It's definitely make or break time for Derek - if they don't make the character work then he needs to leave before christmas, IMO. It just feels too awkward, going from the man who (laughably) floored Tyler Moon to helping him cook a meal 2 months later. This in no way reflects on Jamie Foreman, but they need to just make Derek less of an awkward to watch character.

How can he possibly have been 'rehabilitated' when he's just told Tanya she's 'a dead woman'??

Too true, and the spoilers say that

i like him and i think his love for his family is realistic

for example phil is supposed to be a 'baddie' but doesnt really care for his extended family, like billy, ronnie, roxy

derek looks after all his family, weather its his nieces, or step mum dot, it makes it more realistic, most supposed gangsters are meant to be protective topwards there faaaaaaamily

Jamie Foreman has done a good job and the amount of threads and discussion about the character on DS is testament to that . Love him or hate him Derek is an interesting character and I quite like him.

Just out of interest, if you met someone like him in real life and they told your wife she was 'a dead woman' as he pushed her up against a wall in an alley, would you still quite like him?

Not to put words in kendathu's mouth, but you can like the character, without liking the 'person'. I think Derek is vile and nasty and I wouldn't want to live in the same street as him, but I think he's an interesting character, I enjoy his interactions with other characters, he's well played and I enjoy watching him.

Yes, I know what you mean in terms of him being a 'love to hate' character. Hopefully nobody of any age admires him in any way, but I agree you need 'baddies' in any soap to give texture to the mix.

Ha ha! Yeah I think if anyone on the forum ever says they want to be like Derek, I'd back slowly away.

I think I find him interesting because he isn't a one dimensional 'gangster' character. In fact he's not a ganster at all, he's a two bit criminal. He's a little man who believes he's 'It', believes he has power and craves it.

Ultimately the only people he ever had any semblence of control over is his family. He's obsessional over them, look how he's got some sort of crony keeping track of Carol and the kids. He's deeply insecure without this power over them, so when they disobey him, or someone threatens his control he lashes out. Not because he is powerful, but because he's not.

I will never forgive the way he was made the center of attention during Pat's death scenes.

His "love" for his family is actually control, manipulation and possessiveness. It's not love.

He picks on the younger cast, the women, or those who are obviously less built than him (or "weaker" for want of a better word). He hasn't really squared up to anyone who could take him, and I find it ridiculous when the writers make those who can hold their own act in fear of this stupid little man.

He's not a gangster. He's one man with a massive ego living with a teenager and sleeping in Pat's bed.

His presence in the show makes good characters do bad things. Cora stitching up her own daughter, for a start.

He has a daughter randomly thrown at him and he gets all GRR RIGHTEOUS ANGER on Tanya for daring to tell the kid that he's a bad man. Then he goes and acts the bad man by threatening Tanya's life. Hypocrite. Fabulous moral code this man's supposed to have...

His way of making himself the "Top Dog" of Walford is by screwing over the good, gentle folk like Alfie and Patrick. Yeah, real hard man he is...

...just some of the reasons why I hate this character more than any other in the show.

Uh oh, I foresee another dead woman if Derek sees this

Totally sums him up though, love it.

It's ok, I've got a plan. I'll just pull his hat down over his eyes and run off.

No, I still can't stand him. He's a nasty, self-righteous bully with a lump of coal where his heart should be. I can't take any of his 'nice' scenes seriously and it gives me the creeps when he's alone with women or children... we've all seen what he's really like and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. I don't even love to hate him. I just hate him.

I don't like him. He feels like a character that we've all seen before. Nothing original or unique. And I'm already dreading the storyline with Alice, as she isn't much better. His son Joey might have more to offer

Well done Jamie, then.

They won't change my perception of him; the character is poorly written and poorly acted.

Giving him "cute" scenes with kids and kittens, and swapping recipes with Tyler is not redemption - it's manipulation. You can't have a character like Derek who swans into the show, takes over, steals, threatens, blackmails, beats people up, and orders someone's death, and then have him play with kids and kittens, like that makes up for all the nasty, vile behaviour?!

What a joke.

The writing for him has been terrible, and while he does want what's best for his family, I don't see why they all put up with his behaviour. Where is the challenge? Why should we care about Derek? Max can clearly see that Tanya doesn't like him, but he puts his brother first over his wife's concerns; Cora happily sells out her daughter for him, and why? It doesn't make sense for Cora to care about Derek's suffering, which he is responsible for anyway. And Carol, the woman that couldn't stand him, suddenly starts sharing ice cream with him and letting him ingratiate himself into her life, even after he slapped her! Derek put a hit out on Roxy, and a week later she's bantering with him like he stole her purse, and the same for Tyler, too.

It would have better if Derek had been on the outs with his entire family, and would've had to earn there respect, instead of immediately excepted. Of course this is what they're trying to do with his kids, but at this point I don't care about Derek or whether Alice forgives him or whatever. They have yet to show me why I should care about this horrible character, and the more they have him fleecing vulnerable people, like Lucy, the less likely I am to care. This is not redemption.

Well said.

