Me too, perhaps a spin off show like the Final 5, somehow, I feel entitled to know this after watching the whole series, as a reward and to give credibility to the claim their plans are not known until the end. I do not want all the details, I would be happy with an outline then how and why it would work.

Something I've not got my head around the last two series is why some of them haven't tried to get crowd funding. I fully understand that one of the cons of crowd funding is that you have to reveal your idea to the wider public, but common sense would say to keep an ace up your sleeve which you don't reveal straight away. I can also appreciate that the crowd funding option is risky if no one actually shares your vision as well, but you take the same risk going to a bank.

I think The Apprentice could also benefit from maybe accepting some unemployed people on it who have no formal qualifications. There's a guy I know who has had an awesome idea involving the internet and keeping children safe, and has a whole business plan sussed out which makes a lot of sense (I know because he actually asked me about what the set-up would actually cost and had a look at the business plan and how feasible it was to do what he was proposing). He's approached banks about trying to get some funding, but he's been told no purely because he has no formal qualifications, can't find any funding himself and can't patent anything. He does have a few aces up his sleeve to minimise the cost, but it just seems the banks aren't interested despite the fact he has a working prototype. I guess that people who are unemployed or in low paying jobs aren't the people that Alan Sugar wants to associate with though (although admittedly Lee McQueen didn't have much in the way of qualifications).

As far as Ricky winning goes, I actually had him in my top 3 along with Katie and Tom. He does seem a decent guy, and I guess the 'waffle' in his personal statement was just down to the amount of hype he has to generate in his spare time (although to be honest he did a pretty good job of psyching Tom when they were all sat around waiting to be interviewed with his comments).

I guess Alan Sugar does know the outlines of the business plans before they get to the end, but at the same time I guess the rubbish ones are weeded out before they even choose who will be in the series.

I also doubt the series can go back to what it used to be. Amstrad has been sold, Alan Sugar resigned from Viglen (it's now run by Claude who is one of the interviewers) and Amsprop is run by his son. That only leaves Amscreen, and seeing as two apprentices have already worked there, I doubt they'd be willing to take any more candidates. I think the show in it's current format reflects his wish to do more to help small businesses start up and grow.

Good post Iqoniq and some very valid points raised

I like your idea that shows like this should expand to include homeless and unemployed people,

Why not? None of us know why these people ended up in the position they did in the first place...and we also shouldn't judge them as 'untalented and useless' because of the position they've found themselves in.

This is what I hate about our society. The "them and us" attitude and the whole heirachy of "dog eat dog" attitude.

We've not stepped an inch, let alone a mile in these people's shoes, and to dismiss them as non-people is just plain wrong imo.

So I'm with you 100% in that the entrant's format should be wide open to include 'everyone' and not just a type set that certainly excludes these minorities from the selection process.

The final like last year was an anti climax to series and basically like the post said it just down to who has the best business plan and to be frank im no expert but that can't be the best four business plans they got so maybe lord sugar doesn't see them before hand.

however i do give exception to nick idea in that at least if was something differrent.

also i thought it was harsh on jade with her not including her grade for business as an N it obvious you would not put that in.

ricky has improved over series but it obvious if they were going on cv to enter the apprentice series it was for his bravado, if people talked like that for any other job they would not even get an interview.

they either need to change it back to the way it was or have a feature of the business plans during the tasks so get down to final five quicker then have a few weeks on each member setting up a business model which would not cost no more than the task and at least then can see which ones would work etc.

It boiled down to who had the best business plan because there was otherwise not much to choose from between the final four. That might not say good things about the calibre of candidates this year, but I don't think it's something inherent to the format - the person who had the best business plan last year was actually Susan, but in the interviews she proved herself to be naive and unable to admit when she was wrong, which (along with Helen's own mess-ups) handed victory to Tom.

Having said that, I do think ending the series with interviews is a bit of an anti-climax. Last Wednesday's task would IMO be a good model for the final task under this new format - set up a quick example of how your business would run, then pitch it to investors and industry experts, and then let Lord Sugar decide based on the feedback from them. Heck, his Lordship could even spread the risk out by finding other investors willing to chip toward the £250,000.

