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The Archers!
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LakieLady
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by Chelseafan101:
“Anyone reckon that the judge will order the jury to acquit?”

I don't think they're allowed to order an acquittal, but they can include very hints in their summing up.
postit
08-09-2016
Rob's finished in Ambridge now, isn't he?
Welsh-lad
08-09-2016
Glad 'Rob the Rapist' is all over the Echo.
Susan has probably had some kind of syncopal seizure in the 'villij shaawp'

Hearing Rob rage at his father so helplessly was glorious. The wheels are coming off the wagon... and Bruce is helping

But please pleeeeease no retrial
Welsh-lad
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“The weird thing is ever since that episode I have had a hankering for a Shiphams paste sandwich. Also reminded me of something called 'sandwich spread' which I remember quite liking even if it did look like finely chopped vomit.”

Sandwich spread

/|\

Tasted like rancid coleslaw with bits of stomach lining in it.

Shippams paste I still like sometimes, on a cracker with some cheese
DiamondDoll
08-09-2016
I gave up watching all the soaps on television for many reasons.
One reason was that storylines were often leaked and I knew or correctly guessed what was going to happen long before it did.

Cross my heart and promise I didn't see that one coming tonight.

Wow!!!
DiamondDoll
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by LakieLady:
“I don't think they're allowed to order an acquittal, but they can include very hints in their summing up.”

Don't know what I did before google.


Definition of Acquittal

Noun

Judgment, as by judge or jury, that a defendant is not guilty
To release or discharge from a fault or crime
Being found or proved not guilty

http://legaldictionary.net/acquittal/
dippydancing
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by DiamondDoll:
“I gave up watching all the soaps on television for many reasons.
One reason was that storylines were often leaked and I knew or correctly guessed what was going to happen long before it did.

Cross my heart and promise I didn't see that one coming tonight.

Wow!!!”

And the beautiful irony is that here we are on social media discussing a plotline that was brought to a halt by social media The circle of life, or something...
Welsh-lad
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“The beautiful irony that here we are on social media discussing a plotline that was brought to a halt by social media The circle of life, or something...”

Eeeeek it's like one of those Russian doll thingys
Anne_Cameron
08-09-2016
The judge could discharge the 'tweeting' juror and continue with the remaining eleven jurors after he has consulted with Anna and the CPS. If both sides agree that is the most likely outcome.
dippydancing
08-09-2016
And if the judge decides to replace the tweeting juror, I am currently available, don't own a smart phone (hippy-Luddite) and not remotely biased.

Cue re-run of 12 Angry Men...
fredster
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by sam_gee:
“Yes, Rob seems so desperate to please him it's quite sad. I bet some boys with a dad like that go the other way though, and abhor violence to women.

I can't imagine what it must have been like for Arsula trying to keep the hateful man sweet for so long.”

But Rob is the same with Henry.
fredster
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“Sandwich spread

/|\

Tasted like rancid coleslaw with bits of stomach lining in it.

Shippams paste I still like sometimes, on a cracker with some cheese ”

We used to call sandwich spread........chopped sick
guinevre
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by Anne_Cameron:
“The judge could discharge the 'tweeting' juror and continue with the remaining eleven jurors after he has consulted with Anna and the CPS. If both sides agree that is the most likely outcome.”

Not any sort of a legal eagle but there seem to be various possible scenarios:
1. Continue with one juror barred.
2. Mistrial and new trail ordered

But my current favourites are:
3. Mistrial and new trial ordered but Prosecution decide to review evidence and then drop the charges.
4. Prosecution drop charges immediately on grounds that little prospect of conviction

The CPS barrister did not miss Rob's little aside about 'having been certain' that Jess would not appear for the defence. He certainly hasn't taken to Bruce and must be worrying about how Rob will hold up during his rebuttal session.

The CPS will only proceed with a case if (a) there is evidential sufficiency and (b) it is the public interest. The evidence now looks completely different to how it looked at the start of the trial.

We have TWO Prosecution witnesses who will clearly be classed as hostile witnesses.
We have an allegation of rape from Helen (that I would think the Police are duty bound to investigate)
We have a Defence witness (Jess) who was clearly about to make a second allegation of rape.

To proceed with a Prosecution, the CPS have to believe there is a reasonable prospect of conviction. Can the CPS barrister really believe that there is? With this jury or another - after the last two days of evidence?
Welsh-lad
08-09-2016
Originally Posted by guinevre:
“Not any sort of a legal eagle but there seem to be various possible scenarios:
1. Continue with one juror barred.
2. Mistrial and new trail ordered

But my current favourites are:
3. Mistrial and new trial ordered but Prosecution decide to review evidence and then drop the charges.
4. Prosecution drop charges immediately on grounds that little prospect of conviction

The CPS barrister did not miss Rob's little aside about 'having been certain' that Jess would not appear for the defence. He certainly hasn't taken to Bruce and must be worrying about how Rob will hold up during his rebuttal session.

The CPS will only proceed with a case if (a) there is evidential sufficiency and (b) it is the public interest. The evidence now looks completely different to how it looked at the start of the trial.

We have TWO Prosecution witnesses who will clearly be classed as hostile witnesses.
We have an allegation of rape from Helen (that I would think the Police are duty bound to investigate)
We have a Defence witness (Jess) who was clearly about to make a second allegation of rape.

