Unlike all the other missing stories, The Savages for me doesn't require watching the telesnaps to complete the enjoyment of this story. So powerful and emotive is the incidental music in backing up an equally powerful storyline, it's possibly one of the best shows of this sort they ever did in Classic Who during the 60's. For me, this story is so radically different from all other Hartnell stories it's unreal.

This story isn't just about some alien race invading another and torturing it's inhabitants, this is about a race where it's Elders torture it's lesser species by draining them of their life force and using it for their own. For a while they are able to keep this from The Doctor on his arrival but it doesn't take long for Dodo and Steven to find out and when he finally does discover what's happening, The Doctor naturally disapproves before being drained of his life force himself.

It's this part of the story that makes it a good one for me. In taking The Doctor's life force, Jano gets the added bonus of his conscience as well and for the last two episodes there is a battle going on in his head between his own thoughts and The Doctor's. Hartnell has little to do in the best part of these episodes as Jano has all his lines so his presence is still felt.

Both companions have good stories here. As previously stated, it is one of Dodo's best and Steven exits the Series on a high and it is an emotional farewell in keeping with the story. Considering what happened afterwards, maybe Dodo should have stayed as well!

For me, this story marks the unofficial end of the Hartnell Era really. The next three stories I feel are just interim ones setting up the show for a New Doctor with new companions. Overall, though, I just adore this story and if it weren't the fact there were three better ones in the Hartnell Era it would rank as my favourite.

I like your idea about this being the "real" end of the Hartnell era. After this, the show moves in wildly new directions.

It really annoyed me when this story came so low in the All time Best poll in DWM a few years back. Nobody has seen this story since 1966 and, at the time, the soundtrack CD had been deleted. I felt that people were voting blindly, and got most peeved. Nobody remembers this story, but it still did so much worse than stories which are commonly described (rightly or wrongly) as "crap".

It's intelligent, thoughtful and spooky. Dodo gets tons to do (in fact, she should have been asked to stay on as ruler of the planet rather than Steven). The Elders are a very creepy bunch. There's so much atmosphere and sinisterness in this story, and it's a crying shame that it's all but totally forgotten. The Doctor "possessing" Jano is such a clever idea and is very well executed.

I am sure that Christopher Barry's direction was very effective: the few remainign clips and the photos show some interesting sets and a nicely barren quarry location.

Alongside The Massacre, this is another forgotten, lost gem. Far, far better than a lot of "running up and down corridors being chased by monsters" stuff, this is DW with an ethical, moral perspective, and I love it.

I think the fact that it is in itself a missing story doesn't help it's case, but I also agree that because it's a sci-fi story that doesn't contain monsters/aliens or any type of invasion, it does generally get forgotten about. As I've said, it's a very atypical story not just for the Hartnell Era, but for Doctor Who as a whole. I personally would love to see something like it done in the New series.

And you're also right about the atmosphere. The Elders are just a tad too nice and I like the fact that in the first two episodes there is this underlying menace which counterpoints everything they are saying.

Despite all that, it's good to have hidden gems in Doctor Who and I'm glad this is one of them.

I listened to this recently not expecting much but actually it's very good. Easily Dodo's best story - she certainly drives the plot along in the first two episodes, though after that Steven takes over - and there are some nice ideas being explored. I would say though to that some extent it feels more like a Star Trek story than Doctor Who. I can easily imagine Kirk and co fitting into this story in a way that I can't see happening in any other sixties Who.

Yes, it's easy to forget this one but it is a great one for Dodo. And I remember noticing how excellent the musical score was. This should be high on the list of wish-we-had-it stories.

Light guns, Clare Jenkins, bit of casual metempsychosis ... what's not to like?

Maybe the part I highlighted is the reason a lot of people don't care for this one


To be honest, I can't think of much to say about this one. I guess I can understand why people forget about this one or pass it over, because I do too. In truth, I think the Hartnell era (and anyone who follows my posts will know I am a huge 1st Doctor fan) was limping by this point. Post 'The Massacre' I don't think there was really a Hartnell story I would rank above 3 stars; The Gunfighters starts out entertainingly and then loses it's way, 'The Smugglers' entertains well enough without excelling, and 'The Tenth Plaet' Cybermen are brilliant, without the story itself being terribly engaging. The other stories from this period I think are very forgettable.

The constant chopping and changing of companions kind of illustrates how they had no real direction in mind for the show at this point and the dwindling audience figures shows that the public was bored with it. Luckilly, Troughton and the new 'base under siege' formula would come along and rescue it. But these last handful of Hartnell's really were treading water, unfortunately.

