DS Forums

 
 

VHS video recorders


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-06-2012, 23:05
flashgordon1952
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: brentwood essex
Posts: 3,634

I am a fan of these units ,especially the s-vhs ones which was capable of 400 lines compared with 260 for the standard vhs. Wonder if any of the forum members are still useing them and are they still for sale "new or recon".
Yes they was old hat but more than capable of recording 4 hours of tv (compared with 2 hours standard on a DVD) and the advance (for the 90s) search button was really good and also capable of not recording those horrid adverts..
flashgordon1952 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 06-06-2012, 23:11
ironjade
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 8,651
How did you manage to avoid recording the ads?
ironjade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 23:14
gomezz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,594
Fortunately the ads are no longer broadcast on analogue TV round here so do not get recorded by my VHS video recorder.
gomezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:15
AidanLunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,045
How did you manage to avoid recording the ads?
Press "pause" during "record".
AidanLunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:40
-GONZO-
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kent
Posts: 8,954
Press "pause" during "record".
This used to work great, well unless of coarse you forgot to un-pause after the advert had finished.
I used to record plenty until our player started to chew the tapes all the time. I've got a load of tapes in my garage with WWF Wrestlemanias, SummerSlams ect that I recorded from SKY throughout the 90's.
Thank goodness for PVRs.
-GONZO- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:44
ironjade
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 8,651
Press "pause" during "record".
OIC. I thought you had some whizzy machine which skipped them.
ironjade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 22:03
Orbitalzone
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sussex
Posts: 12,173
Using index marks on some VHS decks allowed you to easily skip between programmes or ads - you could set your own index marks or the recorder made them at each new recording, so pressing the index forward button 3 times would fast forward and find the 3rd index point (your 3rd programme etc)

It was quite useful.....
Orbitalzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 22:08
jasonjimbob
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East Wales
Posts: 887
I still use my JVC SVHS machine, excellent performer, but I lost the original remote control, I also got a double decker VHS machine made by Orion, Very reliable, and no problems with it from day 1, plus my VCR/HDD/DVD recorder made by Toshiba,
jasonjimbob is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 22:12
jasonjimbob
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East Wales
Posts: 887
This used to work great, well unless of coarse you forgot to un-pause after the advert had finished.
I used to record plenty until our player started to chew the tapes all the time. I've got a load of tapes in my garage with WWF Wrestlemanias, SummerSlams ect that I recorded from SKY throughout the 90's.
Thank goodness for PVRs.
I used to record all the WWF/E PPV's from Sky Sports in the 90's too, before they ended up on Sky box office, I still got my tapes and play them back regular, a couple of tapes have broken though.
jasonjimbob is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 09:23
56up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Posts: 779
How did you manage to avoid recording the ads?
Even with a modern PVR you still record the ads. You just skip though them on FF just as I used to with my VHS recorder. On some machines you can time slip too. Some modern PVRs offer 30 times fast forward, a tape would never stand that, or even be read at that rate.

The problem with tapes was and still is linear access. If you had several programmes recorded on a single tape then finding a particular recording was at best long winded and at worst difficult.

DVD recorders or HDD PVRs offer random access and naming of programmes as well as the ability to record dozens of programmes. Also my panasonic DVD /HDD recorder allows me to copy programmes from the HDD to the DVD which I can then rip to mpeg4 format and transfer to iTunes and thus to my iPad which we happily watched on the plane last week.

I love the versatility of the new technology and would not go back to using a VHS for all the tea in China.
56up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 09:25
56up
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Posts: 779
I am a fan of these units ,especially the s-vhs ones which was capable of 400 lines compared with 260 for the standard vhs. Wonder if any of the forum members are still useing them and are they still for sale "new or recon".
Yes they was old hat but more than capable of recording 4 hours of tv (compared with 2 hours standard on a DVD) and the advance (for the 90s) search button was really good and also capable of not recording those horrid adverts..
My Panasonic offers 4 hours of recording on a single DVD at a quality far superior to even S-VHS (525 lines). Even at 6 hours it offers superior quality to a VHS tape
56up is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 10:47
Soundbox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The garden of earthly delights
Posts: 4,512
I use VHS daily and used 3 tapes to record the Jubilee celebrations. No chance of failed hard drives there - with the tapes looked after they will last a long time.

