[Rolandh]

Originally Posted by popeye13

Dave is free on Freeview but a pay channel everywhere else.

I knew that, I just wasn't sure if it was part of the Entertainment packs or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or all of the remaining FTV Channels doesn't go FTA, as I can't see them joining the Entertainment Packs as they would'nt have done it from the start.

[Muzer]

Originally Posted by staticman

Sony TV
Sony TV+1
Sony Movie CH
Sony Movie CH+1
Viva
Motors TV
Liverpool FCTV

Don't forget C5HD

[davetech]

So not many left, - may not be worth bothering they might as well go all fta, - maybe it has something to do with the price increase coming soon on sky subs and reworking the packafes etc... think its 1st of September,

Sky may not be too bothered, as many channels don;t want to go free to view (which by the short list they don't) Sky may want to concentrate on other avenues like on demand - etc...

Or maybe they will de-activate the boxes at the end of you sub, it stead of allowing free to view and free to air! (could be for new customers)

you never know,

[M60]

Originally Posted by davemurgatroyd

It is no longer their NDS - It has been sold off to Cisco.

Yep, apologies there! Cisco overpaid for it in my opinion, Rupert used the dosh to pay off News Corp's phone hacking costs I guess!!

Originally Posted by davetech

So not many left, - may not be worth bothering they might as well go all fta, - maybe it has something to do with the price increase coming soon on sky subs and reworking the packafes etc... think its 1st of September,

Sky may not be too bothered, as many channels don;t want to go free to view (which by the short list they don't) Sky may want to concentrate on other avenues like on demand - etc...

Or maybe they will de-activate the boxes at the end of you sub, it stead of allowing free to view and free to air! (could be for new customers)

you never know,

I heard a whisper a year or so back that Sky were looking to phase out FSFS after DSO, I'd have thought when NDS was sold that there would be a contract put in place fixing costs for a period of time, otherwise Sky and NewsCorp would be daft as Cisco could have them by the balls holding them to excessive encryption costs. I'd have thought the way Sky like everyone to use their equipment they'd have stayed FTV too which is what surprises me so much!

[staticman]

Originally Posted by Muzer

Don't forget C5HD

Yep who could forget CH5HD
There's a couple of ITV1HD regions too, plus a few SD and a +1, which of course is mine

[M60]

Originally Posted by staticman

Yep who could forget CH5HD
There's a couple of ITV1HD regions too, plus a few SD and a +1, which of course is mine

All the ITV1HD and SD regions will go FTA in time, the SD one's probably soon considering they are now on 1N, the two ITV1HD's FTV on 1N too were probably some sort of deal tied in with Sky leasing ITV capacity for regionalising ITV1HD when we had no spotbeam capacity and only Astra 2D!

[staticman]

Originally Posted by M60

All the ITV1HD and SD regions will go FTA in time, the SD one's probably soon considering they are now on 1N, the two ITV1HD's FTV on 1N too were probably some sort of deal tied in with Sky leasing ITV capacity for regionalising ITV1HD when we had no spotbeam capacity and only Astra 2D!

Yes strange goings on at the moment
ITV1HD Granada FTA
ITV1HD Central FTV
both on the same transponder

[Winston_1]

Originally Posted by davetech

Or maybe they will de-activate the boxes at the end of you sub, it stead of allowing free to view and free to air! (could be for new customers)

Don't think they can do that. Even if they could removing the card would stop them as they could no longer address an individual box.

Apart from the fact that the boxes don't belong to Sky and any such action would amount to vandalism of personal property.

[daniel99]

the Sky subscribers own the set top boxes so it would be an act of vandalism

[popeye13]

It doesn't stop them disabling the record function on Sky+ boxes and make you pay £10 a month if you don't subscribe but want to record and no one calls that an act of vandalism!?
Never expect Sky to play fair and nice, disabling the boxes after a sub ends would be a perfect BskyB action

[Muzer]

But what would it accomplish? In the short-term, people would just get Freesat boxes, funding the competition and possibly causing more channels to join Freesat. In the long-term, it would be harder for Sky to get new customers - the people who would have had FSFS boxes and essentially be constantly bombarded with Sky advertising (in the form of all the channels they can't get being clearly in the EPG) will no longer be bombarded with it - moreover, a subscription would then be more than just a phone call away, they'd need a new box, card and probably installation as well.

[Rolandh]

Originally Posted by Muzer

But what would it accomplish? In the short-term, people would just get Freesat boxes, funding the competition and possibly causing more channels to join Freesat. In the long-term, it would be harder for Sky to get new customers - the people who would have had FSFS boxes and essentially be constantly bombarded with Sky advertising (in the form of all the channels they can't get being clearly in the EPG) will no longer be bombarded with it - moreover, a subscription would then be more than just a phone call away, they'd need a new box, card and probably installation as well.

And the Installers would probably be told to Install new dishes at a cost to make even more money.

Or potential re-subscribers would be tempted to go to VM and get Tivo, or be tempted to get an entusiasts box like the Openbox and get an illegal sub via a C/S Server.