It doesn't help that he has absolutely zero charisma. You can make a character as evil and psychotic as you like as long as they're charismatic and/or charming -- take Moriarty from Sherlock (BBC) for example. Can't help but like him just a liiiitle bit.

The wrong actor plays Derek -- he's completely miscast. We could have accepted the evil act had he been played by someone with a bit of charisma. He doesn't even look as if he's related to any of his family, for a start.

He was going to have Roxy killed just because she wanted her daughter back. He was willing to have his niece grow up without a mother out of some misguided obsession with controlling his family. HE knows what's best for Jack -- and that means killing the mother of his child and the sister of his wife. UGH. Apparently she and everyone else has a short memory, because now it's like it never happened...

I don't feel that it's supposed to make up for his vile behavious though, it's supposed to enhance it. For me there is something creepier about someone who can play nice, but then turns nasty when the facade drops. Like in the episode the other day. One moment he was playing the doting father with Alice, serving her up HobNobs etc, then the next minute he'd shoved Tanya against a wall and threatened to kill her. We're not supposed to forget he has this nasty side.

For me I much prefer that sort of character as a 'baddie' than someone who is just seen as nasty all the time, by everyone and towards everyone.



They put up with his behaviour because he's their family, and sometimes that's what families do. I'm certainly not encouraging it, but it's not a rare occurance, in my experience anyway. It's hard to get out of a cycle you've known your whole life, and I feel the way Derek treats his siblings is how he's treated them his whole life. He craves their attention and respect. I don't doubt he loves them, but ultimately it's controlling them which is what he really wants. He'll do anything he feels is necessary to achieve this. Sometimes that will be showering them with gifts and nice words, often it'll be through manipulation .He knows all their achillies heels and their weaknesses as well as their strengths and their dreams and won't think twice about using these against them. If none of this works he'll play dirty and blackmail and threaten them, sometimes violently, until he gets them back in line. Then he'll play contrite and start showering them with gifts and nice words again. It's a vicious circle.

I like Derek, ok he's a horrible person but an interesting character. If everyone was a goody two shoes the show would be boring. You need the characters to have more than one dimension. This is why he is nice to Alice and Dot then awful to other people eg Tanya

Yep. Almost as low as Michael ripping Jean off....

Nah still sh**
Last edited by The_abbott : 01-06-2012 at 12:46

IMO, it hasn't been built into his character well enough for it to work. You can't just shove in some "cute" scenes several months later to enhance the character; it has to be natural and organic, not forced. I like villains, just like other characters, to be well rounded with redeeming qualities, but Derek's are forced and unnatural. After putting a hit out on Roxy, beating up Tyler and Michael, scheming against Phil, the man should be despised by the majority of the show, not given a free pass like they all have amnesia.


I know that, but it seems unrealistic that they would all get on the way they do. None of them had seen Derek for years, and don't really know the kind of person he is, so really, Derek should not have been welcomed with open arms by Jack or eventually Carol; even Max should be more wary than what he is. I just feel it would have been better if there had been more conflict and animosity between them, instead of the insta-family that we got.

I don't believe for a second that Jack would condone Derek's behaviour (no matter how dodgy a cop he once was), or tag along with him the way he has; I don't believe Carol would've dropped her anger towards him so easily the way she did, and I especially don't believe that she would've allowed Derek to get away with slapping her (she would've told Max or Jack). I think it would've been better if Derek had to fight to win there trust and respect, not simply waltz in like nothing has ever happened.

There are just no excuses for threatening your brother's wife, or trying to kill the mother of your other brother's child. And how come no-one knows about the Roxy stuff? Why doesn't Jack care enough to be properly bothered? And why hasn't Tanya told Max about Derek's threats? All of this and so much more is why Derek hasn't, and will not work, as everyone around him have lost their brains in order to prop Deranged Derek.

I wasn't that keen on him at the start but yeah he's alright now in my book.

I don't feel like they've just suddenly started to shove 'cute' scenes in though. When Derek appeared last year we saw him charm over Dot very quickly, for example.

For me though, like I said, the scenes where Derek is appearing nice and friendly aren't proof of any redeeming characteristics. For me they are just proof that he knows that sometimes you can catch more flies with honey.




We never saw Max's reaction when he first met up with Derek, as that happened off screen when Max was away. There is a bit of an age gap between Jack and Derek, so he probably didn't get as over bearing treatment from him as his other siblings did. Also, again this is just my own personal opinion, Jack is the one who is the most similar to Derek, in the sense I think they both have dark parts to their personality. Carol didn't welcome him with open arms, because of what happened the last time they saw each other, however he eventually managed to manipulate her around and was seeping with fake contriteness. I doubt this was the first time that Derek made a similar speech to her, and wasn't the last. Like I said, viscious circle.



I think this is where Derek's manipulation skills come in. Like I've said, I've known of families where there is a father or a brother who is a right b*****d some of the time, because of whatever issues they have and take it out on their family as a way to facilitate their power. It is inexcusable behaviour, but that doesn't mean it is unrealistic.