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Old 05-05-2016, 08:05
LakieLady
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Is someone sabotaging them? Or are we to assume that they're playing up because Jazzer isn't there, and eventually Tom will relent and beg him to come back?
That's an interesting notion. Pigs are very intelligent, and I can well imagine that they miss the person that usually looks after them in the way that dogs do and show their displeasure by acting up.
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Old 05-05-2016, 19:28
fredster
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That's an interesting notion. Pigs are very intelligent, and I can well imagine that they miss the person that usually looks after them in the way that dogs do and show their displeasure by acting up.
It's getting worse and worse, is this really what happens? I should think any abused wives listening to this must be terrified of saying or doing anything to help them out of their misery.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:05
An Thropologist
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Flippin heck I am onl;y 3 minutes into the Omnibus and alrready I am ready to strangle Pat.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:32
sam_gee
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It's getting worse and worse, is this really what happens? I should think any abused wives listening to this must be terrified of saying or doing anything to help them out of their misery.
If they are terrified out of stabbing their abusive other half I'd have thought that was a good thing.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:36
sam_gee
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Flippin heck I am onl;y 3 minutes into the Omnibus and alrready I am ready to strangle Pat.



Pat has been appalling all week - but as you're still listening I won't spoil it for you with any details
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:36
An Thropologist
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Is Duncan Elliot married to Hazel Woolley? Or is it just castings obsession with identikit actors?
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:38
An Thropologist
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Pat has been appalling all week - but as you're still listening I won't spoil it for you with any details
No spoil away. I have the kitchen knife poised by the radio and am trying to figure out roughly where to stab the speaker to miss Kirsty!

This Pat is unrecognisable.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:43
sam_gee
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Is Duncan Elliot married to Hazel Woolley? Or is it just castings obsession with identikit actors?
I thought they sounded identical, and they have similar personalities too. How horrid is Miranda? Poor Justin. Maybe he and Lillian will get together - I don't know what it is with her and married men
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:50
An Thropologist
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Ahhh Tom and Helen. I am welling up.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:04
gomezz
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Why do people listen to the omnibus edition which has 15 minutes chopped out rather than the daily editions back to back using catch up or podcasts? Can still listen to it as your Sunday morning treat.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:07
sam_gee
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No spoil away. I have the kitchen knife poised by the radio and am trying to figure out roughly where to stab the speaker to miss Kirsty!

This Pat is unrecognisable.
Well, if you're sure...

There is much wailing at the end of the court hearing. I know it's hard for Pat - she hasn't had it easy with her children - but she could have shown a bit of strength and dignity; it would have been much better for Helen.

Tom and Tony have been great. Tom telling Helen that if she doesn't buck her ideas up Rob will end up with Henry and the new baby will shock her into action I hope. I honestly think it's good that Pat won't be allowed to see Helen - Pat is too hysterical to think clearly and Helen needs people round her who can think clearly.

I'm still confused about Pat blaming herself for becoming a prosecution witness - could she have refused to speak to the police if she'd known that would happen, and insisted she'd only appear as a defence witness I can't really see what she could do for the defence - apart from a very biased character reference.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:21
Anne_Cameron
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Well, if you're sure...


I'm still confused about Pat blaming herself for becoming a prosecution witness - could she have refused to speak to the police if she'd known that would happen, and insisted she'd only appear as a defence witness I can't really see what she could do for the defence - apart from a very biased character reference.
And as she didn't actually attribute any changes in Helen's behaviour to Rob, thinking it was her illness returning - she could be a liability for the defence I would think.

I'm not sure, but I think at the stage of the proceedings they were at (before the Court Plea Hearing) Pat could have refused to go and make a statement as she went there voluntarily after the police asked her. She could have held out until they cited her as a prosecution witness I suppose.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:03
seejay63
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Why do people listen to the omnibus edition which has 15 minutes chopped out rather than the daily editions back to back using catch up or podcasts? Can still listen to it as your Sunday morning treat.
There isn't anything chopped out of the omnibus. The daily editions are 12 minutes once you take into account the news, so you have 72 minutes of programme, which is what the omnibus is.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:04
seejay63
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She could have held out until they cited her as a prosecution witness I suppose.
She could have refused to go until they summonsed her. I wonder if, in the meantime, she'd agreed to be a defence witness whether the police could over-ride that an insist that she become a prosecution witness?
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:25
LakieLady
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She could have refused to go until they summonsed her. I wonder if, in the meantime, she'd agreed to be a defence witness whether the police could over-ride that an insist that she become a prosecution witness?
I was wondering that. As a general rule, neither side would want a witness that could undermine their case - a "hostile witness". But by making her a prosecution witness, they've prevented her from having contact with Helen or Anna, so she's not privy to the defence case.