To proceed with a Prosecution, the CPS have to believe there is a reasonable prospect of conviction. Can the CPS barrister really believe that there is? With this jury or another - after the last two days of evidence?”

Great clarity there - I hadn't considered all those outcomes. I don't want her acquitted on a technicality though or because prosecution gives in. I want the jury foreman to stand up and say 'Not guilty'.
I think Helen needs that too.
dippydancing
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by fredster:
“But Rob is the same with Henry.”

I think Rob is similar with Henry but not the same; I think he is a slightly better father than Bruce -not hard, admittedly- but a worse husband.
dippydancing
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by Welsh-lad:
“Great clarity there - I hadn't considered all those outcomes. I don't want her acquitted on a technicality though or because prosecution gives in. I want the jury foreman to stand up and say 'Not guilty'.
I think Helen needs that too.”

But if that doesn't happen, maybe you'll get equal satisfaction from an ensuing prosecution for rape.


Great summing up from guinevre there too
tiv
09-09-2016
That was one hell of a curve ball and all the better for not having been shamelessly trailed beforehand, unlike the TV soaps.

BTW - If The Archers is considered a soap they should scoop the soap awards for this!
Welsh-lad
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by tiv:
“That was one hell of a curve ball and all the better for not having been shamelessly trailed beforehand, unlike the TV soaps.

BTW - If The Archers is considered a soap they should scoop the soap awards for this!”

Won't happen - not with the vested interests and shower of luvvies involved with that.
fredster
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by guinevre:
“Not any sort of a legal eagle but there seem to be various possible scenarios:
1. Continue with one juror barred.
2. Mistrial and new trail ordered

But my current favourites are:
3. Mistrial and new trial ordered but Prosecution decide to review evidence and then drop the charges.
4. Prosecution drop charges immediately on grounds that little prospect of conviction

The CPS barrister did not miss Rob's little aside about 'having been certain' that Jess would not appear for the defence. He certainly hasn't taken to Bruce and must be worrying about how Rob will hold up during his rebuttal session.

The CPS will only proceed with a case if (a) there is evidential sufficiency and (b) it is the public interest. The evidence now looks completely different to how it looked at the start of the trial.

We have TWO Prosecution witnesses who will clearly be classed as hostile witnesses.
We have an allegation of rape from Helen (that I would think the Police are duty bound to investigate)
We have a Defence witness (Jess) who was clearly about to make a second allegation of rape.

To proceed with a Prosecution, the CPS have to believe there is a reasonable prospect of conviction. Can the CPS barrister really believe that there is? With this jury or another - after the last two days of evidence?”

There is an hour of the Archers on Sunday so, something is going to happen.
fredster
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“I think Rob is similar with Henry but not the same; I think he is a slightly better father than Bruce -not hard, admittedly- but a worse husband.”

There have been instances of Rob being quite nasty to Henry. I would have loved to have heard Henry say when being questioned " daddy told me to say ". If Helen is acquitted will she have to go to court to get Henry back and keep Jack?
dippydancing
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by fredster:
“There have been instances of Rob being quite nasty to Henry. I would have loved to have heard Henry say when being questioned " daddy told me to say ". If Helen is acquitted will she have to go to court to get Henry back and keep Jack?”

I agree that Rob's been horrible to Henry- I just think it's implied that Bruce has been even worse to Rob. The only difference being, Brursula never had to argue over custody of him.

As for Helen getting Henry back, I like to think that would happen automatically if (when!) she's acquitted, but the wheels of justice may be more complex than I understand. (but that's not hard )
DiamondDoll
09-09-2016
The first item on R4's Woman's Hour today is about the trial.

''Criminal defence barrister Jeannie Mackie gives her verdict. ''

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07rkhsc
Welsh-lad
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“I agree that Rob's been horrible to Henry- I just think it's implied that Bruce has been even worse to Rob. The only difference being, Brursula never had to argue over custody of him.

As for Helen getting Henry back, I like to think that would happen automatically if (when!) she's acquitted, but the wheels of justice may be more complex than I understand. (but that's not hard )”

I can't believe how that could not happen. Rob is his stepfather by legal document only.
He has only been in Henry's life for a couple of years.
Against this you have stacked in Helen's favour:
- being his natural mother
- being his sole parent throughout his infanthood
- having an extensive support network of family and friends in Henry's home village

Any court is going to take that into serious account.
grauniad
09-09-2016
All this teasing, that's what they do. If Helen is not acquitted, I pledge to pose naked in my local shopping centre. You would all love that (not).
dippydancing
09-09-2016
Originally Posted by DiamondDoll:
“The first item on R4's Woman's Hour today is about the trial.

''Criminal defence barrister Jeannie Mackie gives her verdict. ''

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07rkhsc”

Thanks for this. It answers my question of "Would Rob be automatically arrested for the rape allegations?" the answer here being no - fresh formal complaints would have to be made by Helen and/or Jess.
And other fascinating insights- that the barrister criticises the way the writers have written Anna's handling of the trial, but that Helen's initial reluctance to explain her situation is very common behaviour. It seems that overall the writers have done a good job.
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