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Is Radio to blame for the death of uk charts!
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3 $pirit
03-06-2012
Just because you dont like it doesnt mean its dead, eits like very thread on here recently is either about how bad the charts are or Alexandra Burke.
Alrightmate
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by atko2:
“Music overall is generic and awful, there is nothing new out there and companies are scared to try something new. Radio and music tv are to blame though, they do play the same artists and sometimes the same songs again and again. Most music channels are the worst at it, how many times do you need to see the same top 40 in one week? Compare the charts from 10 years ago till now and see how many new entries there are in there. Seems like you cant even get a new entry into number one now but then again who really cares whats number one now? Think they need to hit the reset button on music and start again, take me back to the 90s where having a uk number one was one of the most important things in the world and having so many different types of music all in one chart”

I think what you say will ring true with many people.

I think another thing to take into consideration is the wisdom many people attain as they grow older.
As you say there's a time when we remember great songs in the charts at one time or another and it meant something to us.
But perhaps it's more of a case that we've changed and that we simply grew up. What seemed important to us at one time doesn't seem important anymore.

Now we may no longer see things like the record charts as we once used to do and now simply see them for what they actually are.
But we are possibly frustrated because we want to see the charts as something important again and how we once saw them, but in truth they were only ever what we imagined them to be and wanted them to be in the first place.
The importance of the record charts was probably always a figment of our own imagination that we thought to be real at the time.

It's probably like Santa Clause. Once you grow out of believing in a figment of your imagination like that things can never go back to how it was once you see something as it actually is in stark cold reality as opposed to what you want to be true.
The importance of the record charts is probably something like that which at first you believe in then eventually grow out of.
Coen
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“I think what you say will ring true with many people.

I think another thing to take into consideration is the wisdom many people attain as they grow older.
As you say there's a time when we remember great songs in the charts at one time or another and it meant something to us.
But perhaps it's more of a case that we've changed and that we simply grew up. What seemed important to us at one time doesn't seem important anymore.

Now we may no longer see things like the record charts as we once used to do and now simply see them for what they actually are.
But we are possibly frustrated because we want to see the charts as something important again and how we once saw them, but in truth they were only ever what we imagined them to be and wanted them to be in the first place.
The importance of the record charts was probably always a figment of our own imagination that we thought to be real at the time.

It's probably like Santa Clause. Once you grow out of believing in a figment of your imagination like that things can never go back to how it was once you see something as it actually is in stark cold reality as opposed to what you want to be true.
The importance of the record charts is probably something like that which at first you believe in then eventually grow out of.”

I think it's actually a case of the singles charts really being less important now than they used to be, because they are far less representative of the music that the entire population is listening to, all they represent now is the music that people who pay to downdown individual tracks digitally are listening to.

10-15 years ago anyone liked a particular song, they pretty much had to buy the single if they wanted to be able to listen to it at their leisure. Now, a lot of people don't bother - like me they just just listen to it on Spotify or Youtube or whatever.

So the singles charts no longer represent what people like me (and I suspect many other people do the same) are actually listening to; 10-15 years ago they still did.

(However I do still buy albums, in fact more than ever because I don't buy singles any more.)
Eric_Blob
03-06-2012
I agree with the general consensus of most people here.

The charts are TOO SLOW at the moment, and I think radio are mostly to blame for it. There's hardly any new entries each week (well actually, this week was not bad, with 8 new entries, but this is unusual these days, and having even more than 8 new entries in a week would be nice occasionally).

And we also recently had a song spend 18 weeks in the top 10 (Somebody That I Used to Know by Gotye). 18 weeks in the top 10 is just ridiculous, and that can't have happened since the early 90's now. The general public need to be exposed to more different songs.

And I do think radio is to blame for most of this. Most of the general public, when buying music, just buy their favourite song that they heard on the radio recently. And, unfortunately, it's quite a similar set of songs that people would've heard on the radio yesterday to what they would've heard in January, which leads to such a slow moving mainstream music scene.

I also agree that the charts aren't representative of what is most popular. There's a lot of songs that are clearly very popular, liked, and well-known (such as The Motto by Drake), that haven't even charted in the top 75.

