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Challenge & PickTV FTA |
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#251 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, E.Midlands & London
Posts: 7,694
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Because no matter what it is, Sky want you to PAY for the HD pictures.
They even use the lowest SD resolution for all but one of their channels to make HD look even better. That channel is Sky news BTW. 720 x 576i Everything else is at 544 x 576i |
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#252 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The great North of England!
Posts: 3,902
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Quote:
Because no matter what it is, Sky want you to PAY for the HD pictures.
They even use the lowest SD resolution for all but one of their channels to make HD look even better. That channel is Sky news BTW. 720 x 576i Everything else is at 544 x 576i |
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#253 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, E.Midlands & London
Posts: 7,694
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Sky News International is at 544 x 576i. That was a 4:3 channel but went widescreen finally but never changed resolution to match and it looks horrid.
But yes, Sky News in the UK is the highest res for SD in UK broadcasting and the only one at full res of the SD Sky channels. Id be more than unhappy if i was a Sky subscriber and got that crap PQ after paying them £20+ a month! The movies and sports channels..Not sure the res on them, but i believe its also low. |
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#254 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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I agree, C5 won't rent a second Txp unless they can make it pay with regionalising C5+1 in to five regions for extra ad revenue. They may choose to rent bandwidth from the BBC after the Olympics in the short term although I guess the Beeb want to cram the other three BBC1HD regions in to 10847V at some point? One would hope they'd get a second Transponder but with the BBC cash strapped can't see it. Maybe if C4 want to regionalise C4HD they could rent capacity to C5 longer term? Other than that C5 could do what C4 did and go on to Eutelsat 28A for a holding period.
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#255 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Roehampton, London
Posts: 293
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Quote:
Surely the BBC need a second transponder when they regionalise BBC One HD. 5 streams in 44 Mbps is moving in the Freeview direction.
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#256 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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Well video bit rates for sport are 8.5-9.5 Mbps but then you have to add on audio, which is about 0.65 Mbps. Bit rates would definitely suffer considering for stuff like sport (demanding content), all the regions would most likely be showing the same thing so statistical multiplexing won't help much. It won't be a big reduction but still.
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#257 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Roehampton, London
Posts: 293
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Quote:
Well video bit rates for sport are 8.5-9.5 Mbps but then you have to add on audio, which is about 0.65 Mbps. Bit rates would definitely suffer considering for stuff like sport (demanding content), all the regions would most likely be showing the same thing so statistical multiplexing won't help much. It won't be a big reduction but still.
Audio on BBC is .384Kbs for AC3 5.1, plus the audio described stream which need only be 64kbs mp2 as on Freeview, although I think it's higher at the moment. You have to add EPG data and firmware update streams etc. |
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#258 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, E.Midlands & London
Posts: 7,694
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They BBC closed down a few of their DSAT transponders and cut services and will be doing so again after the Olympics with the redbutton streams being cut from 4 to just one.
If they are planning another shift around of services for the launch of BBC One HD Scot, NI & Wales, so they dont have to go the route of getting another transponder, i wouldn't be surprised. The Txp they have with their HD channels on, could say bye to ITV, its already DVB-S2, so could carry 4 HD channels, more if they reduced them to 720p (God i hope not!) They have also talked of reducing their DSAT BBC One regions so would save space there too. |
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#259 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,095
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something very strange is find is Sky News is FTA but Sky News HD is pay i can't understand that at all
Now the majority of ITV HD channels being subscription is STRANGE...
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#260 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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Quote:
They BBC closed down a few of their DSAT transponders and cut services and will be doing so again after the Olympics with the redbutton streams being cut from 4 to just one.
If they are planning another shift around of services for the launch of BBC One HD Scot, NI & Wales, so they dont have to go the route of getting another transponder, i wouldn't be surprised. The Txp they have with their HD channels on, could say bye to ITV, its already DVB-S2, so could carry 4 HD channels, more if they reduced them to 720p (God i hope not!) They have also talked of reducing their DSAT BBC One regions so would save space there too. Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewLG
44/5 = 8.8Mbp/s Isn't that more than BBC HD channels have at the moment? Allowing for overheads about the same?