The show is certainly making it up as it goes along,a t this stage. Changing Producers and Script Editors means no clear direction. Changing companions, ceasing historicals, etc etc ... it's all a very strange time.

I am interested by Tom Tit's point that maybe people don't care for this story ebcause it's a good one for Dodo. I'd actually say that this is a totally forgotten story. People have no opinion about it as they know so little, other than it's Steven's last. This is why I was peeved that it got low votes in the DWM poll a few years back: I think it should have got no votes!

It's fashionable to slag off Dodo at the moment. All that people have to say about her is that she came out of nowehere, left without saying googdbye, and had an iffy accent. The Saveges gives the lie to that, but The Savages will remain under people's radar because it is probably one of "the most lost" of the lost stories. Apart from a handful of old crumblies like mygoodself who have listened to the CD, it's a forgotten story. It's great for Dodo, but nobody knows it, and nobody wants to say anything positive about Dodo (til fashions change).

Dodo hasn't got much going for her with this story missing, true enough. They also gave her iffy costumes and a stupid name, and she wasn't exactly the looker that some of them were. I do hope against hope that this story will be recovered someday.

Dodo was pretty much the same character as Vicki. That she has become a joke is rather unfortunate ...

I meant that more tongue in cheek than as a serious point, but Dodo is pretty lame as a character really. Sure, she was intended as another Susan, granddaughter replacement, but Maureen O'Brien was a much better actress than Dodo (I can't even remember the actresses name), who, unlike vicki, came across as just what she was: a 20 something woman playing a teenager. Add that dialogue, that accent... let's face it, she wasn't a remotely convincing character. And, as someone else pointed out, she wasn't even a looker, which has helped many other 'Who girls' (as they used to be known) get away with acting deficiencies.

I don't think you can ascribe her lack of popularity to just being a fashionable opinion. Maybe the majority in this case simply recognize a dodgy character.

That said, I have no reason to dislike the actress, and I would gladly say something positive about the character if I could think of anything... but truly, I can't see anything she had going for her.

Chuff, you yourself haven't even managed to come up with any real strengths for this character!


On the wider issue of this story, maybe I need to put this one on my 'relisten' list and really give it a go.

Now this is where I can agree with you, TT!

I always thought MOB was a good actress, but for me her character was worse than Dodo where the opposite applies. There isn't really that much to commend Dodo as you say but I really do think The Savages was the one story where she was used effectively and she was in essence the eyes and ears of The Doctor during the early part of the story and even more so when he is apparently out of action in later episodes. That she was effectively shoved aside in the following story after all that made her departure seem even more odd. Maybe without The Savages it wouldn't have seemed that way.

I think a relisten is a good idea. As I have found out with Series 5 and 6 Episodes in New Who, things can seen better second time round. (Assuming it is your second listen)



P.S, Forgot to respond to another point of yours about the direction the show was going through at this point. I think you're right about all the chopping and changing behind the scenes and onscreen didn't help the show but towards the end of Hartnell's Era, there were signs I feel that Llloyd and Davis were trying to change things but it didn't really kick in until Troughton took over.

Yes, i've only ever been through this story in full once. I did make an abortive attempt at a second listen some time ago but got distracted and never went back to it. I've recently been relistening to early Troughton stories on my daily train commute (wow, I forgot how good 'Power of the Daleks' is. I'm currently thinking maybe the best Doctor Who story ever? Looking forward to that thread) but I might stick 'The Savages' onto my MP3 player too.


And yeah, that's true about the changes. Obviously, the historicals were about to go (actually, I don't think that was a good decision; they just needed better writing than the last few had) and you could say that 'The War Machines' was the first Troughton-esque, new-style story and 'The Tenth planet' was the first 'base under siege' story.

Fair point, TT, I haven't actually evidenced my defence of Dodo!

Because of various backstage changes, the producers were desperate to shuffle her offscreen ASAP, and she only made her first appearance quite randomly at the end of another story, so she seems to be a stopgap. They were trying to change the companion role and make it more modern, but the BBC suits would not let Dodo have a regional accent. No regional accents on the Beeb! RP only! That's why Dodo's accent varies so much. Before long, regional accents were allowed, so the producers went all out and created sexy Ben and Polly (in the vein of Michael Caine/Terence Stamp and Julie Christie, maybe?).

Dodo was the last of a breed: the schoolgirl orphan character. It's unclear to me quite why she was created, given that she was grafted on to the end of a story and written out very quickly. The show was in such a state of flux that she seems like an accident.

