[borodave]

Originally Posted by Brockyman

Look at the lineup for this years Rebellion festival to see who's still around. It's like an A to Z of punk royalty.

've been to quite a few of these festivals and find it pretty sad actually. A lot of old, bald men trying to relive their youths..

[Brockyman]

Originally Posted by borodave

A lot of old, bald men trying to relive their youths..

Nothing wrong with that My youth was much better than what we have now, lol.

There's quite a lot of new stuff as well though. Lots of young bands but they do tend to be overlooked, sadly.
This years line up is the best for a long time. Buzzcocks, P.I.L. and Rancid all headlining.

[marcusgv]

Originally Posted by borodave

've been to quite a few of these festivals and find it pretty sad actually. A lot of old, bald men trying to relive their youths..

Eno, The Edge, Neil Young are getting old and bald...doesn't stop them being cutting edge!

And PiL and The Cure are doing new music ( about time Siouxsie did as well)!

[ShaunIOW]

Interesting show and brought back a lot of memories although I was only 9 in 1976 and never really started getting interested in music till 78/79 and then it was mainly hard rock/metal like Judas Priest, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, AC/DC, Scorpions (most of whom are still going today), but I did like The Clash and Dr Feelgood as well and still listen and prefer a lot of the music from back then to the modern stuff now I'm in my mid-40's.

[N3dSt4rk]

Originally Posted by ShaunIOW

Interesting show and brought back a lot of memories although I was only 9 in 1976 and never really started getting interested in music till 78/79 and then it was mainly hard rock/metal like Judas Priest, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, AC/DC, Scorpions (most of whom are still going today), but I did like The Clash and Dr Feelgood as well and still listen and prefer a lot of the music from back then to the modern stuff now I'm in my mid-40's.

Yeh like you I'm a big Zeppelin, Sabbath and AC/DC fan and still think Dr Feelgood rocked. Wilko is a good guitarist and seeing him in Dr Feelgood made me laugh but I was mesmorised at the same time. Good guitarist with a brilliant stage presence

[mushymanrob]

As expected, fantastic!

Thought it was great to hear testimonies from the guys who saw the sex pistols and the impact they had. i think the pistols are underrated nowdays by some, 'macclarens manufactured boyband' type of comment. this programme completely refuted that nonsense and highlighted lydons importance.

was a little surprised that they focused more on the london pub scene as the birth of punk more then the american ramones, new york dolls, iggy, etc.

[fatnek]

you're going to hate this.. but yes its the sex pistols remix: http://soundcloud.com/flapsandwich/sexpistols

no future

[scrilla]

Originally Posted by borodave

've been to quite a few of these festivals and find it pretty sad actually. A lot of old, bald men trying to relive their youths..

People have no control over their age.

People have no control over their hair loss.

People don't have to give up on things when they reach a certain age so as not to offend the sensibilities of younger people who consider themselves hip. If they did give up they'd be accused of being out of touch.

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by scrilla

People have no control over their age.

People have no control over their hair loss.

People don't have to give up on things when they reach a certain age so as not to offend the sensibilities of younger people who consider themselves hip. If they did give up they'd be accused of being out of touch.

*like*

[mgvsmith]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

As expected, fantastic!

was a little surprised that they focused more on the london pub scene as the birth of punk more then the american ramones, new york dolls, iggy, etc.

I liked the recognition given to the London pub scene because living in NI I didn't know that much about it. I love Dr Feelgood, I have played 'Stupidity' to death and I was lucky to see the John Mayo incarnation. I also saw The Kursaals and The Hot Rods when I lived in England in the 70s.

I know the programme was Punk Britannia but the influence of the US is vital. I think that that is an area of pop history that needs exploration. I was at an Undertones gig recently where they played the whole Undertones album and I realised that it was so influenced by The Ramones. The whole thing probably starts with The Velvet Underground....the most influential band of all?