Another thing is that most of the people buying music now probably aren't teenagers. I think the older generations (as in young adults) are responsible for most of the downloading.
madiain28
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by rickster1995:
“how is it the death of the uk charts, just because you dont like the music that is played does not mean its the death of uk charts. get a grip.”

Because that's my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion. I started the thread as I wanted other people's views. Sales alone show that the UK Chart is in Demise.
Obviously Your opinion is limited as the most intelligent comment you could make is Get a Grip. What would you like me to get a grip of?
mushymanrob
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“Probably because in earlier decades they were testing the water out more and seeing what would work then.”

But why then when they found something that worked/sold they moved on to the next fashion? Not sure, i think 'we' had more imagination, and maybe this politically correct education system in the uk has knocked the imagination out of people.
Quote:
“There's a very interesting interview with Frank Zappa on youtube somewhere where he speaks about music in general being better back then because the big fat cigar chomping record execs didn't have a clue about what 'the kids' would want so would work more on gut instinct and have a punt on more things that might work.
Then a generation of new execs came along who were younger and trendier and felt that they knew best about what 'the kids' would like because they felt that they were more like them.
That's his theory though, and I think he may be onto something there.”

That harks back to my nemsis S/A/W, who were the first big time producers to create the whole package, old men creating the music instead of facilitating what the kids created themselves.
Eric_Blob
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by madiain28:
“Because that's my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion. I started the thread as I wanted other people's views. Sales alone show that the UK Chart is in Demise.
Obviously Your opinion is limited as the most intelligent comment you could make is Get a Grip. What would you like me to get a grip of? ”

I do agree with what you're saying in general, but you were wrong about the sales bit. In the singles chart, however bad the generic dance domination is atm, sales are at an all-time high.
mushymanrob
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by madiain28:
“Because that's my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion. I started the thread as I wanted other people's views. Sales alone show that the UK Chart is in Demise.
Obviously Your opinion is limited as the most intelligent comment you could make is Get a Grip. What would you like me to get a grip of? ”

Thought sales were at an all time high now every way of buying records are being counted?...
Eric_Blob
03-06-2012
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“Thought sales were at an all time high now every way of buying records are being counted?...”

Yes, that's correct, the highest it's ever been. In the singles chart anyway. Sales are very low in albums at the moment.
StratusSphere
04-06-2012
I think (possibly) dance music is more produced at the minute than rock music because people have less money than they did before and are more likely to go to clubs where dance music is played than to gigs which are more expensive. Where I'm from anyway this is the case amongst most young people.

I'm turned off by current trends though. This year seems to be all about trying to recapture the songs that were big last year by blatantly rehashing them eg. Jessie J's Laserlight being just like Titanium and Save The World that were hits last year, or JLO's new single sounding similar to On The Floor. So I havent listened to modern mainstream music much this year on purpose.

Youtube is amazing though. There's so much out there on it, unsigned, amateur, foreign, unavailable for purchase off itunes. And with everyone having smarphones and headphones you can just listen to music on youtube anywhere.

Another thing I think about the economic downturn means there's probably a lot more music being bought second hand from charity shops and Amazon etc which also probably accounts for "falling sales figures". I for one wouldnt pay 11 quid for a new album if I could get it for 3 off the internet, unless I really liked the artist. And some people don't have the spare cash to have that option.

In answer to the question, is radio the death of uk charts? I would say that record companies panicking of losing all their target market make sure that if certain songs are on the radio all the time they'll reach casual listeners who only turn on for half an hour a day randomly. By the same token I suspect the radio also plays only a handful of popular songs in order to keep listening figures up by playing what they think the public wants to hear. Not the GENERAL public, but a specific and valued subsection, their specific target market, probably people of a specific age range.

Just some thoughts.
rickster1995
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by madiain28:
“Because that's my opinion and I am entitled to my opinion. I started the thread as I wanted other people's views. Sales alone show that the UK Chart is in Demise.
Obviously Your opinion is limited as the most intelligent comment you could make is Get a Grip. What would you like me to get a grip of? ”

you obviously don't know that much then, sales are not showing that the UK chart is in demise because they are at a high!. it makes me laugh you mock my intelligence when your pulling out random facts from thin air.
Eric_Blob
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by rickster1995:
“you obviously don't know that much then, sales are not showing that the UK chart is in demise because they are at a high!. it makes me laugh you mock my intelligence when your pulling out random facts from thin air.”