Roland

[davetech]

Originally Posted by Winston_1

Don't think they can do that. Even if they could removing the card would stop them as they could no longer address an individual box.

Apart from the fact that the boxes don't belong to Sky and any such action would amount to vandalism of personal property.

It is a free box, and yours but it is a gift but that does not mean they have to continue support after you un-subscribe - So yes I agree you own the box but sky paid for it.

They still own the software on your box

Also If it was in the contact - for new customers that the box will stop working if you end contract and can only be re-activated if you subscribe - up to now you only get a free box if you do subscribe

[ds_reader]

Originally Posted by Rolandh

I knew that, I just wasn't sure if it was part of the Entertainment packs or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or all of the remaining FTV Channels doesn't go FTA, as I can't see them joining the Entertainment Packs as they would'nt have done it from the start.

EU law would have to be broken...

Sky+ boxes are not sold a recorders they are sold as receivers with additional services. The recording service is ENABLED via a subscription.

If the Sky+ service was generally ENABLED without a subscription Sky would be liable for some very hefty tax bills.

[M60]

Originally Posted by ds_reader

If the Sky+ service was generally ENABLED without a subscription Sky would be liable for some very hefty tax bills.

So do Freesat, Humax, Panasonic et el all suffer hefty tax bills from their recorders? Lets be honest, this is just Sky playing tough as they know the churn rate would increase if they made recording free.

It's a good job that nice phone you get on contract from your mobile operator continues to work once your out of contract and terminate from the network. Could you imagine if they disable the phone book/contacts feature unless you re-subscribed! That's the equivalent of what Sky do with their STB's.

[popeye13]

Sky always have and always will behave in a very sneeky under-hand way.
I don't they know how to do anything other-wise tbh!

Im curious as to what these tax bills would be too?

[ds_reader]

Originally Posted by popeye13

Sky always have and always will behave in a very sneeky under-hand way.
I don't they know how to do anything other-wise tbh!

Im curious as to what these tax bills would be too?

http://www.tax-news.com/news/Sky_Def...____48887.html

[davemurgatroyd]

Originally Posted by ds_reader

http://www.tax-news.com/news/Sky_Def...____48887.html

The same reason that many satellite receivers are sold as PVR - merely fit your own HDD to a box imported without a HDD fitted.

[peter05]

Originally Posted by ds_reader

http://www.tax-news.com/news/Sky_Def...____48887.html

I have read this link and it seems it is just an import tax that sky,Try not to pay, Where I expect other's like HUMAX do pay it, and so should not affect sky charging there hefty £ 10 fee to use there sky + box without subsciption after all it would be a one of tax on the cost of the box not a monthly tax sky would have to pay ?

[KianD]

Originally Posted by peter05

I have read this link and it seems it is just an import tax that sky,Try not to pay, Where I expect other's like HUMAX do pay it, and so should not affect sky charging there hefty £ 10 fee to use there sky + box without subsciption after all it would be a one of tax on the cost of the box not a monthly tax sky would have to pay ?

Humax manufacturers units in the EU (Northern Ireland), so there is no customs duty liable in the first place.

[davemurgatroyd]

Originally Posted by peter05

I have read this link and it seems it is just an import tax that sky,Try not to pay, Where I expect other's like HUMAX do pay it, and so should not affect sky charging there hefty £ 10 fee to use there sky + box without subsciption after all it would be a one of tax on the cost of the box not a monthly tax sky would have to pay ?

As above Humax are made in the EU this only apllies to receivers/PVRs manufactured outside the EU and is why a majority of PVRs manufactured outside the EU such as Dreamboxes etc are now supplied without a HDD fitted. Sky have argued successfully that the Sky boxes are not supllied as working PVRs and require a subscription to function as such which makes it a service and not a hardware feature.

[soulboy77]

Originally Posted by peter05

I have read this link and it seems it is just an import tax that sky,Try not to pay, Where I expect other's like HUMAX do pay it, and so should not affect sky charging there hefty £ 10 fee to use there sky + box without subsciption after all it would be a one of tax on the cost of the box not a monthly tax sky would have to pay ?

So Sky are being quite cute really by not having recording functionality enabled as standard.

[peter05]

Originally Posted by soulboy77

So Sky are being quite cute really by not having recording functionality enabled as standard.

Still not a hefty tax, and it is a one off tax, so no reason why someone should pay £10 a month; Or they could have them made in the EU, Like in Northern Ireland

[peter05]

Originally Posted by soulboy77

So Sky are being quite cute really by not having recording functionality enabled as standard.

Yes cute is one word

[davemurgatroyd]

Originally Posted by peter05

Still not a hefty tax, and it is a one off tax, so no reason why someone should pay £10 a month; Or they could have them made in the EU, Like in Northern Ireland

Yes but why should they - their prime business is not as hardware suppliers (although they are forced to sell them to non subscribers by EU regulations), they are Pay TV providers who provide heavily subsidised boxes to view their programming. Why should they pay a protectionist EU tax set up to subsidise French farmers and fishermen.