Give my love to Brierley Hill and the Merry Hell Centre, I'm off to bed to dream of young Bridget

But she's all we've got left!

It really is not a vintage year this year, more a table wine !!!!

Oh we did have some good ones. Bilyana, Laura, Katie, Gabrielle - they were all nice. And Jade looks perfectly presentable too.

No Sara Dhadas or Susan Mas this year though, sadly.

They aren't advocating the rights of men, I didn't say that. I said they aren't necessarily attacking them just because the are campaigning for equal rights and opportunities, the feminist movement isn't an anti men campaign. I don't agree that most feminists argue that women should be Superior to men.

Wiv Jade shouldn't it be "is she deff, fick or innit" ?

I love Karren, she did a great job at Birmingham City but she has backed the wrong horse, well in this case donkey, in Jade.

The word flashwilson used was "inappropriate", not "sexist". Some people felt it was inappropriate because they felt "thick or deaf" was implying deaf people were thick. (Compare how "dumb" can mean both unable to speak, and having nothing to say.) I don't agree with them: I don't think Adam's phrase denigrates deaf people.

That said, to suppose that when someone doesn't follow one's advice it's either because they didn't hear you, or are stupid, is disrespectful. It's not allowing that they might have heard you, but disagree for their own reasons which might be valid. Whether he would have said the same to a man I don't know; we do know he said it to a woman and so it forms part of his pattern of being disrespectful to women.


I wouldn't say she was articulate, but she did make some good points. For example, when the men tried to say she'd always been useless, she asked them why they had listened to, and accepted, so many of her suggestions. That pretty much demolished them.

I don't think Karren is remotely a feminist. For one thing, and I don't mean this unkindly, she is far too selfish. Karren is about promoting Karren, about earning money for Karren and I have no problems with that. She is far too single-minded to start launching crusades. All she did was call it like she saw it. A contestant who made cave-men look reconstructed was patronising to another contestant who was female. Karren spoke up and more power to her.

I didn't see Adam as a cave man but then again I have no problem with men talking to me in a blunt fashion so long as they can take it back. Look, it's long been clear that men rule the universe and they are always right, so what's the point in arguing with them - letting them think they are right is a totally different thing. The day that sexism goes out of the window is a very long way off, but it doesn't bother me because I handle things my way and don't need to jump on a soap box and bore everyone shiteless. Jade isn't smart, well not imo, she's just gobby and manages to wrangle her way to the top of the pile every now and then. Let's see her, when she inevitably is head to head with her fellow contestant in the final two.

Adam had an issue with Jade.

Karren saw a man having an issue with a woman.

Therein lies the difference.

Adam has said lots of times about various other people they didnt know what they were doing ........ yet Karren stony quiet ........ funny that isnt it? Oh but silly me ........ Adam was slagging off another guy at the time ........ so that doesnt count.

Karren was gunning for Adam and couldn't do enough to praise Jade. Whether that's because Jade's a female, I don't know but I thought it was very biased.

This is an irrelevent point to the topic but you don't have to be female to be a femminist. I've met some guys who support woman's rights for equality and would happily call themselves femminists.

Karen hasnt always backed the females in this process, she was incredbly embarassed by them one year in the boardoom when the girls lost to the guys (in the year when there was a larger number of good looking female candidates than most years).

Adam had form with other women, not just Jade. Remember his patronising remarks to Katie when she became PM in the chutney task?

You do not have to be a feminist to support womens rights and equal rights/equal pay.

I think Karren does want to be an advocate for women in business simply as they are still chronically under represented.

I don't think you quite understand what humanism means.

Disagree with everything about this post. Maybe its just me but no one including Karen was suggesting Jade's idea's were outstanding, simply that they were the only one's on offer. The guys may have stated they didn't like Sweet Thing, but since they couldn't come up with anything better who were they to point fingers at Jade? That's how I took Karen bringing up the guys brainstorming anyway. It was obvious Plan A for both Nick and Adam was to blame Jade's ideas, so it was refreshing to have Karen stamp it out completely before they had a chance to get started.

I'm no fan of Jades but there's something about two candidates ganging up on one candidate that I really detest. No matter what the gender. Jade didn't really put a foot wrong, she did what she was asked, gave idea's and performed her parts well including her section of the presentation.

Adam on the other hand; focused too much on adding Jellies to their brand after hearing their popularity, fell apart during the presentation and confused his brand. While his partner on the "important" team stood there and watched him do it. Nick was pathetic, swaying back and forth between wanting Adam or Jade fired. He knew from the start that adding jellies would confuse the brand, and tried to hang Adam with it in the boardroom. In fact he only settling on trying to oust Jade once he realised he was seen as partly to blame with the jellies for not stepping in. That being said the right person was fired. Besides would we have even seen Adam as PM this week if LS didn't push him? My guess, no. Adam imo does come across as sexist at times, or at the very least rude and dismissive when talking to women. Which is ironic since twice this series whilst Jade has directed video's in tasks, Adams resorted to playing her assistant to look busy on both tasks. Oh sorry, "choreographer" as he put it.

There's hardly enough opinion in there to even disagree with anything. Apart from the last bit. Maybe you thought it was the second most pathetic thing you had seen on this show.

Let's provide some facts so we can cut out the disagreement, lol.
Nick (at 39:29 minutes) - In absolute credit to Jade, she came up with the name, she came up with quite a few product ideas. I think...we...the ideas we had were as good as hers.
Karren (at 39:39 minutes) - No. Your ideas weren't as good as Jades. You had ChocoHolster, Chocolate Heaven, ChocoChoc.

So, you're wrong in stating that Karren did not think Jade's ideas were great. And you're wrong in stating that Karren thought Jade's were the only ones on offer. Karren aknowledged the boys brainstormed a range of names, and she thought Jade's suggestion was at the very least 'good'.