The reason is because around 2003-2005 time, sales were at an all time low, and the media made such a massive hoo-hah about it at the time, and how it kept getting lower and lower every few weeks.

But now that sales are at an all-time high, the media hardly ever mention it for some reason, so people probably have kept assuming they're still really low like a few years ago.
Aneechik
04-06-2012
Framentation of the market caused by the internet and the proliferation of music TV has resulted in cheaply produced, wide appeal shite clogging up the charts.

It's just the same as the fragmentation of television caused by extra channels and the internet has resulted in cheaply produced, mass appeal shite clogging up the airwaves. Nothing more, nothing less.

Record companies aren't going to put money into making great music for the paltry sales it generates nowadays, any more than TV channels are going to put money into producing great drama for the tiny ratings it will get.

The media is the same whatever form it takes; the more there is of it, the lower the quality.
mgvsmith
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“Probably because in earlier decades they were testing the water out more and seeing what would work then.

Over the decades it's probably become more scientific and spreadsheet driven where market forces drive competition more and record companies are now more inclined to invest in music that they feel they know for sure will appeal to the largest possible amount of people possible, and are more risk averse than record companies used to be. They can't be bothered taking risks that they feel have less chance of paying off so they will focus purely on what has been tried and tested before to maximize profit.

But I agree with what others say that music itself isn't dead. There really are people making great music and you really do have to have a look around a bit more.
”

The only difficulty with the production model in explaining why chart music is so crap, is that it underestimates the power and tastes of the audience. The 'punk' revolution in the 70s and more recently the triumph of getting 'Rage Against the Machine' to No. 1 showed that audiences have power to undermine the execs.

Saying there is good music out there is a little trite. That's always been the case and the charts have been better in the past. Radio stations are part of the production process and if they have become too conservative that is probably part of the problem. Unfortunately, the proliferation of channels (tv, radio and web) promotes niche audiences less likely to experiment in their listening.
mushymanrob
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by Eric_Blob:
“The reason is because around 2003-2005 time, sales were at an all time low, and the media made such a massive hoo-hah about it at the time, and how it kept getting lower and lower every few weeks.

But now that sales are at an all-time high, the media hardly ever mention it for some reason, so people probably have kept assuming they're still really low like a few years ago.”

recorded sales were at an all time low, i bet music fans 'getting' music was at a similar level to now.

Singles sales may look high atm, but it isnt a mark of quality when you compare them to retro charts.I doubt though if businesses care as long as they are raking it in.

The bottom line is....someones buying it.
soullover
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by Aneechik:
“Framentation of the market caused by the internet and the proliferation of music TV has resulted in cheaply produced, wide appeal shite clogging up the charts.

It's just the same as the fragmentation of television caused by extra channels and the internet has resulted in cheaply produced, mass appeal shite clogging up the airwaves. Nothing more, nothing less.

Record companies aren't going to put money into making great music for the paltry sales it generates nowadays, any more than TV channels are going to put money into producing great drama for the tiny ratings it will get.

The media is the same whatever form it takes; the more there is of it, the lower the quality.”

This.
more than at any time previously art for its own sake is cast aside for one purpose-making as much profit as possible. Record companies won't take a chance on anything because it's easier to go with the generic stuff fed to audiences that is safe and ensures they're kept in profit.
Audiences have never been less discernining-and that applies to TV (as you say) as well as music today,
MizManiac
04-06-2012
The demise of vinyl had something to do with it as well- 7inch and LP covers gave you a 'product', a CD just gives you a soulless piece of plastic- downloads just give you the tune. For me- the charts started to go c**p with the advent of ***trock. Every record in the top 40 nowadays seem to be records by an artist 'FEATURING' somebody else (namely Rihanna/Chris Brown/etc). Snoresville....
mgvsmith
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by Aneechik:
“Framentation of the market caused by the internet and the proliferation of music TV has resulted in cheaply produced, wide appeal shite clogging up the charts.