Just because she's been deemed a prosecution witness doesn't mean they'll have to call her to give evidence. As her only testimony that could help the prosecution is Helen's "I'll kill him" remark, and she could have a lot to say that would help the defence (Helen's increasingly fragile state of mind and Rob's getting more and more control, suggesting she stops driving, muscling in on the shop etc), they may opt not to call her.

It's a pity we haven't heard the police discussions with the CPS really!
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:29
An Thropologist
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Why do people listen to the omnibus edition which has 15 minutes chopped out rather than the daily editions back to back using catch up or podcasts? Can still listen to it as your Sunday morning treat.
Are you sure it has 15 minutes chopped out? I didn't think it did. I save myself for the weekend omnibus because I listen while I do my housework and it makes the jobs less of a chore to have something I like to distract me from the cleaning. Sometimes I do listen in the week which takes the shine off a bit on Sunday, but I have never noticed any absent material.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:35
An Thropologist
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Well, if you're sure...

There is much wailing at the end of the court hearing. I know it's hard for Pat - she hasn't had it easy with her children - but she could have shown a bit of strength and dignity; it would have been much better for Helen.

Tom and Tony have been great. Tom telling Helen that if she doesn't buck her ideas up Rob will end up with Henry and the new baby will shock her into action I hope. I honestly think it's good that Pat won't be allowed to see Helen - Pat is too hysterical to think clearly and Helen needs people round her who can think clearly.

I'm still confused about Pat blaming herself for becoming a prosecution witness - could she have refused to speak to the police if she'd known that would happen, and insisted she'd only appear as a defence witness I can't really see what she could do for the defence - apart from a very biased character reference.
Pat needs a slap. Actually Pat needs to be returned and this imposter taken away. Pat would not have trotted over to the police like that. She's not stupid, she has a militant history and will know better than most that the police will guide interviews etc.

But even that is nonsense. It is portraying it as the police fishing to get only the information they want to make THEIR case. And I know in some high profiles cases that has happened and I know its what many people think the police do, but it really isn't. Their job is to investigate all angles and they would be as interesting in finding evidence of provocation or coersion as Anna will. The police are (supposed to be) in the business of getting a 360 view to find out if the public interest is served in prosecuting. It is not their role to stitch up a candidate.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:39
sam_gee
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There definitely used to be little bits chopped off the omnibus - if I hadn't listened much in the week and listened to the omnibus as well I did notice missing bits, but I'm not sure now as I either listen in the week or catch up on the iplayer thing.

If people only ever listened to the 2pm repeats would they miss one episode? I don't think the Friday evening episode is repeated - but I could be wrong.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:41
sam_gee
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Pat needs a slap. Actually Pat needs to be returned and this imposter taken away. Pat would not have trotted over to the police like that. She's not stupid, she has a militant history and will know better than most that the police will guide interviews etc.

But even that is nonsense. It is portraying it as the police fishing to get only the information they want to make THEIR case. And I know in some high profiles cases that has happened and I know its what many people think the police do, but it really isn't. Their job is to investigate all angles and they would be as interesting in finding evidence of provocation or coersion as Anna will. The police are (supposed to be) in the business of getting a 360 view to find out if the public interest is served in prosecuting. It is not their role to stitch up a candidate.
She really does
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:48
An Thropologist
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I was wondering that. As a general rule, neither side would want a witness that could undermine their case - a "hostile witness". But by making her a prosecution witness, they've prevented her from having contact with Helen or Anna, so she's not privy to the defence case.

Just because she's been deemed a prosecution witness doesn't mean they'll have to call her to give evidence. As her only testimony that could help the prosecution is Helen's "I'll kill him" remark, and she could have a lot to say that would help the defence (Helen's increasingly fragile state of mind and Rob's getting more and more control, suggesting she stops driving, muscling in on the shop etc), they may opt not to call her.

It's a pity we haven't heard the police discussions with the CPS really!
Yes that is another piece that makes no sense. The police are stacking u prosecution witneses who no matter what their testimony as to the facts - what they saw, heard etc are neverthless firmly in Helen's camp. The defence lawyers will easily deal with their factual accounts in cross examination.