Having grown up with VHS it feels natural to use it into the future too and the quality is really quite decent - especially S-VHS as you say. I tried hard disk but having the programme stuck on the hard drive put me off using it more - plus the digital compression artefacts.
Soundbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 12:11
ironjade
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 8,651
I use VHS daily and used 3 tapes to record the Jubilee celebrations. No chance of failed hard drives there - with the tapes looked after they will last a long time.
Until they get wrapped around the inside of the VCR. Back them up now.
ironjade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 14:53
2Bdecided
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4,391
I use VHS daily and used 3 tapes to record the Jubilee celebrations. No chance of failed hard drives there - with the tapes looked after they will last a long time.
Shame it's less than SD quality and the machines to play them will all be dead soon enough.

I have plenty of home movies on S-VHS, and just hope that my VCRs will last long enough to get them all copied to digital.

I suppose that fear can be tempered by the fact that, copied or not, I'll never get around to watching them. That's the problem with VHS - you can just keep stacking up all the stuff you never get around to watching! A finite sized HDD means you have to delete it in the end, watched or not. (you could add more HDD capacity, but that's just admitting defeat / obsession / hoarding!)

Having grown up with VHS it feels natural to use it into the future too and the quality is really quite decent - especially S-VHS as you say. I tried hard disk but having the programme stuck on the hard drive put me off using it more - plus the digital compression artefacts.
but all possible sources today are digital (unless you live in one of the few remaining pre-switch over regions) - a proper PVR doesn't add any more artefacts to the broadcast. I suppose VHS will hide them by blurring the picture so much.

VHS will look shocking on the flatscreen TV you'll have to buy eventually.

Cheers,
David.
2Bdecided is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 20:10
Kodaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,006
I've got a load of tapes in my garage with WWF Wrestlemanias, SummerSlams ect that I recorded from SKY throughout the 90's.
A word of warning- if you still value those tapes get them out of your shed *now* and take a good look at them to confirm that they're not mouldy and/or damaged.

As I found out when researching replies in this thread and this thread, sheds, attics and the like, with their exposure to temperature extremes in the summer and the winter, damp leading to mould and the like are *not* good for tapes.

If your tapes are in good nick, consider yourself lucky and don't push your luck further. And get them transferred to DVD ASAP!
Kodaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 21:11
coachtrip_fan99
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,127

If your tapes are in good nick, consider yourself lucky and don't push your luck further. And get them transferred to DVD ASAP!
ive yet to find any recordable dvds that would last as long / be as durable as a vhs tape though!
coachtrip_fan99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 22:28
Soundbox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The garden of earthly delights
Posts: 4,512
Until they get wrapped around the inside of the VCR. Back them up now.
I do just thay infact - edit the highlights to DVD - and stash the tapes.

Shame it's less than SD quality and the machines to play them will all be dead soon enough.

I have plenty of home movies on S-VHS, and just hope that my VCRs will last long enough to get them all copied to digital.

but all possible sources today are digital (unless you live in one of the few remaining pre-switch over regions) - a proper PVR doesn't add any more artefacts to the broadcast. I suppose VHS will hide them by blurring the picture so much.

VHS will look shocking on the flatscreen TV you'll have to buy eventually.

Cheers,
David.
VCR breakdown is an issue - however I do have some skills (and parts) to keep them going as well as possible. My hard drive seems to re-encode the FreeView signal so disks made don't look that great. To be honest, all the recent recording equipment leaves me cold, what with me being enthusiastic about well made, good performing items - and most of the stuff lining the shelves having under-rated PSU's, cheap capacitors and built-in problems.