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#261 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Roehampton, London
Posts: 293
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I was wrong about this. The BBC's HD transponder is 40.6 Mbps, rather than the 43.9 Mbps used by transponders with subscription channels. That'd mean the average video bit-rate would have to drop to ~7.5 Mbps, which is the same as Freeview, but they can't encode progressively for progressive content like they can on Freeview (which saves bit rate), and again statistical multiplexing won't be as useful. Adding different delays to the channels helps a bit with instantaneous complexity increases (e.g. a quick camera movement) but doesn't help with longer-term complexity increases (sport for 2 hours on all the BBC One HD channels). I agree about delaying channels it helps but can't work miracles. It would be good if the providers pooled resources (at least the publicly owned ones). eg switch CH4HD's transponder back to DVB S2 and find space (easier said then done maybe) on a BBC mux with DVBS channels or ITV. If that's not possible get a new transponder and share the costs between them, maybe even get ITV and channel 5 involved. You could end up with sensibly populated transponders and maybe one with spare capacity awaiting Film 4 HD etc? Let's hope they find an alternative. |
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#262 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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Exactly. Only 3 transponders are needed for all the PSB HD channels right now (assuming 4 channels per transponder):
4x BBC One HD 1x BBC HD/BBC Two HD 4x ITV1 HD 1x STV HD 1x Channel 4 HD 1x Channel 5 HD I'm sure they could figure out a way to share 3 transponders between 4 companies. If Channel 4 or Channel 5 want to regionalise their HD channel then an additional transponder will be needed. UTV HD would also require an additional transponder. |
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#263 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, E.Midlands & London
Posts: 7,694
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Yeah they could kick off STV HD and ITV1 HD
There is an ITV1 HD region on the BBC txp but i would imagine thats not going to stay much longer Have to say, about the pooling of resources; As good an idea it is, they would all have different demands and standards, with the others not at all willing to accept the higher standards of someone else. BBC would have wants and so would ITV, Channel4 also and Channel5 too, they wouldn't be able to play nicely because one would want to be big daddy and the others would too. |
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#264 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Roehampton, London
Posts: 293
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Have to say, about the pooling of resources; As good an idea it is, they would all have different demands and standards, with the others not at all willing to accept the higher standards of someone else.
BBC would have wants and so would ITV, Channel4 also and Channel5 too, they wouldn't be able to play nicely because one would want to be big daddy and the others would too. ![]() When you think how heavily BBC and ITV are involved in Freesat and BBC and CH4 publicly owned maybe they (or someone) should set standards that "they" all have to adhere to so they just become "standard" SD or HD slots, all equal. If this were done we wouldn't have all these problems we read about here: "epg disapearing on xxxx box with channel x". "series recordings not working with channel y" etc, etc. Maybe just a dream but ........ Cameron and Clegg are in a coalition so anything could happen but hopefully with a bit more agreement than them!
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#265 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 502
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Quote:
Sky News International is at 544 x 576i. That was a 4:3 channel but went widescreen finally but never changed resolution to match and it looks horrid.
But yes, Sky News in the UK is the highest res for SD in UK broadcasting and the only one at full res of the SD Sky channels. Id be more than unhappy if i was a Sky subscriber and got that crap PQ after paying them £20+ a month! The movies and sports channels..Not sure the res on them, but i believe its also low. ![]()
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#266 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,531
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Quote:
All Sky HD channels are subscription.
Now the majority of ITV HD channels being subscription is STRANGE... ![]() ![]() BUT what is strange sky have not been able to keep ITV 1 encypted ![]() OH what it is not to have freinds in high places
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#267 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, E.Midlands & London
Posts: 7,694
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Quote:
So basically, every SD version of a Sky channel only broadcasts at 544x576i?
![]() ![]() Sky Living, Challenge, PickTV and so on, are all 544 x 576i. When Sky bought Living and whatnot from VM, when the playout was transferred to Sky, the resolutions dropped from 704 x 576i to 544 x 576i over night! Yet another slimey tactic by Sky. |
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#268 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South East
Posts: 909
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Pick TV & Challenge now listed under FTA channels:
http://www.a516digital.com/2012/07/s...tv-as.html?m=1 |
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#269 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,766
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Quote:
They BBC closed down a few of their DSAT transponders and cut services and will be doing so again after the Olympics with the redbutton streams being cut from 4 to just one.
If they are planning another shift around of services for the launch of BBC One HD Scot, NI & Wales, so they dont have to go the route of getting another transponder, i wouldn't be surprised. The Txp they have with their HD channels on, could say bye to ITV, its already DVB-S2, so could carry 4 HD channels, more if they reduced them to 720p (God i hope not!) They have also talked of reducing their DSAT BBC One regions so would save space there too. |
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#270 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: In bed watching TV
Posts: 837
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Is there a reason why the picture is wrong?
Watching Cleverdicks on Challenge, and there is a black bar at the bottom of the screen. Resolution looks even worse... |
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#271 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,460
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Quote:
Is there a reason why the picture is wrong?
Watching Cleverdicks on Challenge, and there is a black bar at the bottom of the screen. Resolution looks even worse... .
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#272 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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All of Sky's SD channels except for Sky News are in 544x576 so they look rather pants. It's to make their HD channels look even better in comparison (even though many of them don't have HD simulcasts anyway, such as Pick TV, Challenge and Sky2).
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