I do rather like the character. There's vulnerability and naivete (she's an orphan, her aunt is seen in The Celestial Toymaker, I think???), but she has a real sense of right and wrong. She stands up to Doc Holliday, and she's the real unsung star of The Savages. She's a bit gullible (falls for Cyril's tricks in Toymaker). Her Common Cold is the starting point for The Ark, and her excitement at seeing elephants, etc, and thinking she's in a zoo, are all very winning traits.

She's very sweet, when alone with the Doctor at the beginnig of War Machines, and fulfils the granddaughter role very clearly once again. He seems closer to her than he did to Vicki, but maybe that's because he never travelled alone with Vicki. As a steely, brainwashed baddie in War machines, Jackie Lane gives a good performance: frosty and aloof. Good "hypnotised" acting.

These are the reasons I like Dodo. She does seem a "generic" companion, made from bits of other characters, and I think that might be why she is successful. I'd say the same about mel: she's got so many bits of other characters merged into one, she's almost a parody of a companion, but she is actually an archetypal companion.

The Hartnell watch continues and this another story I wish I could watch

I've listened to this story a couple now and like you’ve said Daveyboy it’s a story of ideas. An elite oppressing another group of people they consider lesser beings. It feels very contemporary in that respect and has some interesting ideas.

There is something evocative of the concentration camps in WW2 when the Doctor chides Jano near the end about ‘baking’ his essence out of him and Nanita’s fear in the first episode in the glass tube makes the process she undergoes feel completely dehumanising.
When Stephen and Dodo are on the tour the way Flower and Avon are reluctant to discuss anything outside the city and Flower’s naiveté suggests to me they are blindly willing participants of the regime. When I was listening to these scenes I was reminded of the Macra Terror and then realised it was the same writer.

It’s not the fasting moving story but it is well enough structured that there is something going on in each episode and the supporting characters. The incidental music however I’m not fond off although I know you and others like it. It does feel oppressive, probably deliberately but it feel dated and used a bit too much.. Frederick Jaeger as Jano is good. There is something rather stately about his voice and I do like when the transference of the Doctor’s conscience causes a struggle between their two personalities.
I find the relationship between Nanita and Exorse the guard who pursues her as a subject for processing quite an interesting (possible love)story. I wondered after his capture by Steven and escape whether he would give up Jano’s plan but he shows he can change.
So Steven’s last story ( sob !). I was sad to see him go and it’s an unusual but probably fitting exit. I rather like Peter Purves’s idea that the Doctor should have revisited (what was the name of the planet?) only to see Steven had become a despot.
Such a shame all the behind the scenes changes meant Peter’s contract wasn’t renewed. Steven was more than just an Ian replacement. He was hot-headed and a little disbelieving at times but I definitely saw some growth in him during The Dalek Masterplan and The Massacre with the losses of Anne, Katarina, Sara and Bret Vyon. He was heroic during this serial, catching Exorse and rescuing the Doctor so hopefully was a good leader. Talking of rescuing the Doctor it actually felt quite disconcerting to see the Doctor unconscious, a foreshadowing that Bill was getting towards the end of his tenure (and the 1st Doctor was getting weaker?)

Question: How did the Elders know about the Doctor ? I’ve read suggestions that this may be an outpost planet associated with Gallifrey


I’ve been liking Dodo over the last couple of serials and she had a good substantive role here discovering what happens to the savages. I wouldn’t agree she is naïve in this story much more a rebel. I did think though she was written a little sharply here with her relationship with Steven. She seems to almost mock Steven’s worry about the Doctor’s disappearance when he is exploring alone and that Steven should have gone with him ‘You don't have to do everything he tells you. You're a grown man. Or are you?’ which seems quite harsh. She also screams quite a lot in this story which seemly unlikely for her character.

I have seen the War Machines before but it will be interesting to see Dodo in her last story now that I’ve seen all her journey so far.

Great reading your comments as ever LOT!

It's a shame you don't like the music, for me it's really heart rendering at times and really reflects the plight of the Savages and all they go through in this story. It's one of many things I love about the story and I don't think it would be quite the same without it.

As for other point about how The Elders know about The Doctor, I would say that's in keeping with their hi-tech civilisation, I accept it because of that really, you feel they really have the know how to track him and know when he will arrive.

Nice to see another defence of Dodo! I watched The Ark recently, and she's just great in that. She's funny and perky and very likeable. She should have been the one left leading the planet in The Savages, not Steven, cos she gets more to do.

I love Dodo.

Thanks Daveyboy. Glad to know you are reading my comments☺
It has been so much fun reading your original threads as I'm watching & the appreciation or not for the classic episodes!

I wish there was a like button for your chuffnobbler ☺