luminous white dress), Anton and Ekaterina, Maurizio and Andra . At the far end danced Michael and Joanna (wearing gold dress). Even if seated in the second row you would not see everything, least of all if standing behind 8 rows minus my Argos box.
The jive, the 25th dance of the day for Finalists, was perpetual motion, with Yulia like a living flame.
The sound of this pirate video is tinny, without the richness and warmth of the 14-piece Empress Band. At the start of the jive, all lady judges wearing rainbow dresses stood in front of the stage. Across the dance floor stood gentlemen judges in cumulus-white dinner jackets.
As soon as the jive began the audience went bananas. It was the last dance in the Final, and for latin fans the last dance of Blackpool week -- like the moment Big Ben chimed TWELVE on New Years Eve.
This video clip is actually how the audience saw it at ground level except for the wobbly camera. in the foreground danced Sergey and Melia (with pony tail), Andrej and Melinda (with bare back), Markus and Ksenia (in long crimson dress). In the middle ground, in front of VIP of VIPs danced Riccardo and Yulia (in luminous white dress), Anton and Ekaterina, Maurizio and Andra . At the far end danced Michael and Joanna (wearing gold dress). Even if seated in the second row you would not see everything, least of all if standing behind 8 rows minus my Argos box.
The jive, the 25th dance of the day for Finalists, was perpetual motion, with Yulia like a living flame.
The boy taking that video was stood just behind me and my friends. So that's pretty much exactly how I saw it, except that I was just a little bit closer.
Thanks Becca for eyewitness evidence.
Bill Irvine's aspiration to "judge the dance you see in front of you" is admirable for a solo couple, but hard to see it applied to that jive. With 7 couples on the floor, the most fairminded judge would mark 14 seconds out of 100 from each dance he saw in front of him. For the judge standing at the east end, Joanna jiving at the west end was a dance he saw 120(?) feet away. With binoculars though, he would have made out Tangoqueen in the front row upstairs.
As for selecting for the next round 16 from 25 couples on the floor together, mamma mia.
Bill Irvine's aspiration to "judge the dance you see in front of you" is admirable for a solo couple, but hard to see it applied to that jive. With 7 couples on the floor, the most fairminded judge would mark 14 seconds out of 100 from each dance he saw in front of him. For the judge standing at the east end, Joanna jiving at the west end was a dance he saw 120(?) feet away. With binoculars though, he would have made out Tangoqueen in the front row upstairs.
As for selecting for the next round 16 from 25 couples on the floor together, mamma mia.
There was one particular couple who, judged on the dancing I saw in that Jive, just should not have been in the final at all.
5 of 5