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by mgvsmith

I liked the recognition given to the London pub scene because living in NI I didn't know that much about it. I love Dr Feelgood, I have played 'Stupidity' to death and I was lucky to see the John Mayo incarnation. I also saw The Kursaals and The Hot Rods when I lived in England in the 70s.

I know the programme was Punk Britannia but the influence of the US is vital. I think that that is an area of pop history that needs exploration. I was at an Undertones gig recently where they played the whole Undertones album and I realised that it was so influenced by The Ramones. The whole thing probably starts with The Velvet Underground....the most influential band of all?

TBH id sooner them give more time to the americans influence, i was too young and uninterested to know much about the velvets. watching this programme youd think that punk was borne solely out of the pub rock scene, on the other hand many have often criticised punk for ripping off the ramones , new york dolls, etc. and gave no credit to the pub rock scene.

but my point about the american bands is that they simply didnt resonate with me... the pistols did.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

TBH id sooner them give more time to the americans influence, i was too young and uninterested to know much about the velvets. watching this programme youd think that punk was borne solely out of the pub rock scene, on the other hand many have often criticised punk for ripping off the ramones , new york dolls, etc. and gave no credit to the pub rock scene.

but my point about the american bands is that they simply didnt resonate with me... the pistols did.

Yes, we've had this discussion before with people who I think have gone the other way and overstated the importance of the US proto-punk bands.

I was a bit surprised that although they rightly acknowledged the pub rock scene as influential (and bands like the Stranglers and Ian Dury etc. were always pub rock and not punk) there was little mention on the US influence beyond the Dolls - where were the Velvets, the Stooges, the MC5, the Ramones?

Perhaps we'll get more in subsequent programmes. The American bands did have an influence for sure - musically at least. The British punk scene was unique in that it was angry and political and inextricably linked to life in the 70s (largely in London, but also in Manchester, Glasgow and even Northern Ireland) and, like Lydon said, that feeling that young people had no future, no prospects.

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

Y

I was a bit surprised that although they rightly acknowledged the pub rock scene as influential (and bands like the Stranglers and Ian Dury etc. were always pub rock and not punk) there was little mention on the US influence beyond the Dolls - where were the Velvets, the Stooges, the MC5, the Ramones?

.

Maybe their true influence was much less then we are lead to believe, true they might have captured the sound, but did they? there are a shed load of 60's tracks that arent that dissimilar.

[M@nterik]

Hmmm, interesting but this effort to sugar coat punk does rather ignore some unpleasant skeletons in its cupboard.

Early Punk was very much into Nazi iconography, not sure it bought into the doctrine, the Damned, for example, started off as London SS.

Shame this rather unpleasant aspect was not even touched on.

[starry_eyed]

Originally Posted by M@nterik

Hmmm, interesting but this effort to sugar coat punk does rather ignore some unpleasant skeletons in its cupboard.

Early Punk was very much into Nazi iconography, not sure it bought into the doctrine, the Damned, for example, started off as London SS.

Shame this rather unpleasant aspect was not even touched on.

The reason for this was to shock people, not because they (punks in general) necessarily bought into the ideology. Anything they could do to shock was good - and Nazi symbols were a sure way to shock.

[unique]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

TBH id sooner them give more time to the americans influence, i was too young and uninterested to know much about the velvets. watching this programme youd think that punk was borne solely out of the pub rock scene, on the other hand many have often criticised punk for ripping off the ramones , new york dolls, etc. and gave no credit to the pub rock scene.

but my point about the american bands is that they simply didnt resonate with me... the pistols did.

the season is called punk BRITANNIA

[mgvsmith]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

Perhaps we'll get more in subsequent programmes. The American bands did have an influence for sure - musically at least. The British punk scene was unique in that it was angry and political and inextricably linked to life in the 70s (largely in London, but also in Manchester, Glasgow and even Northern Ireland) and, like Lydon said, that feeling that young people had no future, no prospects.

I think the influence of the US punk bands was strong in Ireland, North and South....a story in itself?

And in a bizarre twist of fate, young people right now have no future, little prospects...will that be reflected in UK music? There is little sign of it!