I sat and listened last weekend with my best friend who is a lawyer. She spent half the show cursing the radio for inaccuracies and artistic licence concerning the legal veracity of the story line.
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Old 08-05-2016, 13:35
trevor tiger
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Yes that is another piece that makes no sense. The police are stacking u prosecution witneses who no matter what their testimony as to the facts - what they saw, heard etc are neverthless firmly in Helen's camp. The defence lawyers will easily deal with their factual accounts in cross examination.

I sat and listened last weekend with my best friend who is a lawyer. She spent half the show cursing the radio for inaccuracies and artistic licence concerning the legal veracity of the story line.
The police are top notch soap police If you watch any TV soap this is exactly how the police operate, like they already know the guilty party and go hell for leather to prove it. They are invariably very, very stupid. Mind Pat is trying her very hardest to compete for most stupid. She had already experienced the police twisting what she said to suit their preferred version of the story and she had gone out of her way to employ a really good and sympathetic Barrister for Helen but when the police asked her to come in again she decided with no sensible expectation really, that it was so she could give Helen's side of things I suppose she forgot that she has no idea what Helen's side is as she didn't notice anything and was in fact very much on side with Rob most of the time.

Did she really think the police were just going to let her wax lyrical about what an amazing daughter Helen was and how she could never hurt a fly therefore it must be Rob's fault somehow I'm almost pleased the police played the stupid woman like this because she does actually deserve it. All she had to do was speak to the barrister before hand and none of this would have happened but instead she decided what the police wanted and what was best to do legally. God with allies like Pat Helen really doesn't stand a chance
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Old 08-05-2016, 13:35
cika
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Pat needs a slap. Actually Pat needs to be returned and this imposter taken away. Pat would not have trotted over to the police like that. She's not stupid, she has a militant history and will know better than most that the police will guide interviews etc.

But even that is nonsense. It is portraying it as the police fishing to get only the information they want to make THEIR case. And I know in some high profiles cases that has happened and I know its what many people think the police do, but it really isn't. Their job is to investigate all angles and they would be as interesting in finding evidence of provocation or coersion as Anna will. The police are (supposed to be) in the business of getting a 360 view to find out if the public interest is served in prosecuting. It is not their role to stitch up a candidate.
I don't think Rob's quite up to it yet.

I can't fathom why Pat's being portrayed in the way she is. The only thing I can think to justify it is that she's supposed to still be unconvinced that Rob's a bad 'un and that Helen was manipulated until his manipulation backfired on him. That would at least go some way to explain why she's not standing up to Ursula. It's certainly tedious, whatever it's meant to be.

Looks as if they're going for a fairly realistic timeline for the trial date. I wonder if that's so that Helen will have served whatever sentence she's given for whatever she's eventually sentenced for on remand and can leave court triumphant, if Helen can ever manage such a positive emotion! They don't seem keen to let the storyline go in a hurry.

I always listen to the omnibus rather than during the week. Afaik there isn't anything cut out.
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Old 08-05-2016, 14:31
seejay63
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I sat and listened last weekend with my best friend who is a lawyer. She spent half the show cursing the radio for inaccuracies and artistic licence concerning the legal veracity of the story line.
So despite the writers' claims that they are being as accurate as possible, it's just not true then. Quelle surprise!

Looks as if they're going for a fairly realistic timeline for the trial date. I wonder if that's so that Helen will have served whatever sentence she's given for whatever she's eventually sentenced for on remand and can leave court triumphant, if Helen can ever manage such a positive emotion! They don't seem keen to let the storyline go in a hurry.
But if she's found guilty would they let her have Henry back, or would Rob and his poisonous mother get to keep him? They're quite a toxic family all round, Rob and his parents. I wonder what his brother is like, or whether he keeps well away from them?
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Old 08-05-2016, 18:09
cika
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So despite the writers' claims that they are being as accurate as possible, it's just not true then. Quelle surprise!



But if she's found guilty would they let her have Henry back, or would Rob and his poisonous mother get to keep him? They're quite a toxic family all round, Rob and his parents. I wonder what his brother is like, or whether he keeps well away from them?
If that was the scenario she could be found guilty of a lesser charge - there's no dispute that she did stab him, and even if it was under provocation and with Rob giving her the knife, I don't think she'd be allowed, either in reality or by TPTB at the Beeb, to get off scot free, especially as she stabbed him more than once, didn't she (it seems like a long time ago!)? So a lesser charge, Helen pleads guilty, a short sentence because of the circumstances, with time off for good behaviour and time served on remand, and Helen, Henry and baby Titch live happily ever after until her next disastrous relationship.
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Old 08-05-2016, 19:12
seejay63
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Objection Your Honour - he's leading the witness!
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