Yes, I have heard that tape looks poor on modern TV's (a seperate subject) - but I use my VCR's whilst living in hope of a technology with the build quality, simplicity and ease of use of my Panasonic NV-F65 whilst delivering sinscilating picture quality, longevity of recordings and a rock solid A-D converter. Oh, and no on screen menus please.
Soundbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:37
captainkremmen
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: DAVEVILLE, Daveshire DA1 1VE
Posts: 33,621
Modern PVRs such as those from Humax, Digitalstream and others do not re-encode the income Freeview or Freeview HD signal, they record the raw stream. Older combined HDD/DVD recorders often do re-encode the streams, although even here newer models like those from Panasonic do not re-encode as they also record the raw streams. They only re-encode if required when it comes to transferring to disc. If you want to avoid re-encoding when it comes to disc then I would consider archiving to high quality dual layer DVD blanks, or better yet, to BluRay, where the extra capacity compared to 4.7Gb blank DVDs means less likely to need re-encoding, or you can choose a higher quality mode if some re-encoding is still required.

I was a huge fan of S-VHS, I still have both a JVC machine and a Panasonic. However, for day to day recording there is no way I'd go back to S-VHS, the picture quality and ease of use of a modern PVR far, far outweighs that of VCRs. But then, I'm not really one for archiving as I do that only very occasionally. When it comes to longevity it's certainly true that VHS/S-VHS will last a very long time, as long as you look after the tapes and don't keep them in the garage or loft. They really don't like extreme temperature changes which can lead to mould for example. I don't think DVDs will last as long, especially the cheaper makes, but having said that I have a number of self recorded DVDs that are now approaching 10 years old, from when I paid £799 for my first (single speed) Pioneer DVD recorder for my PC, and they still play perfectly and exhibit no signs of the dreaded laser rot. Of course at the time, they were high quality and relatively expensive blank discs. I doubt most modern bulk discs that cost a few pence each are as good quality these days, but only time will tell.If you really do want to archive to DVD and keep them for a long time I'd say be careful about the discs you use. Some brands do offer guarantees and have tougher coatings etc., but of course they are more expensive.

Very, very few VHS machines are now being made, only a few from budget manufacturers now seem to be made as it looks like all of the big companies have dropped them, so in that respect as time goes on it's going to get more and more difficult to keep your collection of VHS tapes going.
captainkremmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 09:42
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,792
Modern PVRs such as those from Humax, Digitalstream and others do not re-encode the income Freeview or Freeview HD signal, they record the raw stream. Older combined HDD/DVD recorders often do re-encode the streams, although even here newer models like those from Panasonic do not re-encode as they also record the raw streams. They only re-encode if required when it comes to transferring to disc.
Essentially PVR's record the direct digital data, so give identical quality to the broadcast - DVD recorders re-encode, so give lower quality than the original.

'Generally' combined DVD/HDD recorders also re-encode, except where it's a two tuner unit (which is essentially a proper PVR with a DVD recorder added on).

So basically there are two types of DVD/HDD - the most common is a DVD recorder with an HDD added, the less common (and more expensive) is a PVR with a DVD recorder added.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 18:34
David (2)
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: S.West England.
Posts: 18,037
def dont store tapes (of any kind) in a shed. As said above. For tapes to last for ages you would need a room with air con and climate control set to the same temp all the time (eg, 20C).

While you may not like DVD, or the fact that you dont gain any quality when transfering vhs - dvd, they do last longer, but that said dvdr/rw is not perfect. The surface is exposed and thats the problem. Also, am i the only one that thinks dvds (and very likely BluRay discs) will be obsolete in not too many years....meaning no equipment being produced that can playback the discs. So this might be the time to consider a vhs-PC transfer kit. A modern pc with a big hard drive to capture the vhs content. You can then make further backups of the main pc drive onto other hard drives, in case the main drive should fail.
David (2) is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 13:44
Kodaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,006
While you may not like DVD, or the fact that you dont gain any quality when transfering vhs - dvd, they do last longer
Now *that* is not something I would necessarily agree with.

Yes, it's true that I was the one who recommended transferring old tapes to DVD- the VHS will *already* be 20+ years old, possibly already in a state of serious decay- and there's only one copy.

Once you have it on DVD, you have a "new" copy- and more importantly, because it's digital, it's easy to make as many "perfect" backup copies as you like. *But* I would not bet my life on any given recordable DVD lasting another couple of decades, as there have been some serious questions raised about this. I'd recommend making at least one backup copy, storing that safely in good conditions and *only* using a high-quality brand (like Verbatim). Also possibly consider having a copy backed up to hard drive or other media (see below).