[mushymanrob]

Originally Posted by unique

the season is called punk BRITANNIA

true, but the first show was about punks roots, so how much of the americans influence on it is pertainant, unless it wasnt actually as great as some (usually punk detractors) would want us to believe.

ps wtf is siouxsie wearing on that ad? she looks like a frikkin pearly queen!

[mimicole]

I still haven't watched this though I intend to at some point!

[xlittlexminx]

Originally Posted by mimicole

I still haven't watched this though I intend to at some point!

cool story sis.

[Adamsk]

Originally Posted by homer2012

How old are you??? You were a teenager for the beatles first stuff and still young for 1977.

Punk needs a comback

The thing is Punk never went away it just got stoling by big record company to boost a image that,did not represent punk in anyway or form.you know Green day emo bands like paramore fall out boy as John lydon claim it not punk it's plonk they did not have the right to call them self punk it was a joke.Avirl laveen and Sum 41 talking about boy girl problem and how they have no money top spend and who doing it with who.But some part of the 80's cut of punk with hair rock bands like Bon jovi and white snake.the o ly thing that came close to Punk was the underground in American in the 80's and Grunge when it was young a dangerous before the days of Creed and Nickleback.plus kids have change a lot since band like daisy chainsaw got in the charts,punk is a about having freedom too express anger and rage and fight politics and stand for something.That was punk main focus when bands like the pistol and clash was about it was-make fun of the record industry.And shake up the chart and fight the mainstream that took over like you see now with the Cowell days and people that are sick of x factor and voice acts.But sadly I don,t see another time like that again when it most needed.

[unique]

Originally Posted by mushymanrob

true, but the first show was about punks roots, so how much of the americans influence on it is pertainant, unless it wasnt actually as great as some (usually punk detractors) would want us to believe.

ps wtf is siouxsie wearing on that ad? she looks like a frikkin pearly queen!

who knows? the people that were there?

i'm not so sure that the reality was that the american garage bands really had that great an influence, and perhaps the pubrock type bands being shown were maybe more of an influence. perhaps in some way not an influence in the normal way in that punks wanted to copy them, but influenced in that punks wanted to do something different and/or alternative to that

in the early days punks used to dance to reggae as there weren't any punk records to play. don letts who was in the documentary was on of the dj's from that time, and he hung out with the clash and shot a documentary with them, and later became part of big audio dynamite when mick jones (also in the doc) left the clash

a couple of years ago i was chatting to the father of a friend of mine, who is a dread living near earls court, and he knew don well, also adam ant (who drew the record cover for one of his singles), and a whole bunch of influential names, both well known and not so well known. he was clearly enthused that i knew who these people were and who they played with etc, whilst his daughter didn't. but then any normal person without an encylopedic musical mind wouldn't know, but they'd know the bands they played, like fleetwood mac and pink floyd. anyways he was chatting to me about that time, as he was releasing music back then, and he painted quite a different picture to what most would expect

i was also fortunate to meet on seperate occaisons glen matlock from the sex pistols and malcolm mclaren. people at the forefront of punk, they were very well spoken and polite, and malcolms handshake in particular was one of the weakest limp wristed shakes, and it was a proper full hand shake. but then i later found out after he died that he had a bout of cancer about a year before, so that might have had something to do with it, but he spoke about his life and the sex shop and the pistols for about an hour and a half and if it wasn't for his constant references to shagging anything he could, and he had plenty of chances to, i would have sworn he gay. from his clothing to mannerisms. he was an extremely interesting guy though. i admired his work for years, the fact that for someone with little true musical talent he could put together something with other peoples talent and make a success. he had his fingers in a variety of things and moved with the times. you could easily spend all day for a week listening to him

i suppose if you look at john lydon now, with his golf jumpers and butter adverts you might get an idea what mclaren and matlock were like, but they were far more polite. you would have thought glen would have been bitter for being replaced by syd, but not at all. at least it didn't come across when i met him, so perhaps he was way over it

the whole night from 9pm was great stuff on bbc4 with the stiff records stuff too. they really show some great clips. madness on cheggars plays pop for example. you don't see that every day

[M@nterik]

Originally Posted by starry_eyed

The reason for this was to shock people, not because they (punks in general) necessarily bought into the ideology. Anything they could do to shock was good - and Nazi symbols were a sure way to shock.