Of course it has to come down to the best business plan (or, in Tom Pellereau's case, existing business). That's what Sugar is investing in, not project management skills. I don't see how you can fairly test a plan on the basis of a routine task. On that basis, he would have invested in Helen last year - and her plan was rubbish.

Besides, in the old format the final task was meaningless really. Sugar didn't make up his mind based on it. He decided based on previous tasks and an assessment of any work they finalists did in the intervening trial period before the final was broadcast.

I've got a mind like a sieve, but wasn't Tom's business plan based on some fancy chair? Lord Sugar essentially rejected that business plan but decided to pick Tom and give him a £250k investment for something different ... something he'd already invented!

It struck me at the time that the choice wasn't based on the weekly performance, or on the business plan, it was just based on Lord Sugar's personal preference for a business partner! I'm not criticising, as I'd do the same, but it makes the "reality" aspect of the programme a bit of a joke!

Not really, if he knows who is winning it doesn't matter who the rest of them are

Well, if you want to get really specific, the investment wasn't for the chair or his nail files, it was for a holding company which would handle development and production of all Tom's products. Their initial focus was on the nail file since that was already somewhat established and would provide a solid cash flow for his future products - which, according to Tom's Twitter feed, will very likely include the chair some day, just not yet.

LS does see them before the start of the process.

Episode 1, 5 minutes 11 secs in, he clearly says that he has had a look at them.

On the more general point of the business plans, I couldnt believe how poor they were. Even Ricky's winning plan was another (allbeit niche) recruitment agency, and as another poster pointed out, there are loads of them in the market.

What this boils down to, is that Ricky's company will be trading soley on the fact he won The Apprentice, and he is partnered by Lord Sugar. I am far from expert, but surely there are agencies already extant in the science/biotech market now, so what is new about another player?.

I think it works better than the previous format. The final task always felt like a waste of time. I thought it was fun to see the candidates getting demolished in the interviews, and then interesting to see the interviewers discussing them afterwards.


I'm not sure how that would work. How can you quickly set up the largest call centre in the land? Or quickly produce the website that was going to use all the money? Or quickly get a £25m investment? As for pitching their business plans: that's what they did.

I can never understand why they do the interviews episode, it is so boring. I miss the last episode when some of the old candidates come back to help the final two. That was much better.

of the plans, i thought this.

recruitment agency. always money to be made. you only need a small piece of a big pie. james caan made plenty out of his agency, and so will ricky.

recipe food shopping. actually a good idea. dismissed by men, but men don't have to plan household menus, most of the time. something that lets you pre-plan menus for a week and have all the stuff picked and delivered must be a good idea. enough supermarkets are doing home shopping - so it will be a small add on for one of them to put something like this on their own sites. i bet nick could sell this idea to sainsbury/tesco etc as it stands. i think all of the men missed a trick. with this

high end wine investment. out of my expertise, and definitely more speculative. Tim seemed to be well-heeled, and I doubt if he needs Lord sugar's money, if paterthinks this is a runner

call centre was a non-runner

I think Lord Sugar made it seem like he was weighing it up, but in retrospect, I don't think it was close at all. once they lost Nick, Ricky was home and dry.

Let's be honest, this series like so many, pumped out by the TV companies, is now out of time and should be pulled as it has become very tired and almost predictable. We know the tasks are all staged managed and about 40 to 50% of what we see is boardroom shenaningans.
We've all been told what goes on in the background and on the edtiting desks and so whether I will watch a further series is very doubtful. It is a shame but inevitable when programmes like this become tired but that's how things go. Leave on a high (or nearly so), please. Sugar doesn't need the money does he?

And most on Dragons Den have sunk without a trace. Some on Dragons Den have been rejected because the business plans predict £145million in year 3 or that the running cost in the first 6 months are zero

The fact that Jade got to the final with a business plan Sugar didn't like shows that it's not the preview of the business plan he gets that decides who gets fired each week. This totally undermines the theory that the tasks are no longer relevant.

I think having the interview stage as the final is a much better way to finish the series.