Now, considering a major fault in their performance was the fact their branding was diluted and they had no core product range, Jade's suggestion arguably seems worse than the names the boys came up with. The names the guys suggested clearly related to chocolate. So I'd contest your assertion that the guys could not come up with anything better than Jade's suggestion. I acknowledge that this is personal opinion, although I'm assuming any reasonable person can see the dilution in Jade's brand.

Your statement that they pointed the fingers at Jade is obviously completely wrong, as evidenced by Nicks statement at 39:29, before Karren even said anything. Therefore your statement that it was refereshing for Karren to stamp anything out is also false. Karren butted in after Nick had given credit to Jade.

Nick (at 47:53 minutes, speaking about Adam) - it was a total lack of direction. We weren't all on the same page. I think ultimately it is your fault.
Therefore your statement that Jade was ganged up on is also false. Both Nick and Jade said that Adam was responsible for the failure of this task.

Your statements re: Adam. Correct. Shouldn't have added jellies, and poor presentation. But the topic is about Karrens comments - Adams lacklustre performance this week is not disputed by anyone, anywhere.

You state that Nick was pathetic swaying back and forth. False. Refer to 47:53 above. Also repeated at 53:03 minutes where Nick stated that Adam had been the weakest at this task, but when the overall process was considered, Jade. Nick did not flinch from these conclusions at all.

I think it is more likely that Adam has 9 or 10, 2 bedroom terraced houses which for which the rental in the Glossop area would be no more than £500 per month.
I would think his mortgages and any other expenses would mean there is very little profit to be gained and none of his houses will have gained any capital in the last 3 - 4 years in Glossop. Much more likely that they are in negative equity.
His shop also looked a bit grim and probably won't compete with the local Tesco (also, he has presumably used it as equity). He had staff to pay and this isn't a great time to be in retail so all in all I would be amazed if he could earn enough to live off the income from any of these businesses.
Not impressed by his boasts and I am very glad he has gone

WOW. Ill be honest as soon as I noticed the break down of times, I didn't see the point of reading your reply. Looks like you don't like being disagreed with, so I leave it there!

Aww poor women need protection! Have you ever thought about the fact that a lot of women CHOOSE to stay at home, look after their kids, or maybe just don't want to have a stressful career in order to get to those highly paid senior positions? Don't tell me you advocate quotas please...

This thread's a brilliant read and the epitome of unreconstructed male. For male read female too as gender is clearly not a divide here. A legitimate put down by a professional involved in the show to a contestant who has spent almost the entire time denigrating and patronsing women leads to her too being denigrated and then the contestant who was recently patronised being subject to derisory comments about her looks

Never mind debating if Karen is a feminist or Adam chauvinistic I think a more legitimate topic would be exactly how misogynistic this forum is?

By the way feminism can benefit all. People really shouldn't be so scared of it.

Or normal people

Adam was a talented salesman but had a boorish side. I liked him a lot at the start, but the interview with Dara made me cringe. You do not need to be a feminist to see some comments as being wrong. Put yourself in someone elses shoes, it looks different.

If you are in sales, rule number is more people buy from you the more that like you. If people think you are a fool, less sales follow, after all, most products are not sold by a single person. Alienating anyone is not very bright if you want to work with them or sell with them. Jade might not be useful to Adam now but in five years she might have a life changing order pending - will she call Adam ? Don't think so.

Karen got to the top of football, so must be a tough cookie and would have been kicked out in a moment if she could not cut it. Seems ironic some of the criticisms aimed at her. Football and Sullivan, not really bra burning worlds are they ??

Women in business often receive unfair criticism but this is wider than this. This is a heavily edited TV show, where a look might come from this comment, one twenty minutes earlier or four weeks ago.

Yes, like not all women that support woman's rights don't want to touch the label of feminist with a barge pole, I know! That was the point, all variations apply, femiminist women, feminist men, and non feminists that supports women's rights. The op seems to think karen is a feminist just because she's a women's and brings up support for the female candidates sometimes, even though it seems forgotten that she can tell them off too and praise the guys sometimes. That's why I said a man can be a femminst too because a femminist isn't just automatically a woman (as is still believed by some, and maybe intentionally sometimes by the likes of plebs like Adam who would rather it still the case; and conveniently forgot that there are good female chefs and fashion ppl as did on YF). It wouldn't suprise me if Adam had complete sympathy for a man that didn't have equal pay or rights for something but yet still thought some women's lack of rights and, or, pay was not an issue (and yes, I know their are female equivilents like Adam in reverse feeling towards men, before you try and pull me up on that).

Some people still automatically think women's rights = wanted soley by women = femminist rights, and I was just saying that men can wear that hat just as much as woman do and proudly (as some I know) and that it's not just the scary bra burning woman (of whatever era) that came/come under this description that some men (and some other women) still run scared of. But yes, all variations apply. If you support the equalty of women you can be male or female and come under feminism or not. But some people just presume that becos Karen is female that she's a raving feminist (and the type of feminst that people hate). But sometimes when she sometimes supports women or an individual woman in the process I think that she's reembling the mind of a decent minded person, not a feminist!

The thing I'm not keen on about Karen is that she doesn't defend women but more attacks men.

I don't like this either, becasue you can defend while leaving the other party out of the equation. Myself and my fellow Apprentice house watches think it's because she was not taken seriously by men when she started her career at the football job so may hold some amounts of bitterness against future men she meets that resemble these types. No excuse for her, but that's the logic we thought of which would be sort of ironic if the men she felt un-respected by were also the same that she relied on in her career (if that is what is believed to be true, though I'm not sure if that is truth or just a perception by others).