Yeah, I never thought they actually bought into the doctrine but I do think it a pity that, so far, this rather unpleasant aspect has been glossed over.

So far, with the Story of 76 docu and the first in this series it has been very much a case of punk being the great thing the youth of the day were waiting for. None of its flaws have been explored and during punks heyday Disco was just as popular.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by unique

who knows? the people that were there?

i'm not so sure that the reality was that the american garage bands really had that great an influence, and perhaps the pubrock type bands being shown were maybe more of an influence. perhaps in some way not an influence in the normal way in that punks wanted to copy them, but influenced in that punks wanted to do something different and/or alternative to that

in the early days punks used to dance to reggae as there weren't any punk records to play. don letts who was in the documentary was on of the dj's from that time, and he hung out with the clash and shot a documentary with them, and later became part of big audio dynamite when mick jones (also in the doc) left the clash

A really interesting post - thanks.

I was only there at the time as a young lad so a lot of what happened passed me by until I caught up a few years later at the tail end of the post-punk new wave. By that time the US alternative scene was dominated by the CBGB crowd of Blondie, Talking Heads, Television etc. and that more accomplished and melodic sound was certainly echoed over here with acts who could sustain the momentum of punk by making sounds which were more commercial (I'm sure we'll see this as the documentaries continue).

I think that the early US influences came largely from McLaren's fascination with the New York Dolls and his desire to manage a similar band back in England and from the high speed, short song approach of The Ramones. Whether garage bands like the Stooges or the MC5 had much influence is more debatable. I don't know how widely they were known at the time in Britain.

The West London punk scene of the Pistols and The Clash was definitely influenced by music from the West Indies, though, and I think this was overlooked on the documentary. It's very obvious on Clash records and that carried on into the ska / Two Tone scene later on. Lydon has often said that he identified with "outsider" groups like London's black community because he was of Irish Catholic origin and from a poor working class background and, while not necessarily evident on Pistols records, that West Indian influence is clearly visible on PiL records.

Various members of the London punk scene were regular patrons of specialist record shops which stocked a lot of imports for the Caribbean community, particularly in areas like Notting Hill. Whether they also stocked records by American proto-punk bands I don't know. Maybe it was from places like these that the British punks got some of their influences. You certainly couldn't see anything like it on TV (apart from a blink-and-you'll-miss-it set by the New York Dolls on Whistle Test).

A lot has been said of the Ramones' UK tour in 1976 and the fact that members of the Pistols and the Clash and the Damned were at the Roundhouse gig, so obviously the British bands knew of the Ramones at the time and, already in their own bands, went to see them and most of them have since acknowledged that the gig was the spark that ignited British punk.

The influence was specifically about the style of playing, though - fast and energetic and frantic (listen to early Ramones and then listen to White Riot). The crucial difference is in the content and the attitude. The Ramones were never an angry or political band. Songs like Sheena is a Punk Rocker sound like nothing more than a very speeded-up Beach Boys song. You can't say that about God Save the Queen.

[Adamsk]

Bands like The Strokes and The Hives tried to bring somewhat the Punk effect back but sadly follow the root of Green day again.Where I give a band like The Ravonettes more for gold for doing some that sound nothing like punk.But had the punk energy in there song and lyric style that would not limited itself to the same thing that happened too The Strokes.I also give nod to bands like Joy Division and The Smiths and Echo and the bunnymen or The Jeuse and Mary Chain for some what filling in the gap that early punk left off.The libertines tried like The Strokes to become this new sort of punk band but failed again and became limited too the same sound and would have more in commen with lad rock,Blur and Oasis in the 21 century,that was very unpunk like.