Kind of funny that since the concept of the show changed the last couple of winners have had rather poor records throughout the process. Tom had a pretty awful record, losing a bunch of times, while Ricky lost a considerable amount and faced the boardroom in the bottom three more than anyone else.

In the past Sugar used to use some facts and figures to prove why he chose the winner. Infact I think almost every winner had a better win/loss record than at least the runner-up, or certainly had some other accolades in their favour - Lee was never brought back into the boardroom and Yasmina was the first person to win 3 seperate times as PM ect

No-one can argue with those statistics, but people can easily argue with recent winners because there's none of those facts to prove their worth, infact you've almost got to ignore that type of thing to consider them worthy.

I suppose at least this time the winner was based on the actual business plan, whereas last year was just very vague and seemed more of a farce.

Added to which there were no outstanding performances and the wins were more often than not subjective or flukes so even thatt evidence wasn't even as credible as it used to be. When your final 4 have done same things wrong that other people went home for, the show story makes no sense.

I think it was more than that. He homed in on communication skills for Jade, creativity for Gabi, sales for Laura, street trading for Adam internet ability for Nick and risk taking for Tom in his comments. That all looks like he may have read their proposals and taken them onboard as well as getting most of what they were about from their CV's. It also looks very coincidental that a wine trader gets a task on promoting wine, there's setting up internet site tasks for Nick and if Gabi is involved in art, there's a programme on art sales.

What I don't understand is how Jade could have thought for a millisecond that His Lordship would go for a business plan involving him and his good name in such an despised and parasitic industry as cold-calling.

Lets not forget that this is a TV programme and at the end of the day it is what makes good TV. They HAD to have a female in the final, they HAD to have an arrogant one, a trendy cute one, and they HAD to have a posh boy. I have been involved in working in TV and know that anything that can boost TV ratings will be done and it is so manipulated. Of course Sir Alan had made his mind up which Business Plans he wanted to go for and which ones he didnt, though I think Jade was able to go through due to her personality as she was more bubbly and in your face than the other women and made good TV. I personally didnt want Ricky to win as I couldn't stand him as he had a coldness behind his eyes that I didn't like and he was too arrogant for me. But, I knew deep down that he would win as Sir Alan liked him. Oh well I think it is time to say goodbye to the Apprentice now. :sleep:

From the limited information we were given about her proposal, it seemed like she had come up with a cunning plan to get people to register their details via websites; each website would be tailored to attract people looking to save money on a different service and when they registered their details they would agree to receive calls from her call-centre. So it looked like she believed she was creating a legal and (fairly) ethical framework within which her call-centre could find potential leads and pass them on to clients. She wouldn't be breaking TPS rules because she'd only call customers who agreed to be called.

The ethical problem was that she included debt management in the list of services and that is a really shady area for most people. Sugar could never have put his name, on national TV, to a project that could make money out of people's hardship.

You could see how her idea would work. its incredible that anyone would suddenly find a need for such services but thats how cold calling works.I always put my phone next to the TV and let these people talk to that - but obviously some people will talk to them. While enough do, its a logical proposition and she can pass on her leads for a fee. She saves the people who want to sell these things money finding potential customers and can offer a service . Its a big idea - but probably too costly to work . For his purposes its toxic to mention call centre, cold calling , or debt. - but its what she knows. If she just wants something and her focus is on getting to the final , it will do.

Tom's offering is far more toxic - investment banker, luxury good, hedge fund, gambling, virtual money, his reputaion, and potential for massive losses, all argue against keeping miles away from that. Tom however gets publicity - which is just what he needs to sucker people in to giving him the money.

Jade's business plan was very poor & badly researched. Especially for such a seemingly bright girl. But as far as I'm thinking,Sugar needed one girl in the final,but was never going to let one win. His recent history with lady winners is very bad.Pregnancy ,failed romances & his being slated by the last one (Stella?) in the papers will have brought his misogyny to the fore,and I can't blame him. It was always going to be a male winner,no doubt in my mind about that.

Possibly because it couldn't be shown on TV in the Apprentice type format without the TV channel having to give the advice that the business plan could be c**p and to seek independent financial advice.

Is it just money that the majority of contestants need or do they need someone to give them business advice or need to use the name of their business partner in order to leverage more funds.?