Also, am i the only one that thinks dvds (and very likely BluRay discs) will be obsolete in not too many years....
There's some truth in this- the blank DVD market is obviously in slow decline, and that hasn't really been replaced by recordable Blu-Ray. There's definitely a move towards streaming and playing files back directly from flash or hard drive media.

That said, I don't think discs will die overnight as commercial Blu-Rays can hold up to 50 GB of data. That's still a lot to download, even with modern broadband.

meaning no equipment being produced that can playback the discs. So this might be the time to consider a vhs-PC transfer kit. A modern pc with a big hard drive to capture the vhs content. You can then make further backups of the main pc drive onto other hard drives, in case the main drive should fail.
This isn't as big a problem as you think- if you've already created your own DVDs (without the copy protection of commercial discs), it's fairly easy to copy their contents directly to a PC or laptop hard drive anyway- menu and all. (Personally, I'd keep a backup copy of each disc this way anyway).

You can even extract each individual title on the disc as an individual MPEG file if you want to- VideoRedo lets you do that, for example.
Kodaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 14:01
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,792
Now *that* is not something I would necessarily agree with.
You should because it's true

Perhaps what you're considering is that you don't continue to lose quality as the tapes deteriorate further? - but you don't 'gain' any quality by transferring them.

Obviously it's a good idea to transfer them, as you're going from a long obsolete format to one that's still only currently heading that way.

Biggest problem really is that there's no 'modern' replacement for VCR or DVD, with DRM issues killing off long term home recording.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 20:18
Kodaz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,006
While you may not like DVD, or the fact that you dont gain any quality when transfering vhs - dvd, they do last longer
Now *that* is not something I would necessarily agree with.
You should because it's true
I think you've misunderstood which part I disagreed with. I was disagreeing with David(2)'s assertion that "[DVDs] do last longer [than VHS]", hence why I cut the quote there.

Given that some recordable (i.e. dye-based) CDs and DVDs have proven to have very questionable longevity since they first appeared in the late 90s, I certainly wouldn't be happy telling someone that (as a general rule) a DVD-R would last longer than a VHS.

(It's assumed here that we're talking about recordable DVDs. Commercial pre-recorded discs are stamped rather than dye-based, so probably won't suffer from the same issues, but as it was home recording under discussion it's only the recordable discs we're bothered about here).

Perhaps what you're considering is that you don't continue to lose quality as the tapes deteriorate further? - but you don't 'gain' any quality by transferring them.
As mentioned above, this wasn't my disagreement. Of course, you don't gain quality, but if the material is valuable it should be transferred anyway.

That said, the point *is* worth bearing in mind if the material you're planning on transferring is already available in the same or similar form via a commercial release anyway (assuming it hasn't been edited to shreds).

Although some commercial DVDs can be very mediore, it's unlikely that they'd be any worse than transfers of 20-year-old VHS tapes. Plus, given the low price of pre-recorded DVDs these days (especially in box sets of older material) vs. the time needed to transfer and tidy up a videotape, it really isn't worth the time and hassle for most people.


Biggest problem really is that there's no 'modern' replacement for VCR or DVD, with DRM issues killing off long term home recording.
Though there is a problem with obnoxious DRM on some devices, I'd say that this is a different issue to the "replacement" for DVD.

If there's no *direct* replacement, it's more because of a paradigm-shift, where the file is what's important, and what it's stored on isn't per se, i.e. the same material can be transferred between (file-based) DVD disc, solid state media or a hard drive and played back in a number of ways.
Kodaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2012, 19:07
AidanLunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,045
OIC. I thought you had some whizzy machine which skipped them.
A few of the last apparently could do it - how they do it is a mystery to me as I only learnt about proper VHS decks - i.e. everything before 1993/94.
AidanLunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2012, 19:15
AidanLunn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,045
Until they get wrapped around the inside of the VCR. Back them up now.
Very good, you understand how VHS works.

The tapes are designed to withstand the sort of punishment that the machines give it when it's working properly.
AidanLunn is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:56.