It's just the same as the fragmentation of television caused by extra channels and the internet has resulted in cheaply produced, mass appeal shite clogging up the airwaves. Nothing more, nothing less.

Record companies aren't going to put money into making great music for the paltry sales it generates nowadays, any more than TV channels are going to put money into producing great drama for the tiny ratings it will get.

The media is the same whatever form it takes; the more there is of it, the lower the quality.”


There is some truth in what you say about radio and music but not for TV. The last 10 years on US TV has seen some of the best TV ever made. That includes Ths Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Sons of Anarchy...the list goes on and on. That has largely been due to the influence of HBO. So where is the HBO of music?
abarthman
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“If they always have been, why were the charts from yesteryear much more varied?”

Were they, though? I was a fairly avid follower of the charts in the early eighties (I bought Smash Hits and the Record Mirror every week!) and I don't really see that much difference between the charts from back then and today's charts - mostly generic pop songs, a novelty track or two and a tiny handful of quality rock/alternative tracks.

The only thing that seems to have changed is the style of the generic pop songs.
starsailor
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by MizManiac:
“The demise of vinyl had something to do with it as well- 7inch and LP covers gave you a 'product', a CD just gives you a soulless piece of plastic- downloads just give you the tune. For me- the charts started to go c**p with the advent of ***trock. Every record in the top 40 nowadays seem to be records by an artist 'FEATURING' somebody else (namely Rihanna/Chris Brown/etc). Snoresville....”

I think also the demise of music on TV on the main channels as well. Top of the Pops, and Sat morning TV on ITV let huge numbers watch music, rather than it being ghettoised on satelite music channels.
gagafan2010
04-06-2012
I can see what the general consesus is here - and I agree, it's too slow.

Radio 1 is a bit better, but Kiss and Capital play the same handful of songs over and over (especially Capital), and it's never new tracks, it's the likes of Call Me Maybe, Sexy & I Know It, Next To Me, Domino and Starships that have spent ages in the chart anyway, and them playing the tracks is keeping them up there. Not saying I don''t like those songs (SAIKI is awful but I love the other 4), but if radio won't get out new songs and keep in them in the public mind, then of course songs will be frontloaded and sell not much, aside from the select few radio decide to play to death.

I know they only play 'what's available' but LOADS of songs are sent to radio and yet the stations just play the same.
Coen
04-06-2012
Originally Posted by mgvsmith:
“There is some truth in what you say about radio and music but not for TV. The last 10 years on US TV has seen some of the best TV ever made. That includes Ths Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Sons of Anarchy...the list goes on and on. That has largely been due to the influence of HBO. So where is the HBO of music?”

Thing is, none of those great TV shows attracted big viewing figures - HBO as a premium cable channel has always had tiny viewing figures compared to the other TV networks. So in terms of ratings "charts", none of the HBO stuff would ever have featured. It's bene the same old rubbish TV thats continued to attract the highest viewing figures.

So actually the "HBO of music" could well exist, because people are always saying that there is great quality music out there, it's just not popular with the masses and it's harder to find so it doesn't feature in the charts, just as those great HBO TV shows never featured in the ratings figures.
eugenespeed
04-06-2012
Do the charts actually matter?

If you like a certain band or a type of music, and it gets in the chart countdown, whoop-de-doo. If it doesn't, does it matter, you still like that song after all.

However, if you like a certain type of music because it's in the charts and no other reason, I would take a serious reflection on your life.
skunkboy69
04-06-2012
I'd rather go and watch unsigned bands than listen to the crap the charts has to offer.
Shadow2009
04-06-2012
Radio are killing the singles chart AND albums chart.

Singles chart - By only playing the same songs over and over, it means that we get the same songs in the top 10 every week and other songs that are much newer and fresher are struggling to sell because Capital and Radio 1 keep on playing the same old songs over and over. Capital play the same songs twice in an hour.

Albums chart - How are artists supposed to sell an album (a collection of their songs) when radio will only hammer one single by them? For example Rizzle Kicks, 'Mama Do The Hump' gets played non stop by Capital and the music channels and when they tried to release their last single 'Travellers Chant', nobody played it because they were STILL focusing on MDTH. People only hear one song by Rizzle Kicks, so why would they be interested in purchasing an album from them?
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